Swallow Moon Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 (edited) Any uses for TK Swallow Moon? I've seen it used in videos but I can't think of a proper moment (besides avoiding Tager's uhhh... whatever input is the grab that deals tons of damage, lol) to use it. :I Oh yeah, also, any advice on the Carl matchup? I always seem to get sandwich'd between him and Nirvana. <_< Edited June 21, 2011 by Swallow Moon
A.X.I.S. Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 TK swallow moon can also be used as a mix up. Instant overheads are really nice right? TK swallow moon it. For Carl I always followed one simple rule: Do not get sandwiched. Play safe and lame do not get touched by Carl, him making you block can lead to you getting sandwiched.
Urichinan Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 Any uses for TK Swallow Moon? I've seen it used in videos but I can't think of a proper moment (besides avoiding Tager's uhhh... whatever input is the grab that deals tons of damage, lol) to use it. :I Pressure, TK is after 5A, 6A, 5C, Bombs, Missiles and Bubble Oki and you have instant overheads. If you do it during projectiles it creates a situation where it's hard to see the overhead coming, you can also feint your overheads into a Barrier Guard if you think they'll try to mash out.
soujiro seta Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 I will be posting the carl matchup soon. Harddrive crashed, and I can't recover it, but I'll get to work on it soon again TK swallow moon can be used for multiple things tk swallow moon j.B 5A combo tk swallow moon j.B 5C combo tk swallow moon j.B barrier cancel (2A)/(B+C) tk swallow moon j.B tk swallow moon (j.B)/(barrier cancel B+C)/(barrier cancel 2A) It can also be used to bait out things, such as anti airs, from your opponent, then you can punish with CH j.C combo.
soujiro seta Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 (edited) Tip 236236D can be used as a burst bait. If you feel your opponent will burst, do 236236D. Infact at times they might burst just because you did it. Especially during a combo. They're like "OMG he did 236236D during a combo, that means big damage so I have to burst". Final round, opps health is low, you hit him in corner, 5B 5C 236236D *burst* gotcha nigga. 236236D can also be used on wake up, similar to how ragnas use blood kain on wakeup. Ofcourse you'll still have to block what your opponent tossed out there. If you're under pressure, have bat coming up, and are too lazy to block, excaliborg it and mash 5D if your opponent tossed something out. You can use it to bait DP, DDs, etc on your opponents wakeup, so enjoy as they watch you deal 5k afterwards. If it isn't obvious by now, people like to bait out our bats because once we get it, we plats have a habit of trying to mash it out. People are expecting you to mash it on wakeup/during strings, instead realize that this is your chance to turn their offense into defense. On wakeup/during strings, rather than mash D, if you see your opponent give a slight pause in an attempt to bait out your bat, press 5A/2A and begin pressuring. If they jump, the 6A blah blah blah Pan I've realized that most plats always feel like they have to use the pan once they get it. No you don't. People are expecting j.D, and they are scared shitless of it. I've gotten my opponents to burst and chipped their life away with 2A starter combos because of the fear of j.D. People chicken block a ton when they see you have pan. Don't use j.D. Just keep doing 5A/2A. They will most likely be chicken blocking and get hit by 2A. On their wakeup don't do j.D either. Still keep pressuring with 5A/2A. You want to get as much free damage off 2A as you can. The fear of j.D is enough. If you've conditioned your opponent to think that after 6B you usually dash in and 5A/2A, you can 6B 66 j.D. Or tk swallow moon j.B land j.D. To make them shit their pants harder and stand block exclusively, go install and get paper fan. "ZOMGS install fan, OH NOES", they'll chicken block till they die :bad: Edited June 21, 2011 by soujiro seta
Arifureta Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 TK swallow moon for oki is pretty godlike since j.C immediately lands you back to the ground and sets up a throw or low followup. So you've got a fast overhead/low/throw mixup after knockdown and if you think your opponent is going to mash out then you can barrier cancel it as well.
Kujikawa Posted June 22, 2011 Posted June 22, 2011 Are there any other uses to pan then Instant Overheads and pushing your opponent closer to the corner? Also, does anyone know what the most likely time the opponent would burst during ...Mami > 5C > 2C > 214C > ... combos?
Fireryda Posted June 22, 2011 Posted June 22, 2011 Well thats pretty much all you want to do as Plat anyways. Get somebody near the corner and go crazy. And for that combo. Most people would burst before 236B to not get the big damage otherwise it'd be after it when you're otg'n but everything after is just massive burst bait.
