[CPEX] Hakumen Gameplay Discussion

[BlackYakuzu94]

So many people dropped him sadly. Makes it harder to learn anything new without having the game.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Raziul]

Another inspiring comeback for you all to enjoy.

One of the reasons why I love this character.

[BlackYakuzu94]

Yea that's right, show Jin who's  boss.

[Raziul]

I'd be lying if I didn't say that the fact it was Jin definitely made it sweeter.

[Moblin]

Apparently Film is back to playing Hakumen in 2.0?

 

Apparently he's 17th Dan?

[BlackYakuzu94]

Good, now get some actual footage of him :V

[Schneider-X]

Where is the source for that?

[Moblin]

http://sp.bbcp.ac/ranking_view.php?mode=exe&type=psr_rank

 

Gackt.

 

 

Google translates Hakumen as White Surface, but I'm pretty sure that's him.

 

17th Dan, got 14th at the tournament?

[Moblin]

Remember that Mugen tech vid a couple weeks ago?  I got a translator to look it over.  

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHNtFKb5oa4

 

Text: 

1. BBCP 2.0 Hakumen OD Combos by Nikki (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHNtFKb5oa4)
2. OverDrive Yukikaze > Mugen > Shippu > delay Zantetsu(1) > Kishuu > step Agito > Hotaru > Tsubaki > 5C > Renka(1) > Shippu (charge level 2) [8868]
3. 0:46 - A powerful, stable combo that can starts from the corner. Out of all the combos in this video, this is the easiest one to shoot for.
4. 0:50 - Notes on Shippu > delay Zantetsu(1): Depending on the opponent's height after Shippu, you'll have to adjust your Zantetsu delay timing.
5. 0:55 - If the opponent is fairly high in the air following the Shippu, you'll need to delay the Zantetsu more. If they're lower, you'll need to delay less. Missing the timing will cause the second hit of Zantetsu to whiff.
6. 1:02 - Notes on 5C > Renka(1): If the opponent is fairly high in the air when you hit them with the OD Yukikaze at the start of the combo, they may be able to tech after getting hit with Renka(1).
7. 1:06 - It tends to happen a lot if they're around the height of Ragna's Blood Scythe (see picture)
8. 1:10 - This is what it'll look like (see video example)
9. OverDrive Yukikaze > Mugen > Shippu > 6C > Shippu (charge level 2) > delay Zantetsu(1) > Kishuu > step Agito > Hotaru > Tsubaki > 5C > Shippu [8974]
10. 1:50 - As of this writing, this is the biggest damage combo you can do out of the corner. Even though it's harder than the last combo, you only get 106 more damage. orz
11. 1:56 - Notes on OD Yukikaze (out of corner): If the opponent's high in the air when you land the OD Yukikaze, you won't be able to finish the combo.
12. 2:08 - Failure example 1
13. 2:27 - Failure example 2
14. 2:48 - Notes on Mugen > Shippu > 6C: Do this section as fast as possible. You'll have to visually confirm the end of both moves and follow up instantly. If either move is even a little behind, the 6C will drop.
15. 2:54 - Here are success/failure examples for the 6C pickup:
16. 3:00 - 6C pickup success
17. 3:12 - 6C pick up failure
18. 3:27 - Notes on Mugen > Shippu > 6C: Also, if the opponent is airborne when you land OD Yukikaze, you'll have to delay follow-ups to 6C depending on their vertical position following Shippu.
19. 3:33 - If they're around the height seen in the previous failure example the combo will drop, but if they're around Inferno Divider height (see picture) it should be fine.
20. 3:41 - Notes on delay Zantetsu(1): If you don't delay Zantetsu, there are times when the first hit will whiff but the second hit will connect (see picture).
21. 3:50 - If this happens, omit the Kishuu and the rest of the combo should work (with a minor hit to damage).
22. OverDrive Yukikaze > Mugen > Gurren > delay Shippu > delay Zantetsu(1) > Kishuu > step Agito > Hotaru > Tsubaki > Renka(1) > Shippu (charge level 2) [8976]
23. 5:10 - As of this writing, this is the most damaging combo you can do midscreen. It's easier than the harder corner combo and does 2 more damage.
24. 5:15 - Notes on Gurren > delay Shippu: Warning #1: If the projectile from Shippu doesn't hit the opponent before they wall bounce, the sword will hit instead and the combo will drop.
25. 5:20 - You can determine whether the Shippu will land or not based on the opponent's position during the super flash (see picture).
26. 5:26 - Here's what this part looks like when it succeeds/fails:
27. 5:29 - Shippu delay failure
28. 5:37 - Shippu delay success
29. 5:52 - Notes on Gurren > delay Shippu: Warning #2: Depending on the opponent's height after Gurren, their distance after getting bounced by Shippu will change, requiring you to change your Zantetsu timing.
30. 5:57 - What follows are comparisons of bounce distance post-Shippu
31. OverDrive Yukikaze > Kishuu > 6C (charge level 2) > Mugen > Shippu > Kishuu > 5C > Zantetsu(1) > Renka(1) > Kishuu > Step Agito > Tsubaki > 5C > Shippu [8718]
32. 6:45 - An easy, high-damage midscreen combo. If you're having trouble with the Gurren > Shippu pickup in the previous combo, try this one.
33. 6:51 - Notes on 6C (charge level 2) > Mugen: If you don't land the 6C at a low enough height, you won't have enough meter from Mugen to finish the combo.
34. 6:56 - Also, since you won't gain any meter immediately following the 6C, the Mugen will be slightly behind where it's supposed to be.
35. 7:01 - As a result, it's possible you won't be able to land the Shippu post-Mugen even if you get a fatal counter. Keep that in mind.
36. 7:07 - Notes on Step Agito > Tsubaki: If you insert a Hotaru between the Step Agito and Tsubaki in this section, the opponent will be able to tech out after Tsubaki. Do not use Hotaru here under any circumstances.
37. 7:12 - Also, even if you omit Renka(1) before the Kishuu, doing Step Agito > Hotaru > Tsubaki will still allow the opponent to tech.
38. 7:17 - Failure example
39. OverDrive Yukikaze > Kishuu > 6C (charge level 2) > Mugen > Shippu > Kishuu > 5C > Zantetsu(1) > Kishuu > Step Agito > Tsubaki > 5C > Shippu [8283]
40. 8:01 - Bonus: A low-effort, high damage combo. Something of a compromise. Higher reliability, and despite having 10% more scaling and no charged Shippu, it still deals over 8000 damage.
41.  
42. 8:29 - Thanks for watching!

