[CSE] Platinum Q&A/FAQ Thread

[The Mayor]

So i played a few matches online and got my shit pushed in,i did most of the tutorials and stuff like that and thought I could do ok for a beginner but applying it to a match is a whole different story. How am i supposed to be getting in with Platinum, it seems like everything i try i either get counter hit or raped for a reason i cant understand. Does knowing how to move about the screen come with experience or is there something specific?

[Yggjrasil]

Try working on your movement overall. Learn to barrier break your dashes to fake your opponent out into thinking you're going in, force them to whiff pokes and punish those pokes. Use Swallow Moon in the air while Air Dashing to cut it short to make them whiff an AA. Also, if you're getting CH out of your stuff then that means you're either using something that has very slow start-up, or you're spacing it incorrectly. Using pokes like 5A,2B,5B,3C , and j.C are ideal in neutral,also using Dream Sally in certain matchups help too. Other than all of that, It does take some practice and you need to be patient. Everything comes in moderation.

[Putin]

I picked up Plat when I got me Extend. Learned a few basic combos, used her in matches. But it still feels like I can't actually do what I want with her.

What basic stuff would you point out to someone who just picked her up?

How do you go about her movement? Her air dash is the most terrible thing ever, and going in on foot with the occasional barrier seems inefficient, especially against zoners.

I know you can bait stuff with Swallow Moon, even though I can't use it properly yet, but does it make up for her limited movement options?

Once I lock them down in the corner things obviously get a lot better, when I have the Pan -and don't sj.C like an moron instead of TKing- I feel like a god. The problem is how to get in, since she doesn't seem to have any other option.

I play Hazama and Jin if that helps.

Now about pressure. Is 5A ad infinitum with the occasional low, properly spaced 6B, TK Swallow or tick throw all you need to know?

I imagine it'll be a pain to use against mash happy people, unless she's got something like Jin's 6B which can dodge jabs and go in for some godlike damage.

In other words, how do I condition people with Plat? What about frame traps?

And lastly, a combo related question.

I can do 6C > 22C > 5C no problem, but 6A is killing me. Any tips on how differently I should time 22C in comparison to the timing needed for 5C to connect?

For some reason I get easily bored grinding her combos. : <

[Moy_X7]

What basic stuff would you point out to someone who just picked her up?

How do you go about her movement? Her air dash is the most terrible thing ever, and going in on foot with the occasional barrier seems inefficient, especially against zoners.

Her air dash is not that bad. What you do is IAD j.C > Swallow > j.C or IAD j.C > j.2C. You're using j.C to cut the air dash short and you're using Swallow to stop her momentum. You use j.2C when the opponent starts getting tired of you resetting pressure with Swallow for free. Other than that, you really are just going to have to go on foot and throw your pokes out. Going from 5B (furthest), 2B and j.C, (second furthest), and 5A (mid range). Believe it or not, you're going to have to use Mami against zoners from time to time. Not so much against Rachel but you really have to use it against Lambda when you read a 5D.

I know you can bait stuff with Swallow Moon, even though I can't use it properly yet, but does it make up for her limited movement options?

lol, her movement isn't even limited. It's pretty much the same as any other character. Besides, you can't just go around IAD'ing people at random with any character, that's an easy way to get AA'd. Now let's say that her movement really is "limited", that's what she's got her pokes for.

Once I lock them down in the corner things obviously get a lot better, when I have the Pan -and don't sj.C like an moron instead of TKing- I feel like a god. The problem is how to get in, since she doesn't seem to have any other option.

I know that feel, if you're lucky you'll catch them try to jump out and stop her momentum with Swallow lol. I think you're too used to Hazama's godlike neutral and mobility. She's a bit more like Jin, minus the TK Ice Blades that you can use as cover for rushing in. You could always use a Bubble for cover, have them try to pop it, and punish them with max range 5B.

Now about pressure. Is 5A ad infinitum with the occasional low, properly spaced 6B, TK Swallow or tick throw all you need to know?

I imagine it'll be a pain to use against mash happy people, unless she's got something like Jin's 6B which can dodge jabs and go in for some godlike damage.

In other words, how do I condition people with Plat? What about frame traps?

Yup, that's pretty much her pressure in a nutshell. She does have something like Jin's 6B and that's her 6C; it works exactly the same way and the foot invul kicks in a frame faster than Jin's 6B. If you score a fatal then you're going to do some serious damage. Other than that, 2A > 5B, 5A > (delayed) 5B, 5A/2A > (delayed) 5C, and stagger 5A are some of her basic frame traps.

And lastly, a combo related question.

I can do 6C > 22C > 5C no problem, but 6A is killing me. Any tips on how differently I should time 22C in comparison to the timing needed for 5C to connect?

For some reason I get easily bored grinding her combos. : <

The shitty thing about that is that most characters have different timings. With Lambda you have to do the 22C pretty early after the 6C, with Hakumen you have to use the 22C pretty late after the 6C. You're just going to have to experiment and practice it rigorously until you can nail it down and you can get a "feel" of when you should use the 6A pick-up vs the 5C pick-up.

