XDest Posted February 1, 2011 Posted February 1, 2011 ya'll act like instant overheads haven't been in the game until now. I have no clue why everyone says rachel was beyond terrible. she definitely wasn't the worst character in the game Because the Rachel players whined the most. Tager was already the worst in CT, so they were used to it, and Tsubaki was a new character. But Rachel went from top tier to low tier. That caused much more butthurt.
killionaire Posted February 1, 2011 Posted February 1, 2011 Because the Rachel players whined the most. Tager was already the worst in CT, so they were used to it, and Tsubaki was a new character. But Rachel went from top tier to low tier. That caused much more butthurt. If anything, I'd probably bet it on this. Also because America never really was any good at playing even CT Rachel (with a couple exceptions). What you got was someone who needed a lot of effort for no reward. Now with our hindsight you'd be right with how there were characters that were worse. But back then, no way to tell. Well, this AND the fact that rachel stopped being fun to play with so many nerfs, which was probably why SJ and Alzarath stopped playing her.
XDest Posted February 1, 2011 Posted February 1, 2011 Well, you think about that, but how about the people that have started and stayed with Tsubaki, or even switched to her? She has the same type of work hard -> no reward. She's a rushdown character without any good pressure. Yet, I'm pretty sure the people that stick with her have fun playing as her. A lot of it is expectations. When you're used to a good Rachel, and are handed a shit Rachel, you're not going to have fun. When you're handed a shit Tager, that's business as usual for you. Tager has never been good.
Dorro Posted February 1, 2011 Posted February 1, 2011 In relation to the above I can attest to having fun after switching (sub) to Tsubaki. I hardly ever win with her even when putting forth best effort, but I enjoy her for that reason: I *have* to put out my best effort, all the time. Every battle is a rush. That and when I do win, it feels like the best thing ever =x In relation to recent videos, seeing the stuff Buppa does with Hazama makes me feel guilty, knowing in a month or two I'll be doing similar. He could be pretty deadly before but, damn.
kodimt Posted February 1, 2011 Posted February 1, 2011 Isn't Platinum's Swallow Moon and jD Frying Pan mixup basically the same thing? Maybe you can mash a DP through it.
A.X.I.S. Posted February 1, 2011 Posted February 1, 2011 I think what hes getting at is the fact that while its not entirely new to fighters, its not something many other characters have and in most cases outside a few characters like arakune, overheads are not that fast and as such it makes her mix up exponentially stronger than others since in most cases you can just watch and react. Arakune has a fast overhead? Oh you mean Rising j.C...it has enough start up to block it, I am more worried about it crossing up which can happen. Um you guys do know you can beat rising j.A by blocking high during jump start up which isn't even hard to see at all.
TD Posted February 1, 2011 Posted February 1, 2011 @kodim, watch jp come up with some crazy shit like frying pan j.d, swallow moon, j.c, j.d, Dj.d. Like 4 overheads. I will just fucking lol.
Sahgren Posted February 1, 2011 Posted February 1, 2011 @kodim, watch jp come up with some crazy shit like frying pan j.d, swallow moon, j.c, j.d, Dj.d. Like 4 overheads. I will just fucking lol. If at first you don't succeed, try, try again.
Yoshara Posted February 1, 2011 Posted February 1, 2011 "They may see the first one coming, maybe even the second one, and the third one if they get lucky, but there is no way in hell they will see the fourth overhead in a row!"
OmniSScythe Posted February 1, 2011 Posted February 1, 2011 "They may see the first one coming, maybe even the second one, and the third one if they get lucky, but there is no way in hell they will see the fourth overhead in a row!" - CT Rachel Fixed
killionaire Posted February 1, 2011 Posted February 1, 2011 Um you guys do know you can beat rising j.A by blocking high during jump start up which isn't even hard to see at all. Rachel skype chat determined that it's 4 frames of jump + 8 of j.a startup. That's 12 frames.. Are we messing up with our math somewhere?
huey253 Posted February 2, 2011 Posted February 2, 2011 hahaha correct. nobody is blocking 12 frame overheads or 10 frame lows on reaction. thats why i think its pretty silly... in cs, Litchi had instant overheads on 2 characters, but couldn't combo off it without meter. CS2 rachel can do it to everybody except litchi with the cost of one wind
Nini Heart Posted February 2, 2011 Posted February 2, 2011 TBH, i'm more worried about platinum's armor breaking hammer than rachel's overhead. I'm pretty sure you can react to a jumping animation. Reaction is more about audiovisual cues than frames for me TBH.
killionaire Posted February 2, 2011 Posted February 2, 2011 As to whether the overhead is reactable through any other means is beyond my very minimal knowledge of the game. In before dustloop starts bashing rachel for one single move like they tend to do with a character every installment.
