[CPEX] Hakumen Gameplay Discussion

[mAc Chaos]

Yeah sure.

 

I wonder if I should make new MU threads or just keep the old ones.

[BlackYakuzu94]

Well you really only have to make one technically speaking :V

[Moblin]

We could consolidate the MU threads and delete/resummarize posts that were the most important.  And then put those in the opening posts for the new threads.    Haku is pretty unchanged mechanically except for drives.  I could volunteer to do that mid-May.  

 

Haku does seem to have a cool new BnB route with the AD stuff, similar to the last game we called "EX."  

[BlackYakuzu94]

Yea, I like his corner carry routes too. I don't know why most JPN players don't use it more often, its not exactly hard to execute.

[The_undercover_beret]

Here are the things I tested so far, I'll edit it little by little.

 

- 5C > OD > 6A works.

- 5C AA or CH > Zantetsu(1) > Kishuu > Walk 6A > 6B > 5A > 5A > Guren > IAD J.B > J.2A > 5C > 3C (5477) works on Ragna midscreen, most likely still character specific, couldn't get neither 5A > 5B nor 5A > 2B so far.

- On normal hit 5C > Guren > Zantetsu > 2C > J.B > J.2A > jc > J.B > J.2A > Agito (5205) and with Zantetsu(1) > Kishuu (5353), however the 6A > 6B routes generates one more magatama than both of those routes.

- 5C AA > Kishuu > 6A > 6B > 5A > 5A > Guren > IAD J.B > J.2A > 5C > 3C (3280)

- For every combo tested so far J.B > J.2A > jc > J.B > J.2A > Agito deals as much damage as  J.B > J.2A > jc > J.2C > Agito.

- It feels like 5A has less hitstun?

- Hotaru feels like it's a S-starter now? Hotaru > AD J.2C > 6A > 6B > 5A > 5B or J.B, used to be valid in 1.1 but I couldn't do it so far, it could be because of the distance though. 

- In the corner Backthrow(1) RC > OD > 6C no longer works, backthrow(1) has less hitstun. It doesn't work with 5C instead of 6C either.

 

Edit: Bedtime, I'll test again tomorrow morning.

[Spark]

New Enma on block is -4.

[BlackYakuzu94]

Damn, really? figured it was plus this time.

[Spark]

4C is now -7 from -11.  Start up seems to be 10F down from 15F.

 

4C on IB can be 4Ced back.

 

3C still -12F.

[Wander]

How does the recovery of the new 4C compare to the old one? Thanks

[mAc Chaos]

It's in the post right above yours l2read scrub!!!

Spark, maybe you should make another Hakumen General Info thread, if you think he's changed enough.

Same with the Q&A thread since it opens with stuff about a BnB that isn't around anymore.

[BlackYakuzu94]

...So can I go ahead and make the combo thread then.

[Wander]

I should had been more specific, recovery on whiff. But i will assume its unchanged. 

[mAc Chaos]

...So can I go ahead and make the combo thread then.

I was going to do it, but it's probably better for someone who actually has the game to do it. Just be ready to update it a lot.

If you end up not being able to do it though I can just do it as usual.

[BlackYakuzu94]

I'll try to update as much as possible. There's not really a lot to cover this time fortunately.

[BlackYakuzu94]

Alright, I did most of the first post, what do you guys think?

 

http://www.dustloop.com/forums/index.php?/topic/10658-cpex-hakumen-combo-thread-whos-ready-to-ride-the-escalator-of-justicewip/#entry908570

[mAc Chaos]

You will probably need to add more notations. Check the older threads.

Change the cyan color; it's hard to read.

"j.A(jc)>j.A>j.C or j.A(jc)>j.2C>j.21A, "

Shouldn't jA be j2A?

Good work so far.

Also it's important for Hakumen to distinguish between links and gatlings. Use > for gatlings, and , for links.

[BlackYakuzu94]

Gotcha.

[Spark]

I want to say 4C's recovery is a lot better, it would be the only way for it to be safer on block unless they made the move level 4.  Which is hard to tell since you can't special cancel it anymore.  Also 4C isn't air unblockable anymore.

[mAc Chaos]

That sucks. I tagged lots of people out of jumps with it.

For recovery you could test it by doing 4C point blank and having the other player try jabbing out.

[BlackYakuzu94]

Is it me or did they decrease the untech time on 5A, I don't remember having to chain 5B off it as fast.

[BlackYakuzu94]

So, he still has a safe jump off Agito fortunately. Tested it against all of the reversals.

[Doze]

Random question but i just started learning Hakuman with the release of CPEX and i was wondering when are the most optimal times to use Renka i usually just use guren for the +1 and also Tsubaki i never use these moves so i was just wondering how i should be implementing them into my game.

[Raziul]

Renka isn't quite as used as it was back in its heydays of CSEX when it had the most amazing proration ever. Mostly it's used for combo filler and frame traps. It acts a little differently in CPEX though now that the first hit of Renka no longer causes knockdown.

 

It can sometimes be used for mix up as well, if you're facing opponents that have been conditioned to expect things like 5C > Zan, although the reward isn't nearly as good as actually hitting your opponent with Zantetsu.

[Moblin]

Both those moves are going to be very situational in CPEX now.  Renka isn't really worth using outside of the corner because it can't lead into an easy BnB loop anymore, since it staggers instead of knocks down now.

 

in the corner, you can confirm a lot of normal hit moves with Renka into big damage with this combo:

 

starter(2b, 5b, j.b, even 5a or 2a) > Renka(1) > kishuu, lvl2 6C, 2c, jc j.C > hotaru > AD j.c, land 5c, 5c > gurren, 5c

 

 

Otherwise there's almost always a better move to extend your combo with besides Renka, namely Gurren, and if you have the stars after Gurren, zantetsu.

 

 

As for tsubaki, you should use it in tandem with Hotaru for AD combos.   Those are advanced and very risky so focus on just 6b and jump-ins for overheads until you get a better grasp on when to use Tsubaki.

[Moblin]

edit: never mind, now i'm stuck on challenge #20.  You have to break Azrael's guard and THEN kill him.  Unsure of how to do it