A.X.I.S. Posted August 25, 2011 Author Posted August 25, 2011 Making you rely on grabs by nerfing damage from combos doesn't work though since everyone will just be jumping out all over the place since they have nothing to fear from non-combo damage... so it'll make it harder to rely on grabs. I guess that might make people easier to predict though. 5B>5C comboing gives us a reason to stagger our pokes. The 5A change makes it easier to confirm too.
OrionXElite Posted August 25, 2011 Posted August 25, 2011 One thing to keep in mind is that I believe we have also been given back our Self Canceling 5A as there was an overall system change that allows anyone with a Self Canceling 5A to do it up to 3 times. I'd like to hope they apply that to Tager for the sake of making his pressure better but we'll see. 5B Jump cancel: I think this is great, gives us better pressure and more options. VTC 720 Canceling off it will be fine so long as you can do it :3 3C techable/Special cancel: Very odd change to me. Means unless they change something about ASledge to let it be combo'd after, our only option is gonna be Spark. I would've rather had a 3C>4D gatling. But I suppose there is the possibility of ending a combo on something like AC>4D>Whiff>3C and then Cancel that into XYH for some free Spark meter. More untech time on Spark: This is good, means we can make our combos longer, easier. This is also a counterbalance to the increase in repeat proration to Collider so something like AC>Spark>GF is most likely a viable option in more cases now. Now if it creates an Untechable Knockdown on CH, that would be a huge buff cause it would make it even easier to combo full screen off of it when dealing with Lambda/Mu/Arakune bullshit. More untech time on Collider: Good change, gives us more time to combo after and probably some new combo routes will become available cause of it. This is also fair to counter balance the extra repeat proration their giving it. More harsh repeat proration on Collider: ehhh...Not sure why, but whatever. BSledge more recovery: I can't say anything until I know how much but even then, this is kinda silly:v: It was only +3 so no real reason to kill that. These have to be the weirdest changes I've ever seen for Tager, can't wait to see the final product :3
LunaKage Posted August 25, 2011 Posted August 25, 2011 Orion, shouldn't you be over in the Valk thread with yo knowledge and shit?
Osmond Posted August 25, 2011 Posted August 25, 2011 Making you rely on grabs by nerfing damage from combos doesn't work though since everyone will just be jumping out all over the place since they have nothing to fear from non-combo damage... so it'll make it harder to rely on grabs. The busters are really good for punishing whiffs and reckless approaches. That is something they can do exceedingly well but it should not be the only thing to count on, I mean you give him enough weaknesses defending why make his offense harder to work with as well? But this is a lot of bad thinking for one nerf. Not like using collider more then once a combo was a very good idea for damage in the first place. Again we do not know is going to stick or not...I wonder though, if any of the other changes from the last one make it through. I did think voltic heart was kinda interesting.
LunaKage Posted August 25, 2011 Posted August 25, 2011 Tager's 5A should be chargeable, and have projectile invuln.
OrionXElite Posted August 25, 2011 Posted August 25, 2011 Orion, shouldn't you be over in the Valk thread with yo knowledge and shit? I already was, the conversation is over already:v: [W]5B got Head Invul back, w00t :3
Manta Posted August 25, 2011 Posted August 25, 2011 asledge air hit into 2B > 2C is currently legit. If they're low to the ground. If they buff the unteachable on A sledge then [3C > 236A] x Nn would be both possible and hilarious.
LunaKage Posted August 25, 2011 Posted August 25, 2011 I already was, the conversation is over already:v: [W]5B got Head Invul back, w00t :3 orz Foreverbadmatchups.jpg
FlyingVe Posted August 25, 2011 Posted August 25, 2011 nope. It done been dropped... Normally, I might analyze these changes a bit, but this whole loketest seemed weird to me, so I don't see alot of what they did sticking around.
OrionXElite Posted August 25, 2011 Posted August 25, 2011 asledge air hit into 2B > 2C is currently legit. If they're low to the ground. If they buff the unteachable on A sledge then [3C > 236A] x Nn would be both possible and hilarious. Well I was doing my own theory combos in training mode and just doing 3C>RC>ASledge and I could link a 5A>5B but not 2B cause they weren't high enough. So maybe something along the lines of 5A>5B>5C>6A>AC>4DWhiff>3C>VTC is possible. Hmmmm...Interesting
Osmond Posted August 25, 2011 Posted August 25, 2011 (edited) Invul only on full charge or standard? Hur hur hur Because besides making Noel's life more of a hell, it would do much good against characters with real projectiles who could just punish him on the recovery I need to stop taking 12 years to reply Edited August 25, 2011 by Osmond
TagerTime Posted August 25, 2011 Posted August 25, 2011 here is some extra info from hakimiru Spark Bolt - P1 proration slightly weakened. However, air untechable time is greatly increased. B Sledgehammer - Now roughly neutral on block, but can be charged, making it harder to IB.