Heheh, grinding combos is not supposed to be fun. Specially with her and her more challenging multiple 22C combos.

Edit: You know what? I'm going to make a guide on how to use 22C and the various timings for different characters.

Edited May 25, 2012 by Moy_X7

[Putin]

Her air dash is not that bad. What you do is IAD j.C > Swallow > j.C or IAD j.C > j.2C. You're using j.C to cut the air dash short and you're using Swallow to stop her momentum. You use j.2C when the opponent starts getting tired of you resetting pressure with Swallow for free. Other than that, you really are just going to have to go on foot and throw your pokes out. Going from 5B (furthest), 2B and j.C, (second furthest), and 5A (mid range). Believe it or not, you're going to have to use Mami against zoners from time to time. Not so much against Rachel but you really have to use it against Lambda when you read a 5D.

I've never thought about canceling the air dash with anything, and I've been using j.C only as a poke. I'm definitely trying that.

It doesn't really seem like a good plan against zoners though, but I'll test it and see for my self I guess.

I do occasionally use raw Mamis against them, even though I try to avoid that cause I feel like a scrub. : < Probably need to get that thought out of my head.

lol, her movement isn't even limited. It's pretty much the same as any other character. Besides, you can't just go around IAD'ing people at random with any character, that's an easy way to get AA'd. Now let's say that her movement really is "limited", that's what she's got her pokes for.

I know that feel, if you're lucky you'll catch them try to jump out and stop her momentum with Swallow lol. I think you're too used to Hazama's godlike neutral and mobility. She's a bit more like Jin, minus the TK Ice Blades that you can use as cover for rushing in. You could always use a Bubble for cover, have them try to pop it, and punish them with max range 5B.

I may be used to flying around with Haz, but that doesn't stop me from getting in with Jin, hell, not even with Ragna and I don't even sub the guy.

I'll try the bubble thing, other than that I guess I'll have to get a better feel of her normals.

Which Bubble should I use in this occasion though?

The shitty thing about that is that most characters have different timings. With Lambda you have to do the 22C pretty early after the 6C, with Hakumen you have to use the 22C pretty late after the 6C. You're just going to have to experiment and practice it rigorously until you can nail it down and you can get a "feel" of when you should use the 6A pick-up vs the 5C pick-up.

Heheh, grinding combos is not supposed to be fun. Specially with her and her more challenging multiple 22C combos.

Edit: You know what? I'm going to make a guide on how to use 22C and the various timings for different characters.

Eh, fuck that, I'll probably settle with 5C > 6C > Mami till you finish that guide. The damage is still strong for a combo that easy.

And I actually have fun grinding stuff with my mains.

Thanks for the input, I was kinda losing my enthusiasm on Platinum, I hope trying this stuff out will get it back for me.

[Moy_X7]

I'd probably use either the A or the C Bubble for cover, the B Bubble goes away too fast. Yeah, I'll be done with the 22C tutorial sometime today.

[Yggjrasil]

214B is good for Ragnas who just like to go in with 5B or 5C all day. Time it just right and you can catch them out of it.

[Moy_X7]

22C tutorial is up.

[suwave688]

I've got a question about the 22C combo. Connecting 5B>5C>236B>5C>2C>Bubble>6C>22C is easy to connect for me. But if I change my starter to something like 2B>5B,then the 22C is impossible for me. Is there a reason for this? Proration perhaps or something else?

[Moy_X7]

2B > 5B > 5C > 236B > 5C > 2C > 214C > 6C > 22C > 5C > 6A > 236B does work and it does 3305 damage. You have to be flawless on the 22C timing though and you're right, it does have to do with 2B's P1 of 80. You really shouldn't be using the 2B > 5B gatling, there's no point in using 5B as that's just a free IB. What you want to do is go straight into 5C. Learn to hit-confirm 2B > 5C > 236B.

[suwave688]

Thank you for clearing that up for me sir.Tutorial you put up is really handy,Plat's combos aren't as difficult as it first seems.Anybody watching the BBCSE stream for evo this weekend? Disappointed it was shoved aside this time around.

[Moy_X7]

Glad I can be of help.

I'm shitty that I missed the stream. I'll just have to wait for it to get uploaded to YouTube or watched the archived stream.

[Zettasho]

Sucks that I didn't see the stream but I'll see it when it's uploaded on youtube

[suwave688]

Can anybody help out an idiot? I'm getting discouraged with creating combos and understanding damage proration. Especially with Plat's execution,creating combos is frustrating when I can't understand my limits.Can somebody give me an example perhaps and explain how I should be implementing proration when creating or understanding combos?

[Xie]

2B > 5B > 5C > 236B > 5C > 2C > 214C > 6C > 22C > 5C > 6A > 236B does work and it does 3305 damage. You have to be flawless on the 22C timing though and you're right, it does have to do with 2B's P1 of 80. You really shouldn't be using the 2B > 5B gatling, there's no point in using 5B as that's just a free IB. What you want to do is go straight into 5C. Learn to hit-confirm 2B > 5C > 236B.

