[CS2/EX] Hakumen Info and Discussion

[BladeOfJustice7]

its more of a tutorial/combo movie lol

not sure if everyone knows this yet but most stable midscreen 3 star combo: starter>236b(1)>623a>2c>j.b>j.2a>air dash>j.a>j.b>5c>2c>j.b>j.2a>air dash>j.2a>j.c>stuff if get to corner

I'll look into that later, still not completely comfortable with 2c>sj.b yet. Still a bit awkward for me right now.

I noticed that too last night. We'll just need a variation of it.

I think we'll need to learn to incorporate 6a and jb in the combo now to...

*puts on shades*

EXTEND the combo.

YYYYYEEEEAAAAHHHHHH

By doing so she would be able to increase the damage within the combo.

[xlolxlolx]

doesnt have to be a super jump for most chars but retarded ones like carl youll need to improvise since you cant always do the second j.b>j.2a because of the proration from your starter will make the j.2a whiff

[aeonphreak]

its more of a tutorial/combo movie lol

not sure if everyone knows this yet but most stable midscreen 3 star combo: starter>236b(1)>623a>2c>j.b>j.2a>air dash>j.a>j.b>5c>2c>j.b>j.2a>air dash>j.2a>j.c>stuff if get to corner

I like the combo, but it seems to have issues. First, I can't get the last JC to connect. If I superjump the last 2C>JB>J2A>ADJ2A>JC section, I whiff JC because haku's too high. Whereas, if I standard jump the last 2C>JB>J2A I can't get J2A to connect because haku's too far away. Considering the character is grounded with 5C, there wouldn't be any other adjustments you could make. Would need a vid reference.

Also, this combo is character specific. During this section:

starter>236b(1)>623a>2c>j.b>j.2a>air dash>j.a>j.b,>5c>2c>j.b>j.2a>air dash>j.2a>j.c>stuff if get to corner

You'll have to go either JA>JB or JB>JA depending on the character. I think most characters would need JB>JA as I only got the former to work on tager, lol.

The more stable thing one could do would be:

236B1>623A>66>2C>JB>delayJ2A>ADJA>JB>2C>sjJ2A>ADJ2A>JC=3645

Its not as optimal in damage, but alot more stable.

Edited February 25, 2012 by aeonphreak

[xlolxlolx]

j.a>j.b works on everyone because 2c on downed puts them at the lowest height possible for it to connect youre probably not delaying the j.2a>air dash>j.a long enough and the ender part all depends on your starter, and its 236b for renka now lol(i kept forgetting this too)

if you do 236b(1) or 5c starter then you can do sj.b>j.2a>air dash>j.b>j.2a>j.c with ease, if you have 3c or 5b starter youll have to settle for j.b>j.2a>air dash>j.2a>j.c which works on most chars, and sj.b>j.2a>j.c for the stupid ones

ill do some more testing later

[aeonphreak]

j.a>j.b works on everyone because 2c on downed puts them at the lowest height possible for it to connect youre probably not delaying the j.2a>air dash>j.a long enough and the ender part all depends on your starter, and its 236b for renka now lol(i kept forgetting this too)

if you do 236b(1) or 5c starter then you can do sj.b>j.2a>air dash>j.b>j.2a>j.c with ease, if you have 3c or 5b starter youll have to settle for j.b>j.2a>air dash>j.2a>j.c which works on most chars, and sj.b>j.2a>j.c for the stupid ones

ill do some more testing later

I see what you're saying. I finally got the whole thing to work, but I have to use JB>JA>5C to get 5C to connect; its like when I do JA>JB, the character is always too high for 5C to connect. I'm not sure, but i think that the completion of the second 2C>JB is distance to corner dependent to hit because sometimes i get JB and sometimes I don't.

JA>JB will work off of downed 2C. As you mentioned, pro tip-DOWNED 2C(wait for opponent to hit ground after 236B1! or else it'll never work. height will always be off

lol, yup 236B1. i swear old renka notation is embedded in my brain, haha. edited my above post

Edited February 25, 2012 by aeonphreak

[xlolxlolx]

k tested on everyone

j.b>j.2a>air dash>j.2a>j.c doesnt work on carl, works on makoto and rachel but very specific timing with j.a>j.b>5c

[Stone Drum]

hmm.. I've never seen that combo done in play yet. How does it compare to this widely used combo?

starter-renka1-kishuu-66-2c-(s)jb-j2a-AD-jb-ja-2c-sj2a-AD-j2a-jc

OR 5c-renka1-kishuu-66-2c-(s)jb-j2a-AD-jb-ja-5c-2c-sjb-j2a-AD-jb-j2a-jc if 5c or renka1 is the starter

[Stone Drum]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnOol6dKY5c&feature=g-all-u&context=G2670f8cFAAAAAAAADAA

You forgot this one. That should be all of them though.