Urichinan Posted June 22, 2011 Posted June 22, 2011 Are there any other uses to pan then Instant Overheads and pushing your opponent closer to the corner? Also, does anyone know what the most likely time the opponent would burst during ...Mami > 5C > 2C > 214C > ... combos? Pan is mainly just for big damage in combos, since the range is bad and it doesn't have any kind of invincibility it can't be used as a poke or a anti-air. The mixup she has with the Pan is basically what you're going for here. And there is no way of telling when they will Burst during a combo because it's entirely up to them at what point during each move they want to do it. Often times they'll do it during Mami, 5C OTG or during the animation of the Bubble. You can try for Burst baits, but you have to know EXACTLY where they are going to Burst at, so it's impossible to know "When is the most likely time" it's really more of "I think they might Burst during 5C, so I'll just jump > Barrier just incase they do" you just have to go off instinct with Burst Baits. Not to say they won't ever do it when you think they will, but often times they'll Burst when you have no options to bait it.
Arifureta Posted June 22, 2011 Posted June 22, 2011 The only bursts I can actually catch on reaction are when they burst the mami circular, since there's enough time to rapid and block before it comes out. Other than that, it's pretty much a guessing game. Unless it's really obvious that they'll burst (like say that last hit before the distortion that'll guarantee kill them or something (and even then that's still not guaranteed)), I just usually keep going with my combo.
soujiro seta Posted June 22, 2011 Posted June 22, 2011 (edited) This is what I'm talking about with the excaliborg thing. This is perfect if your positioning is wall---opp---plat. You can combo after CH excaliborg in the corner. Remember you can use it on your opponent's wakeup as well to bait stuff, so when you get someone cornered, aka D mashing noels/wall--carl--plat--nirvana in sandwich pressure, with 50 heat and bat(or any item for that matter) coming up....you know what to do. Edited June 22, 2011 by soujiro seta
Kujikawa Posted June 22, 2011 Posted June 22, 2011 Ok thanx alot. Btw, I haven't really found any use for the pan in combos apart from Mami > Pan > 3C > Cure Dot or ending the corner air-combo with it, then when they come bouncing back up, grab > Cure Dot (Which isn't really a combo). There is the J.D > Dash > J.C, but I barely get that much more damage off it compared to usual mid-screen BnBs. And one more quick question. After ending a corner combo with J.B > J.C > J.B > J.C > Air Persia AAA, should I be using Backdash > 3C > Bubble > Dash > Pressure if they neutral tech?
soujiro seta Posted June 22, 2011 Posted June 22, 2011 (edited) Ok thanx alot. Btw, I haven't really found any use for the pan in combos apart from Mami > Pan > 3C > Cure Dot or ending the corner air-combo with it, then when they come bouncing back up, grab > Cure Dot (Which isn't really a combo). There is the J.D > Dash > J.C, but I barely get that much more damage off it compared to usual mid-screen BnBs. And one more quick question. After ending a corner combo with J.B > J.C > J.B > J.C > Air Persia AAA, should I be using Backdash > 3C > Bubble > Dash > Pressure if they neutral tech? Pan gives you access to an instant over head off her jump-cancel able normals. You get about 5k off her pan starters. That's very good damage. Pan isn't just for damage, it's also for fear factor. You can get a ton of damage off 2A hitconfirms just because they're expecting j.D. Combo wise the pan doesn't have that much versatility, then again the same can be said about all her items It depends on what you want to do. If you aren't already doing this, I suggest you (9)sj.B j.C (7)dj.B dj.C dj.214AAAA. The (7)dj.B is so that after air persia you won't need to backdash. If they roll tech forward, they'll tech right in front of you. No need for 3C bubble dash etc. If they neutral, simply dash up and begin pressure. Also, don't always do 3C bubble if 3C is blocked. People expect that a lot cause that's what a lot of plats do. Most of the time just do 3C, with a couple 3C bubble tossed in there. You'd be surprised at how many things you can bait and punish cause your opponent thought you'd 3C bubble. Edited June 22, 2011 by soujiro seta
Kujikawa Posted June 23, 2011 Posted June 23, 2011 (edited) I suggest you (9)sj.B j.C (7)dj.B dj.C dj.214AAAA. The (7)dj.B is so that after air persia you won't need to backdash. If they roll tech forward, they'll tech right in front of you. No need for 3C bubble dash etc.. I do, do this. However, Air Persia just pulls me in after DJ.C, and once again I am next to the oppenent once I hit the ground - needing a backdash to stop forward rollers. This is with the 5C > Mami > 5C > 2C > 214C > (9)SJ.B > J.C > (7)DJ.B > DJ.C > 236AAAA combo. Edited June 23, 2011 by Kujikawa
Arifureta Posted June 23, 2011 Posted June 23, 2011 If you're looking for oki options, I feel it's much better to end the combo with a mami circular into bubble+TK swallow moon setup. It's guaranteed neutral tech.
Kujikawa Posted June 23, 2011 Posted June 23, 2011 If you're looking for oki options, I feel it's much better to end the combo with a mami circular into bubble+TK swallow moon setup. It's guaranteed neutral tech. Indeed, that's what I usually do off 5B, 5A, 6A, etc. However, from 5C or just Mami, I prefer to go for damage instead and I was just wondering what are the best options after. I do tend to go for oki almost 100% of the time on characters like Lambda though.