Just FYI, 2B > 5B > 5C hitconfirms slightly farther than 2B > 5C. There's a specific space where 2B won't connect to 5C but 2B 5B will let you hit 5C. Not important on crouchers, obviously.

Can anybody help out an idiot? I'm getting discouraged with creating combos and understanding damage proration. Especially with Plat's execution,creating combos is frustrating when I can't understand my limits.Can somebody give me an example perhaps and explain how I should be implementing proration when creating or understanding combos?

Sorry, there is no easy answer to this. For reference, here is a chart about proration vs untech time/hitstun.

Proration Ground Air

32% 0F -2F

27% 0F -3F

22% -2F -4F

18% -3F -5F

14% -4 -6F

10% -5F -8F

7% -7F -10F

4% -10F -13F

2% -14F -17F

< 2% auto tech auto tech

In this game, hitstun and untechable time are related directly to current combo proration, and at 32% proration (untechable time -2F), 214C > 6C > 22C > 5C becomes more difficult to land for that very reason.

Here is the sample calculation:

2B .80*.86

5B *.89

5C *.92

236B *.92

5C *.92

2C *.92

214C *.82

6C *.94

22C *.94

= 31.4%

If you leave the 5B out, you would have stayed above 32%, which is why the combo isn't so bad. When starting out, what you can do is consider the proration of the combo before 236B hits, then choose a route that is reliable for you afterwards. 236B is a reliable place for you to consider how much proration your combo has, then choose a route that works beyond that specific value. For me, I have routes for A LOT of difficult values and item combinations, but if you're starting out, I recommend just having one for above 63% (2B 5C) and below 63% (2B 5B 5C) / (5A 2B 5C) and below 40% (2A 5A 5A 5C etc).

Edited July 13, 2012 by Xie

[Moy_X7]

Just FYI, 2B > 5B > 5C hitconfirms slightly farther than 2B > 5C. There's a specific space where 2B won't connect to 5C but 2B 5B will let you hit 5C. Not important on crouchers, obviously.

Huh, I was half aware of that. If you do a max range 2B without dashing momentum, then the 5C will most likely whiff. What I didn't know is that 5B made it so that you won't whiff the 5C. Good to know, thanks.

[Resolutelament]

31.4%? How are you calculating this again? I plugged in everything and I got 31.7%. Or does that even make a difference?

[Agni]

2B > 5B > 5C > 236B > 5C > 2C > 214C > 6C > 22C > 5C > 6A > 236B does work and it does 3305 damage. You have to be flawless on the 22C timing though and you're right, it does have to do with 2B's P1 of 80. You really shouldn't be using the 2B > 5B gatling, there's no point in using 5B as that's just a free IB. What you want to do is go straight into 5C. Learn to hit-confirm 2B > 5C > 236B.

Wait, seriously? Damn, the only combo I know is mashing about 2A>5A>5B>2B>5C>236C. Damn, no wonder my friend can punish that one easily.

[Xie]

31.4%? How are you calculating this again? I plugged in everything and I got 31.7%. Or does that even make a difference?

I probably just made a math error, or remembered it incorrectly. Regardless, between 27% and 32% the untechable time is -2F.

[suwave688]

I'm starting to understand it.Thanks Xie for helping out a beginner. Hard to find a thorough explanation anywhere for hitstun decay and move proration.Appreciate it lots.

[suwave688]

Quick question for Moy here. I've been grinding combos with Plat,alot from your compilation but one of the most frustrating things for me is 6C>j.236C>j.C>66 6A>236B. I could never get circular to connect. I'm assuming I need to delay the j.C a bit,but just a little unsure.

[Moy_X7]

Yeah, you have to time the j.236C > j.C cancel. It also depends if you're doing something like 6A > 6C > j.236C > j.C > 66 6A > 6C > j.236C > j.C > 66 6A > 236B, the second set is pretty damn hard to land and it requires that you're right next to the opponent and sometimes even dashing momentum. Could you tell me exactly what combo you're looking at, just to make sure?

[suwave688]

[standing Opponent] 2A > 5C > j.C > j.2C > 66 5A > 5C > 6A > 6C > j.236C > j.C > 66 6A > 236B > 66 > [Combo Finisher 1] (2033/43)

66 6A would probably be the critical point I'm assuming. Any tips? This link must be essential to Plat,since several long strings involve inputs like these.

[Moy_X7]

Yeah, you have to cancel the j.236C into j.C as fast as possible and buffer the 66 6A the moment you hit them with the j.C. Then again, that combo is not very practical since you'll be weakening your pressure if you auto-pilot 2A > 5C and I highly doubt that most people have the reactions to actually hit-confirm the 2A. Mmm, maybe I should look for a variant, something like 2A > 5A > stuff as that's easier to hit-confirm.

[suwave688]

Indeed it's not very practical,but the point of it was execution.At first I needed to know what I was doing wrong,but at least I know what to adjust now. Much thanks sir. I was actually planning on uploading a video of the compilation you made,since I was looking for one myself.Once I get it down of course.