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[Milln]

Hei from Darker Than Black is extremely free

I dunno, man, he's got a sword on a cord. It's a cord sword. Me and Naimat saw that crap, Swords on Cords is OP.

[Volpe-de-Glacio]

He got extremely complacent when he got his powers. He's got godlike rush-down and zoning tools but he's terrible at mindgames. He has no tactical foresight because his risk is getting put in a position where somebody has to save him or he gets knocked out and his reward is an instant kill. He pulls the wool over your eyes cuz he looks like a fuggin' badass while he does it.

[LastStarSaviour]

Nah, after analyzing all of Hei's fights, we've decided to brand him as High A. let's look at the facts:

* Hei has amazing rush-down (His ability to get in on an opponent is wow.)

* His risk-reward is OP (His risk is him screwing up, getting injured, and inevitably saved by someone. His reward, an Instant-kill)

* His yomi is lacking (Has a somewhat hard time opening people up. I guess this could be countered by him having the cord that wraps around someone's neck easily and sets up for instant-kills. Plus his knives are instant-kills as well.)

Edited May 3, 2012 by LastStarSaviour

[Volpe-de-Glacio]

So what was up with that vlog thing you were talking about, Tad?

[Milln]

Nah, after analyzing all of Hei's fights, we've decided to brand him as High A. let's look at the facts:

* Hei has amazing rush-down (His ability to get in on an opponent is wow.)

* His risk-reward is OP (His risk is him screwing up, getting injured, and inevitably saved by someone. His reward, an Instant-kill)

* His yomi is lacking (Has a somewhat hard time opening people up. I guess this could be countered by him having the cord that wraps around someone's neck easily and sets up for instant-kills. Plus his knives are instant-kills as well.)

Amazing Rush Down: This is for my argument

Risk Reward: He gets injured, i'd say on purpose to make people stop thinking, then he wupps that A.

Yomi Lacking: You sure? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OH7VTC_szRw

[Volpe-de-Glacio]

Well I mean when you state the facts you state the facts, regardless of what they point to. I'm not saying he isn't a beast, just that he's free when you evaluate his performance and then the tools available to him. Generally the only case for his mind games is Hei vs. Wei and MAYBE a few others. Haven't seen the first season in a good minute. In 1v1, he typically ends up needing rescue in one form or another. I honestly think he just doesn't give a fuck whether he lives or dies.

[LuminAbyss]

Doesn't matter.

Kenshiro's solid normals would destroy his rushdown game.

[LastStarSaviour]

Amazing Rush Down: This is for my argument

Risk Reward: He gets injured, i'd say on purpose to make people stop thinking, then he wupps that A.

Yomi Lacking: You sure? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OH7VTC_szRw

You have to look at all of his fights overall (including ones in the manga). I find the best example to base my case on was in the final manga when he fought Uber Soldier. That was a prime example of hei's skill pushed to the limit and he barely won due to him getting a quick power up. Don't get me wrong, Hei is a freaking monster and can stand his own against other characters. However, if you put him in a tournament, I guarantee he would place high (maybe top 8) but he definitely wouldn't take first or second.

[Milln]

I honestly think he just doesn't give a fuck whether he lives or dies.

he really doesn't. Especially in season two.

[Volpe-de-Glacio]

All I'm sayin' is an entirely pragmatic, legitimate contractor Hei for Season 3 would be godlike. Probably too godlike. But I'll be damned if that wouldn't be an amazing watch.

[LuminAbyss]

So Milln. Does this make for a good HD combo for Flame Iori?

jump C > cl.C > fr.A > HDC > cl.C > qcb.A > qcb.A > DC qcb.AC > qcb.A > Maiden Masher > Neo Max

Does around 818. I figure for four stock, I could be doing better, but I honestly have no idea. What do you think?

[Milln]

You have to look at all of his fights overall (including ones in the manga). I find the best example to base my case on was in the final manga when he fought Uber Soldier. That was a prime example of hei's skill pushed to the limit and he barely won due to him getting a quick power up. Don't get me wrong, Hei is a freaking monster and can stand his own against other characters. However, if you put him in a tournament, I guarantee he would place high (maybe top 8) but he definitely wouldn't take first or second.

So then he's not... Free.. D= I don't understand.

Swords on cords.

@Ghost of Lumin: 818 for a 4 meter HD combo sounds okay. I mean, everyone only has 1000 life. It does 80.2% damage. Look at it that way. Not everyone can 100%. However I'm on my phone at present, at an avengers party, I'll get you a better response when I get home.

Edited May 4, 2012 by Milln

[Volpe-de-Glacio]

He pulls through due to plot armor and ridiculous tools that he just spams with the finesse of a stylish Ragna. Hence, freedom. Or rather, he's free relative to his true potential. He squanders his tier by fighting poorly. He puts up the front of a highly skilled assassin, but in the end it's just muscle memory from his more skilled days. His execution is still up there, but he gets in to play two player training mode. He's clumsy (for him), predictable, and he's very bad at adapting mid-fight.

Edited May 4, 2012 by Volpe-de-Glacio

[Milln]

I don't think that's the case.

I didn't catch anything after Season 1, but in all his Season 1 fights he's pretty solid. I heard that in Season 2 he just becomes drunk and complains a lot, so to put it in FG terms, he stopped playing the game.

HOWEVER. I was checking out a fight and there was a comment: I'll use that for my argument.

How could he have been easily stomped by the nude teleporter. He nearly kills her twice, forcing her to run away.

Hei had multiple chances to kill contractors like Amber and decided not to because he still has a heart.

At 0:35 he had it won, instead of killing her he stopped.