FlyingVe Posted August 25, 2011 Posted August 25, 2011 How does charging it make it harder to IB? It's slow as shit in December.
Osuna Posted August 25, 2011 Posted August 25, 2011 So whenever we get new combo routes when need damage proration nerfs all over the place? Also there's no need to even IB and even slower Bsledge. just stuff it.
TagerTime Posted August 25, 2011 Posted August 25, 2011 This is a question for OrionXElite, i have taught myself how to do VTC720 easily and consistently from all of tagers moves and on whiff. The problem i have is when i do it from 5A or 2A on hit or on block i almost always get a purple 720. if i try to slow it down so it doenst purple then i miss the 11 frame window. How do you do it so you dont get a purple 720 off of 5A or 2A?
Isorropia Posted August 25, 2011 Posted August 25, 2011 Don't slow it down as in spin the stick slower, slow it down as in just start the entire motion later. The jump cancel can happen anywhere during 5As recovery, or you can even just 5A, let it end, then do a VTC standing 720.
CrazyI-nomitsu Posted August 25, 2011 Posted August 25, 2011 The new list buffs and nerfs for the big guy makes me wanna come off my break from this game. All the untechable time means lots of fun. My question is: Do we get legit tech traps(FOR ONCE!) and setups or is this just more gimmicks?
OrionXElite Posted August 25, 2011 Posted August 25, 2011 This is a question for OrionXElite, i have taught myself how to do VTC720 easily and consistently from all of tagers moves and on whiff. The problem i have is when i do it from 5A or 2A on hit or on block i almost always get a purple 720. if i try to slow it down so it doenst purple then i miss the 11 frame window. How do you do it so you dont get a purple 720 off of 5A or 2A? Why are doing it for whiffed moves?? You don't need to do that for any move, just 720 during the recovery and hit C once its over. As for your question, Isorropia answered it right. Start the entire motion later during the recovery of the 5A. Make sure you learn the different timing for hit on Block, Instant Block, Barrier Block, Hit and Counterhit. Most people have issues cause they just regulate themselves to one timing and its usually the block timing which is bad cause if it ever hits them, you're gonna purple grab.
TagerTime Posted August 25, 2011 Posted August 25, 2011 Why are doing it for whiffed moves?? You don't need to do that for any move, just 720 during the recovery and hit C once its over. Yes i already know that. What i specificaly meant by saying on whiff was just that i can do VTC 720 from anymove anywhere.
OrionXElite Posted August 25, 2011 Posted August 25, 2011 Yes i already know that. What i specificaly meant by saying on whiff was just that i can do VTC 720 from anymove anywhere. But my point is you're using a buffer for something that already has a buffer. The VTC is you buffer, not a normal AND VTC. Whiff 5A>VTC 720 is 17 extra Frames of completely unnecessary buffer for it.
CrazyI-nomitsu Posted August 25, 2011 Posted August 25, 2011 And my question goes unanswered. I just wanted to know all this untechable time were getting for CS2+means legit traps instead of BS. Help a brother out ya'll.
Isorropia Posted August 25, 2011 Posted August 25, 2011 Untechable time means it's easier to combo moves together. It does nothing for traps, they still have access to the same tech options and those tech options still beat our traps in the ways they always have. Even the most legit of tech traps is beatable.
TagerTime Posted August 25, 2011 Posted August 25, 2011 But my point is you're using a buffer for something that already has a buffer. The VTC is you buffer, not a normal AND VTC. Whiff 5A>VTC 720 is 17 extra Frames of completely unnecessary buffer for it. Again i already know that. I can easily and consistently do 2a whiff 720. My point that i was trying to get across was that I have no problem doing VTC720 at all whatsoever. Only that i had a problem doing non whiff 5A or 2A VTC720 without getting purple.
CrazyI-nomitsu Posted August 25, 2011 Posted August 25, 2011 Untechable time means it's easier to combo moves together. It does nothing for traps, they still have access to the same tech options and those tech options still beat our traps in the ways they always have. Even the most legit of tech traps is beatable. That is so lame, but making our already easy combos even easier ISN'T THAT bad I guess.
OrionXElite Posted August 25, 2011 Posted August 25, 2011 Well then yeah, its just a delay thing. Instead of slowing down the whole motion, you just need to start the whole thing later.
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