-----

So I did some testing of the new combo that Blacky did. Here's how it compares to other variations of our corner combo that I know of. All combos were done with Level 2 charge of 6c:

Corner Loop: [starter] -> 2c -> SJ.2a -> J.2c -> 2c -> SJ.2a -> DELAY J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c -> 5c -> 3c

-Omit 3c for oki

-One repetition of Corner Loop is "2c -> SJ.2a -> J.2c"

-More than one repetition can be written as "Corner Loop (2)", for example

-Any time a combo uses more than one rep or proration does not permit it, omit "DELAY J.2a"

-Each J.2c should be delayed to ensure the rest of the combo works.

-In the odd cases where you think your J.2c in a Corner Loop (1 or 2) will not combo, you should use this combo instead:

[starter] -> 2c -> J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c -> SJ.2a -> DELAY J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c -> 5c -> 3c

If doing Corner Loop (2), then Starter = Starter + 1 repetition of Corner Loop.

Original CSII Corner Combo:

(3) 5c -> Renka(1) -> Kishuu -> [6c] -> HOP Corner Loop(2) [6258/2.4]

CSII Corner Combo with 6a added before the Corner Loop, Corner Loop also modified to have a SJ.5b before the first J.2a:

(3) 5c -> Renka(1) -> Kishuu -> [6c] -> 6a -> Corner Loop(2) [6237/3.0]

CSII Corner Combo with 6a -> 5c -> 3c added to the end of the Corner Loop, Corner Loop also modified to have a SJ.5b before the first J.2a (actually does more damage if you don't include the J.5b but you get 0.5 less magatama and the extra damage is tiny):

(3) 5c -> Renka(1) -> Kishuu -> [6c] -> Corner Loop(2) [6295/3.0]

A modified version of Blacky's combo that substitutes in the Corner Loop halfway in:

(3) 5c -> Renka(1) -> Kishuu -> [6c] -> 2c -> SJ.5b -> J.2a -> J.2c -> 2c -> J.2a -> J.2c -> 2c -> SJ.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c -> 6a -> 5c -> 3c [6295/2.7]

Blacky's Combo (it's actually kinda hard to do due to the hitbox of the 6a (do the J.2c too early and the 6a can't connect because the opponent is too high) as well as the following 5c (do 6a too early and the 5c can't connect because the opponent is too high), it could just be me being bad since I'm not playing on pad anymore ┐('～`；)┌ ):

(3) 5c -> Renka(1) -> Kishuu -> [6c] -> 2c -> SJ.5b -> J.2a -> J.2c -> 6a -> 5c -> 2c -> J.5b -> J.2a -> J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c -> 5c -> 3c [6253/2.8]

Not Blacky's Combo, but another one from somewhere else (probably recent Hakumen videos), only works with good starters like 5c, Renka, etc:

(3) 5c -> Renka(1) -> Kishuu -> [6c] -> 2c -> SJ.5b -> J.2a -> J.2c -> 5c -> 2c -> SJ.5b -> J.2a -> J.2c -> 2c -> SJ.2a -> J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c -> 6a -> 5c -> 3c [6562/3.5]

Here's a version of the previous combo that kinda works with more starters, really hard to land actually +__+;; .

(3) [starter] -> Renka(1) -> Kishuu -> [6c] -> 2c -> SJ.5b -> J.2a -> J.2c -> 5c -> 2c -> SJ.2a -> J.2c -> 2c -> J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c -> 6a -> 5c -> 3c [low damage-5307 (5b starter) /3]

Here's a version of the previous combo that actually works with more starters, not really better than just using the old CSII Corner Loop.