 

 

[Schneider-X]

I might make a video on Mugen once CPE hits just to help people with shippu wave timings and anything else I might find useful.

[Moblin]

I think it would be great to get a consensus on all the Mugen starters, setups, and the optimal combos once CPE hits.  It seems like Mugen is viable, although niche.  Previously it was both unviable and niche.  

 

A video addressing common links in those combos would be very useful.

[Spark]

Played a bit of CPE Hakumen at Sakura-con this weekend.  Just listing some thoughts and confirmations.

 

- Counters don't activate at all when catching projectiles.  So even if they stand infront of you and you counter their projectile oki nothing happens.

- Doing a special after countering is ok for punishing stuff that was out of reach before, like if you catch a dead spike you can cancel into gurren to punish where as before they were too far away for the regular counter to work.

- No jump cancel on enma feels really weird, not sure if it's worth using mid screen.

- j.2A > jc > j.2C being mostly gone takes some getting used to.

- 2A > 6A on crouching hit is pretty handy.

[Wander]

So even if they stand infront of you and you counter their projectile oki nothing happens.

The main gameplay related reason i chose to main hakumen is now completely gone    

[Moblin]

Don't have a lot of time for analysis today, so I'll just post this up to discuss: https://youtu.be/rpPyqmFsvh0?t=4m16s

 

Film is doing jump, late j.b, j.a for a double overhead that seems to also stuff anti-air startup and keep a blockstring going if it doesn't hit.

 

It reminds me of the Airdash j.b, j.a mixup you can do already but much easier to do in neutral and pressure.

