Seiki Posted April 2, 2011 Posted April 2, 2011 for a character to only offer one thing is a one dimensional character in my opinion. All I am saying is that all she brings to the table is combo potential but she has nothing else outside of that and that is why she is going to go down in the tier list. What is the point in doing all those nice combos when you can't crack the opponent open and land the first hit. You know why Ragnas in Japan didn't place high in CS1? because they figured out how to block his blockstrings and that's all they needed to do. She is one dimensional because she only does one thing:comboing. In every Blazblue game Tao has started low or mid tier and by the end of the game's life she is in at least upper mid or higher. Know why? Because tao has mobility options, mix-ups, tech trap setups, etc. Yeah noel is flexible...in doing COMBOS is she flexible in moving around? lol no. Does she have good mix-ups? lol her overhead has like one way to gatling into and the overhead in her drive is predictable when it comes out so no good mix-ups. Her drives are fast and she can do a raw drive because of the invincibility frames but D spamming doesn't work ever since people learned to deal with that stuff in CT. All of her options just revolve around doing combos that's all. And finally no it's not at all like saying tager revolves around grabbing (which he doesn't) or arakune's curse or lambda's zoning is one dimensional. First off I am talking about options. Yes lambda zones but she has a variety of tools to do that. arakune's game plan does revolve around curse but he doesn't just spam the d button he has to set-up his bell bug etc. They have a variety options to do what they are good at. Noel does combos but those combos mean nothing until she can land that first hit and she doesn't have any good tools to land those first hits.
Astaroth136 Posted April 2, 2011 Posted April 2, 2011 FYI, Tager is now all about the grabs. His combo potential from 360 grabs increased, while his normal combo potential decreased.
LastStarSaviour Posted April 2, 2011 Posted April 2, 2011 Seiki, i've got to disagree with you my friend. Noel has plenty to offer outside of her combos, her blockstrings have proven that many times over. She has so many options to trap your opponent in mindgames plus a few prediction tools as well. As for her mobility, sure she can't fly in the air for hours on end like Arakune or dash across the stage like Tao but she makes up for all that with her increase run speed. To be honest, Noel wasn't really meant for aerial mobility anyways and frankly, her aerial combo sucks.However calling Noel one-dimensional would be a terribly grave mistake to make dude. If you want to categorize her as that then like Jackie said, you need to throw the whole cast in there, especially Bang. Noel's tools may be hard to really see or understand for that matter but they are there. I will admit it takes a lot to make Noel look good but that's what I love about her.
LastStarSaviour Posted April 2, 2011 Posted April 2, 2011 That was pretty epic dude. Thanks for posting that vid, makes me wanna have a training montage for some reason. *Turns on Rocky Theme* AWWWW YEEEEEAAAAA!!!!!
Milln Posted April 2, 2011 Author Posted April 2, 2011 What is this, land of double post? Start talking about Armored Core or Suguri or something. Your arguments are all one-dimensional. Lawl
Seiki Posted April 2, 2011 Posted April 2, 2011 LSS what examples do you have? You just said she does but haven't given me any specific examples. What prediction tools? what mind games? And besides that's very vague; every character has "prediction tools" and "mindgames". @Astaroth - Tager might be able to combo more from his grabs but I doubt that it is worth revolving strategies around it for that increase in damage. Especially since 360's require characters to be on the ground and not in blockstun the move still has a lot of risk for it to be a consistently reliable tool. And there are oh so many 360 set-ups that given some time will become predictable and gimmicky just like in CT and just like in CS1. Changes to Atomic collider's grab box and super armor on 6A can open up the opponent's defense and CH will lead to big damage.
Eshi Posted April 2, 2011 Posted April 2, 2011 this is a strange conversation. Noel is going to be really solid in CS2 between her new gatlings, buffed j4D, 6A's old hitbox, etc. Getting a drive blocked isn't complete suicide anymore thanks to the IB nerf and buff to 236A. She can combo for 4k midscreen from some of her best moves, which a lot of characters can't do except other really good ones. In my opinion there's no way she'll be below mid-high rank, she's so much better than in CS. Tager will still suck, of course.