(3) [starter] -> Renka(1) -> Kishuu -> [6c] -> 2c -> SJ.5b -> J.2a -> J.2c -> 5c -> 2c -> J.5b -> J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c -> 6a -> 5c -> 3c [4800~ (5b starter) /3]

I'm still working with that last combo, doesn't seem to work off of much =__= .

thanks for this info! I suppose the 3rd combo you have would be the optimal 3MT corner combo. And the 6th off of 5c or renka1

[xlolxlolx]

uhh depends on how confident you are in your execution? j.a>j.b>2c/j.b>j.a>2c is obviously going to be easier to do since 2c has faster startup than 5c but it does about 400 more dmg than dat one with renka starter

j.a into 5c is pretty fucking strict while j.b into 5c is much more lenient, even doing sj.b>j.2a>j.c ender will net 150-200 points more than j.b>j.a>2c>sj.2a>stuff

the dmg difference between j.a>j.b and j.b>j.a is about 20.....so up to you whether you want dat extra 20 dmg or easier combo

Edited February 26, 2012 by xlolxlolx

[Stone Drum]

execution ain't no thang. But how much damage does starter>236b(1)>623a>2c>j.b>j.2a>air dash>j.a>j.b>5c>2c>j.b>j.2a>air dash>j.2a>j.c do and how much MT regain when compared to starter-renka1-kishuu-66-2c-(s)jb-j2a-AD-jb-ja-2c-sj2a-AD-j2a-jc? If someone could give the damage and MT regain for both of those off of the same starter, that'd be great :8/:

I still don't have extend

[xlolxlolx]

obviously more? 5b starter at exactly 3 stars u get 3797 dmg 1.75 stars back compared to 3510 dmg 1.2 stars back

on 5c and renka starters the damage difference is even greater due to fact that you can stick in another j.b

[Stone Drum]

..? I meant the difference between your combo and mine, not starter difference. nvm.. I'll just wait til I get extend and try it out myself

[xlolxlolx]

you fucking blind or braindead? cant you not understand the difference in numbers and words?

[Stone Drum]

but you didn't specify which damage/MT regain is attributed to which combo, hence my confusion

[xlolxlolx]

did you not read the other post where i clearly stated that mines does more in every situation?

[mAc Chaos]

you fucking blind or braindead? cant you not understand the difference in numbers and words?

Yo, what? Stop being such a dick.

[xlolxlolx]

bro he couldnt understand after 3 posts of me saying "its better"

[Stone Drum]

did you not read the other post where i clearly stated that mines does more in every situation?

No, I missed that, sorry.

Anyway, for final clarification to make sure I completely understand:

Your combo does more damage and with ja-jb-5c, the combo works on every character and has only a -20 damage difference from the jb-ja-5c that is char. specific.

AND your combo works off of any starter, correct?

[xlolxlolx]

well i think 2a>5a>renka>etc is a pretty good example for it since it works perfectly fine

[Stone Drum]

how does the corner carry compare?

[xlolxlolx]

pretty much the same

[keinight]

I don't understand the 2 following foot-notes of 6A in Hakumen ( BBCS2) frame data :

1) guard has 20F guard recovery. ( what is this ? )

2) opponents hitstop 16F when blocking. (And does 6A do a block-stun of 18F like normal lev 4 attacks do ? then what is the hitstop for ? )

[Spark]

1. How long it takes for the opponent to recover on block.

2. Hitstop is how long characters are stopped when they block or get hit by an attack. Usually this is shared by both characters when they give or receive an attack. Block stun just effects the character that is blocking not the attacker. Though sometimes there are odd exceptions for hitstop.

[keinight]

1. How long it takes for the opponent to recover on block.

Do u mean that this attack will give a opponent a blockstun of 20F ?

2. Hitstop is how long characters are stopped when they block or get hit by an attack. Usually this is shared by both characters when they give or receive an attack. Block stun just effects the character that is blocking not the attacker. Though sometimes there are odd exceptions for hitstop.

Do u mean that if Haku's 6A touch opponent (in blocking stage) at frame 17th ( or 18th, 19th), immediately after that both Haku and his opponent stop for 16F ;and then opponent needs another extra 20F to recover from blockstun while Haku can either wait for recovery or cancels into 6B, so there will be total 36 for the opponent to fully recover ?

[kotokot]

haku have 13F hitstop on 6A, opponent 16F afaik. He can 3F earlier cancel 6A into 6B/drives, than opponent use burst or CA. After this haku have rest of active frames and recovery and opponent have 20F blockstun.