[Raziul]

Based on the height of his j.B and with how few active frames it has, I wonder how it'd play out if the opponent didn't stand up and it whiffed. Would the j.A come out in time to catch them crouching?

[BlackYakuzu94]

Wouldn't it be a fuzzy guard then? Just like how'd you J.B, jump cancel into a second j.B to catch them trying to crouch low.

 

EDIT: Actually, that's exactly what it was. Notice the red "!" when Ragna got hit by J.A, which means he was trying to crouch.

[Raziul]

Round start OD confirm for more than half your opponent's health. GG's Hakumen.

 

https://youtu.be/7EkxgOproPc?t=35m15s

[BlackYakuzu94]

So I've decided to experiment with that fuzzy guard that Film used and see what I can do with it. So far, I know you can confirm into a combo for knockdown off it. So far I got:

 

 

F+J.B>J.A(This is the confirm if the fuzzy guard is successful)>5B>623A~A(JC)>J.C, 5C, 5C>214A>5C. Does about 2k.

 

 

I'll see what else I can come up with in the near future.

[mAc Chaos]

Round start OD confirm for more than half your opponent's health. GG's Hakumen.

 

https://youtu.be/7EkxgOproPc?t=35m15s

I noticed after a Gurren he never ended it in a 3C to get knockdown. He just would hop over and try to 2A after they standing teched. Maybe you can't link 3C into it anymore.

[Raziul]

Only thing that comes to mind for me might be the recovery on 3C, and him wanting to be able to close sooner.

[Schneider-X]

@ Blackyakuzu

 

No, what Film did was not a fuzzy guard. 

 

A fuzzy guard is where the opponent blocks the first move standing and then proceeds to crouch block but gets hit by a move that would normally whiff on a crouching opponent. In the case of the falling j.B and then rising j.B fuzzy guard, the second j.B hits because their hitbox was still considered standing by the game engine even though the player had inputted a crouch block.

 

For a j.B, j.A at that height it would hit regardless of if they were crouch or stand blocking.

 

This post on srk gives more information on the subject.

 

http://forums.shoryuken.com/discussion/173178/fuzzy-guard

 

@ Mac

 

I think I've seen it in a couple match videos before that you can still link 3C after gurren.  He probably just wanted to apply more pressure.

[BlackYakuzu94]

@ Blackyakuzu

 

No, what Film did was not a fuzzy guard. 

 

A fuzzy guard is where the opponent blocks the first move standing and then proceeds to crouch block but gets hit by a move that would normally whiff on a crouching opponent. In the case of the falling j.B and then rising j.B fuzzy guard, the second j.B hits because their hitbox was still considered standing by the game engine even though the player had inputted a crouch block.

 

For a j.B, j.A at that height it would hit regardless of if they were crouch or stand blocking.

 

This post on srk gives more information on the subject.

 

http://forums.shoryuken.com/discussion/173178/fuzzy-guard

 

 

I understand that, but the opponent was still trying to crouch after the J.B and the counted as an overhead as noted by the red exclamation point. I was wondering of it would still count under those circumstances. That said, I may have mis-read the mechanics behind it.

 

 

EDIT: Ok yea, it is  a Fuzzy Guard, because the Ragna went to crouch after J.B and got hit by J.A when trying to block low. It doesn't matter if the move normally whiffs or not, if the opponent tries to go from 4 to 1 after blocking a jumping normal, the second hit should hit them if they try to block low.

[Schneider-X]

No, it does not fit the definition of a fuzzy guard.  Every fuzzy guard is a mixup but not every mixup is a fuzzy guard.

 

Edit: Errol is correct about a fuzzy not needing to be a mixup.

[Errol]

it doesn't have to be a mixup. the same premise works with moves that don't have mixup properties, that can be blocked high or low.

[BlackYakuzu94]

That doesn't make any sense...if it hits them on their hitbox when they're trying to crouch, that technically falls into the qualifiers for a fuzzy guard. The only thing it really doesn't fit is that J.B>J.A will hit hit regardless. It still forces the opponent to guess which way to block after blocking J.B.