A.X.I.S. Posted February 2, 2011 Posted February 2, 2011 hahaha correct. nobody is blocking 12 frame overheads or 10 frame lows on reaction. I IB Haku-mens 3C offline. Its not too hard Ibing a rising poke, Litchi had a 14F overhead on Tager and I block that regularly. Not saying I am the god of blocking or anything like that. Just saying that you can see the jump start up and block accordingly..That's pretty much what I do.
Kuuhaku Posted February 2, 2011 Posted February 2, 2011 hahaha correct. nobody is blocking 12 frame overheads or 10 frame lows on reaction. thats why i think its pretty silly... in cs, Litchi had instant overheads on 2 characters, but couldn't combo off it without meter. CS2 rachel can do it to everybody except litchi with the cost of one wind No. You need 2 winds. 1 wind to make jA hit, another wind for the actual combo part... Unless somehow 3D jA 5B 3C frog is that big of an issue. While I personally would have preferred if j2C was an overhead instead of jA, I still don't think it's that huge of a deal. Though I guess if you want to complain about how jA is the one thing that makes her broken... then you have to wonder why it didn't work out so well for her in CS1 with jB (which is one frame slower than jA). Or her jC which is also 8 frames...
huey253 Posted February 2, 2011 Posted February 2, 2011 (edited) nope! jA hits rising. you only need one wind to combo. its also an overhead in CS2, which wasn't the case in CS1. jB doesn't hit rising. jC also doesn't hit rising. to even get jB and jC to hit, you need to use 3D first. jA is back to CT status except its 1 frame slower and leads into less damage :3 Edited February 2, 2011 by huey253
Varamathras Posted February 2, 2011 Posted February 2, 2011 nope! jA hits rising. you only need one wind to combo. its also an overhead in CS2, which wasn't the case in CS1. jB doesn't hit rising. jC also doesn't hit rising. to even get jB and jC to hit, you need to use 3D first. jA is back to CT status except its 1 frame slower and leads into less damage :3 Your the last person who should be complaining about this Huey. It's like Bang's 5A. Everyone complained about it despite not actually being what makes him so great. If your going to whine about Rachel, whine about 5B 2B *n autopilot pressure. This is far more broken.
killionaire Posted February 2, 2011 Posted February 2, 2011 (edited) Your the last person who should be complaining about this Huey. It's like Bang's 5A. Everyone complained about it despite not actually being what makes him so great. If your going to whine about Rachel, whine about 5B 2B *n autopilot pressure. This is far more broken. Please. Let's not make assumptions. Huey.. You are saying that due to the IB nerf, using a rising j.a is essentially gapless? According to the chat, this is what you are saying. Verdict: We have determined that Huey is correct in his analysis, but he's overblowing the importance of the move. According to Polka, due to j.a causing the combo to do less damage overall, there needs to be meter and a good corner to make maximal use of it. Let's hope this settles things. EDIT: Watched a video.. You still wind before the j.a hits. So you might be wrong there. still really fast though. Might not be easy to react to. Edited February 2, 2011 by killionaire
TD Posted February 2, 2011 Posted February 2, 2011 Your the last person who should be complaining about this Huey. It's like Bang's 5A. Everyone complained about it despite not actually being what makes him so great. If your going to whine about Rachel, whine about 5B 2B *n autopilot pressure. This is far more broken. not really. 5b 3c is just as good. the only difference is you could probably get a better combo with 2b. but you also have to be in range. not something i'd call broken, just a buff (frn...).
Varamathras Posted February 2, 2011 Posted February 2, 2011 not really. 5b 3c is just as good. the only difference is you could probably get a better combo with 2b. but you also have to be in range. not something i'd call broken, just a buff (frn...). I said 5B 2B times n. The fact that it's easy to go back into 5B makes for an extremely easy hit confirm string and potential for mixups. Wind can be used to keep her in range.
huey253 Posted February 2, 2011 Posted February 2, 2011 (edited) Your the last person who should be complaining about this Huey. It's like Bang's 5A. Everyone complained about it despite not actually being what makes him so great. If your going to whine about Rachel, whine about 5B 2B *n autopilot pressure. This is far more broken. i'm tried to drop it, but someone posted incorrect information on the subject. if you can't tell me the difference between bang having 5B 2B pressure and rachel's 5B 2B jA pressure, you should go do some research. oh, you don't have to use wind to get jA to hit, just to combo. EDIT: since the hitboxes for cs1 and cs2 are similar, i decided to turn on my ps3 and see if jA hits crouching without wind. So far its has hakumen and tager. (those are probably it) i do recall saying something about it doing less damage..... flame someone else :3 Edited February 2, 2011 by huey253
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