Arifureta Posted June 23, 2011 Posted June 23, 2011 I see I see. I usually backdash and wait to see what they'll do if I ever do that finisher. If they roll it's a free pickup. If they neutral, there's usually enough time to dash up 5A to start pressure again. Though I tend to only use that finisher on characters that have no real reversals so I don't eat a dp when I run up.
Kujikawa Posted June 23, 2011 Posted June 23, 2011 I see I see. I usually backdash and wait to see what they'll do if I ever do that finisher. If they roll it's a free pickup. If they neutral, there's usually enough time to dash up 5A to start pressure again. Though I tend to only use that finisher on characters that have no real reversals so I don't eat a dp when I run up. What if they jump? J.C & C Bubble?
Urichinan Posted June 23, 2011 Posted June 23, 2011 What if they jump? J.C & C Bubble? I always backdash C Bubble when I do an Air Persia ender, it keeps them from jumping out and if they forward or back tech you get free pressure.
Kujikawa Posted June 23, 2011 Posted June 23, 2011 I always backdash C Bubble when I do an Air Persia ender, it keeps them from jumping out and if they forward or back tech you get free pressure. Yeah, definitely, that seems like the best option. Thanx. Is ... > Mami > 5C > 6A > 6C > Sallow Moon a good reset? J.C, J.2C, J.B for pressure on back roll/neutral tech. Barrier for DPs.
A.X.I.S. Posted June 23, 2011 Posted June 23, 2011 I always backdash C Bubble when I do an Air Persia ender, it keeps them from jumping out and if they forward or back tech you get free pressure. I B Bubble so I can run and jump in, I found C bubble to be better overall since it stops jump outs, but I like to bait reversals and DP's with B bubble so I can punish it for 5k.
suzumiya4ever Posted June 27, 2011 Posted June 27, 2011 Quick question about combo for Platinum, On this video http://youtu.be/DRjSroTayMA 1:08 when he starts doing combo from 6B, how do you connect from 6B to like 66A or 6 5A or 5C or so? I just can't do it. And on this video http://youtu.be/9ZlWCaTb06c From 1:26 to 1:36, how do you go from 22C to 6A seems like? When I do it opponents always recover before I land or something, timing seems to be very strict for this Any helps will be appreciated, thanks :D
IceColdCombo Posted June 27, 2011 Posted June 27, 2011 Quick question about combo for Platinum, On this video http://youtu.be/DRjSroTayMA 1:08 when he starts doing combo from 6B, how do you connect from 6B to like 66A or 6 5A or 5C or so? I just can't do it. Do 6b further away from the opponent, that should work.
Halcyone3 Posted June 27, 2011 Posted June 27, 2011 Quick question about combo for Platinum, On this video http://youtu.be/DRjSroTayMA 1:08 when he starts doing combo from 6B, how do you connect from 6B to like 66A or 6 5A or 5C or so? I just can't do it. And on this video http://youtu.be/9ZlWCaTb06c From 1:26 to 1:36, how do you go from 22C to 6A seems like? When I do it opponents always recover before I land or something, timing seems to be very strict for this Any helps will be appreciated, thanks :D in both cases you are supposed to hit during the very last frames of the move so you recover faster with respect to their hitstun. For 6B that means doing it a bit away from the opponent, so it hits after she already traveled forward a bit. For 22C, its just something you have to learn to time by practice, if the enemy is teching before u can follow-up, do it earlier, repeat till you find the timing and get confortable with it.
Kujikawa Posted June 27, 2011 Posted June 27, 2011 (edited) Quick question about combo for Platinum, On this video http://youtu.be/DRjSroTayMA 1:08 when he starts doing combo from 6B, how do you connect from 6B to like 66A or 6 5A or 5C or so? I just can't do it. And on this video http://youtu.be/9ZlWCaTb06c From 1:26 to 1:36, how do you go from 22C to 6A seems like? When I do it opponents always recover before I land or something, timing seems to be very strict for this Any helps will be appreciated, thanks :D 6B can be a bitch to combo sometimes. It's all about the spacing, you have to be quite far away from your opponent to connect it. Best way to test the range is to go into training mode and hit the opponent with 6B, then hit 5A (Or mash it). If 5A hits then you are too close. Do it again, but from a longer distance. If 5A whiffs, you are probably in range to do a dashed 5A. The dashed 5A, if done quick enough, should connect. You then should learn this distance and apply it to your mix-up/pressure game. For the second video, I'm not sure. I have only succussful pulled it off a few times on Tager(Since I don't use it much at all). All I know is that it has something to do with the spacing and timing of Bubble > 6C > 22C. Plus, the dash 6A is quite a strict timing, IMO. I think it may just be the timing of 22C. You can watch the video Urichinan created to help people with the timing of 22C, it can prove to be quite useful: http://www.youtube.com/user/wozscreamer?blend=7&ob=5#p/u/0/3BkwHHucKg8 Edited June 27, 2011 by Kujikawa
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