Seiki Posted April 2, 2011 Posted April 2, 2011 I agree that she is a solid character, but I don't think she is S tier quality. Anyone can go into training mode and learn her gatlings. When you know her or anyone's gatlings blockstrings and mix-ups are more predictable and easier to react to. She does great damage and she is pretty safe but at the end of CS2's life she isn't going to be S tier and might be possibly at the lower end of A tier because all she does are combos she has no good ways of opening people's defense up which is really vital to her since she can't zone, her command grab doesn't grab crouching characters, etc. Point is she is going to have the same fundamental problem she has had since CT. All they did to her was make her safer and gave her more damage.
LastStarSaviour Posted April 3, 2011 Posted April 3, 2011 I agree that she is a solid character, but I don't think she is S tier quality. Anyone can go into training mode and learn her gatlings. When you know her or anyone's gatlings blockstrings and mix-ups are more predictable and easier to react to. She does great damage and she is pretty safe but at the end of CS2's life she isn't going to be S tier and might be possibly at the lower end of A tier because all she does are combos she has no good ways of opening people's defense up which is really vital to her since she can't zone, her command grab doesn't grab crouching characters, etc. Point is she is going to have the same fundamental problem she has had since CT. All they did to her was make her safer and gave her more damage. *Sighs* how much CS2 Noel gameplay have you seen exactly? I want to know where YOU are drawing your facts from. Plus, why is this argument even relevent? Noel is going to be greatness, Bang isn't. Enough said. Stop trolling Seiki.
LastStarSaviour Posted April 3, 2011 Posted April 3, 2011 (edited) LSS what examples do you have? You just said she does but haven't given me any specific examples. What prediction tools? what mind games? And besides that's very vague; every character has "prediction tools" and "mindgames". As for my examples, just look up CS2 vids and watch her in action and STOP TROLLING. We're very sorry that Bang isn't completely easy to use now but calling every character free is not getting you anywhere. Because to be quite honest Bang is about the most free character i've ever seen. Edited April 3, 2011 by LastStarSaviour
Astaroth136 Posted April 3, 2011 Posted April 3, 2011 Seiki, quit trolling. It's causing double-post galore. From what I've read/heard/seen, top 4 in CS2 are Makoto, Litchi, Jin, and Noel (in that order maybe...). Tier lists are always debatable, so w/e.
Seiki Posted April 3, 2011 Posted April 3, 2011 LSS I'm not comparing Noel to Bang, I am not trolling, I am not calling every character free, I was just talking about Noel, I was not being literal when I said Noel is free, my opinions are supported by watching CS2 tournament videos from Japan, and obviously you haven't watched the 124 man team tournament in nagoya street battle where a team with a bang made it to grand finals and along the way the bang player beat the 2010 SBO champ Chou's Litchi. Know who didn't make it to Grand Finals or even top 4?......................................................................................yeah. There are plenty of other examples but w/e I'm done arguing.
Alphakami Posted April 3, 2011 Posted April 3, 2011 I basically ignore the existence of tier other than a general guide line. Tiers are like religions, only a little more scientific. Play the people, it's much more fun. See sig for details.
Astaroth136 Posted April 3, 2011 Posted April 3, 2011 Hahaha! Leave it to Tad to come in, set everybody straight with a simple analogy, refer to his sig (which, in my unbiased opinion is a great sig), and go back into hiding in the shadows. It wasn't even a drunk post either...
LastStarSaviour Posted April 3, 2011 Posted April 3, 2011 (edited) Lol, guess we can just let our opinions stay as they are now seeing as neither side will not bow (fucking love that song) XD. Like Tad said, let's just play the characters I guess. Damnit Tad, that was so anti-climactic. Didn't even let the suspense build to the final boss fight. DAMNIT TAD!!! Edited April 3, 2011 by LastStarSaviour
LastStarSaviour Posted April 3, 2011 Posted April 3, 2011 O yeah, since we finally got Tad to resurface from the depths I want to ask about that fightstick, Have you stuck a price on how much you selling them for or what?
Astaroth136 Posted April 3, 2011 Posted April 3, 2011 Hey Chandler, how did that tournament go? I saw that BoomCube took 1st in mvc3. Since you were at a tournament, I won't ask how the videos are coming along... yet.
Alphakami Posted April 3, 2011 Posted April 3, 2011 I love the sig, it's what I'd say if I won shit occasionally. L double S: I won't sell one, but I'll happily let you borrow my red PS3 Sanwa stick for a few months. The owner won't be back in the USA for 3 more years. See if you really like a stick for a while, if you do then we can get you hooked up. You can come down and pick it up anytime next week or after, or I'll bring it to you at the next MTNG. Can't wait to get back to gaming next month.
Milln Posted April 3, 2011 Author Posted April 3, 2011 We can't wait -for- you, Tad. We all heart ya. Check out Acceleration of Suguri-X, Armored Core: For Answer, and Arcana Heart 3. Lookin' at those for additions to the lineup.
LastStarSaviour Posted April 3, 2011 Posted April 3, 2011 I love the sig, it's what I'd say if I won shit occasionally. L double S: I won't sell one, but I'll happily let you borrow my red PS3 Sanwa stick for a few months. The owner won't be back in the USA for 3 more years. See if you really like a stick for a while, if you do then we can get you hooked up. You can come down and pick it up anytime next week or after, or I'll bring it to you at the next MTNG. Can't wait to get back to gaming next month. Alright dude, i'll take you up on that offer. Also, TAD FOR MTN.....what is this one? number 5? Anyways, TAD FOR MTN5!!! GET HYPE!!!
LastStarSaviour Posted April 3, 2011 Posted April 3, 2011 You know what, think i'll double post troll for a bit. I've kind of gotten used to it now, XD
Astaroth136 Posted April 3, 2011 Posted April 3, 2011 I love the sig, it's what I'd say if I won shit occasionally. I mainly said that to troll Midnight, since I've recently been raping that Litchi like the whore she is... in a 2-8 matchup. lol We can't wait -for- you, Tad. We all heart ya. Check out Acceleration of Suguri-X, Armored Core: For Answer, and Arcana Heart 3. Lookin' at those for additions to the lineup. Don't only two people play AH3? That acceleration game looked crazy, but I never tried it. It'll be interesting to see how Armored Core works. I still think mvc3 (and cs2 when it hits) draws the most attention right now.
Milln Posted April 3, 2011 Author Posted April 3, 2011 (edited) Don't only two people play AH3? That acceleration game looked crazy, but I never tried it. It'll be interesting to see how Armored Core works. I still think mvc3 (and cs2 when it hits) draws the most attention right now. Two plus a bunch of people that "like" it. I doubt they want to invest time because they know it's out of the way to obtain right now. Acceleration of Suguri-X is crazy. CRAZY FUN. I'm thinking up fun things for Armored Core. It definitely will be interesting. Edit: I just did some more -actual- research on Armored Core, and if we run it, it will flop. Sorry, but nevermind. I'd rather run something like Castlevania: Judgment, than AC. You're correct on the attention getter. Edit: Oh speaking of attention, do we have an update on Skullgirls? Edited April 3, 2011 by Milln
Astaroth136 Posted April 3, 2011 Posted April 3, 2011 Edit: Oh speaking of attention, do we have an update on Skullgirls? Eh, no "yes or no" from Mike Z, and we've messaged back and forth a few times ever since I asked if we could test it or something. I messaged him about including a training mode tool that allowed the player to set a "restart point" mid-combo, to alleviate the hassle of repositioning and restarting the combo. His response was that it's already in the works, and something about being able to start playing from anywhere in a replay. How awesome is that?
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