Also, what hero doesn't get "stomped" once in a while. Remember, In Dragon Ball Z Goku got stomped often. That shitty Naruto guy get's stomped often. If the main character always won it wouldn't be fun.

So yeah, definitely. I think it's a combination of Hei not caring anymore, and not wanting to kill others. In the mentioned video, at 0:35, Hei nails her with his wire thing and could have easily electrocuted her and won it, but simply didn't.

Edit: Nevermind, I was told that Hei doesn't have his powers in this fight. Well big deal, he put up a good fight as a normal person.

Edit edit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_133626&src_vid=XnaPGd5MOiU&v=g91ZJOsL-Vc&feature=iv He beats her ASS in the fight before. And then just leaves when he could finish her off. I stand by Hei is a badass and can do whatever he wants to people, just chooses not to.

Edited May 4, 2012 by Milln

[LastStarSaviour]

Milln, you do know Amber can body Hei for less than free right? Amber lets Hei get the jump on her most of the time due to the fact that she understands his nature almost like the back of her hand. She has time traveled multiple times and saved Hei's rear just as many times. In the manga, Hei and Harvest even had a conversation about how Amber had been setting up his life to prepare him for their fight. If Hei really wanted to kill Amber he would have to put in work, and the chances of him still killing her is slim to none. I do agree he is a badass, but doing whatever he wants to everyone, idk bro.

Also, it is nice to see the main character lose once in a while. Unfortunately, Naruto hasn't lost a fight since the Sasuke chase arc, and from the way they keep buffing him, it doesn't look like he's going to be losing any in the future either.

Edited May 4, 2012 by LastStarSaviour

[Volpe-de-Glacio]

He didn't have his powers at that point, he was limited to pulling on the wire to set her off balance. (Which he could have gotten creative with, instead of standing there like an easy target.) I'm leaning toward him throwing that one, though. He had a chance to create an opening that he apparently refused to take advantage of. Just something in the way he mentioned the other character made it seemed like he had this planned. Because it's just the kinda guy I am, I'm probably going to re-watch season 1 just to analyze his tactics and break it down into a tl;dr nerd-fest.

He's still skilled in Season 2, he's just mopey and crap due to plot. He fights on par with that chick once, then beats her with a single punch to the diaphragm in another encounter. In the rest of his few other 1v1s he needs to be saved from the brink of death, and I recall him needing a good bit of help in the first season too.

I don't mind when the main character loses, I just hate when he doesn't lose realistically. If someone has an opportunity to strike (especially someone trained in dealing with contractors since adolescence), they should take it, or at least attempt to. I see Hei hesitate far too often; it's like they crank up the derp just for plot convenience. It's either that or he's just extremely complacent due to acquiring powers; several characters have even commented on the decline in his skill.

Edited May 4, 2012 by Volpe-de-Glacio

[Milln]

Milln, you do know Amber can body Hei for less than free right? Amber lets Hei get the jump on her most of the time due to the fact that she understands his nature almost like the back of her hand. She has time traveled multiple times and saved Hei's rear just as many times. In the manga, Hei and Harvest even had a conversation about how Amber had been setting up his life to prepare him for their fight. If Hei really wanted to kill Amber he would have to put in work, and the chances of him still killing her is slim to none. I do agree he is a badass, but doing whatever he wants to everyone, idk bro.

Also, it is nice to see the main character lose once in a while. Unfortunately, Naruto hasn't lost a fight since the Sasuke chase arc, and from the way they keep buffing him, it doesn't look like he's going to be losing any in the future either.

If you're using solely Amber as an example, then of course he'll seem easy to be (You really should stop using the word 'free' so much) beat. It's like saying Scissors sucks because Rock has a 10-0 matchup against it.

I think the only reason I decided to say something was because I disagreed with your verbage. Maybe Hei isn't a great hero. He definitely needs help just like any other hero. He also still does really well against lots of enemies; named or not. He isn't FREE. If he was, he'd lose every single time, which he doesn't. Ya know? I don't think that word means what you think it means.

[Milln]

So Milln. Does this make for a good HD combo for Flame Iori?

jump C > cl.C > fr.A > HDC > cl.C > qcb.A > qcb.A > DC qcb.AC > qcb.A > Maiden Masher > Neo Max

Does around 818. I figure for four stock, I could be doing better, but I honestly have no idea. What do you think?

Alright, just now looked at your notation. Yeah, you can definitely be doing better.

In your CURRENT combo, you can drop the Rekka string at the 2nd EX Rekka and throw a shoryu in, THEN do your supers. That should at least help you start thinking.

What I recommend is do shoryu DC Rekka 1 loops. I forget at 3am if they have corner carry for midscreen, but at the edge of the screen you can get over 900 with it.

Speaking of over 900: This'll take a little bit more hitconfirm but HD directly after your first close C into another Close C > Far A. Reason why is the hit count. Far A gatling does less damage than a close C. and when you put that extra hit in between your close C's, you prorate your damage down. HD Earlier.

[LastStarSaviour]

Milln, no one uses the word "Free" correctly these days anymore. It's become an exaggerated metaphor. The word "Free" could even be implied to a simple loss, not necesarily someone being extremely lackluster in general.

I'm pretty sure I know my terminology.

Edited May 4, 2012 by LastStarSaviour

[Milln]

I'm aware if this, but the way you initiated the conversation, you said Hei, in general, is free which isn't the case.

Also Avengers. Who else saw it already?

[LastStarSaviour]

I believe Volpe initially started it, I forget at this point. I was going into the conversation thinking people weren't expecting the term "Free" to be literal at this point. It's been butchered over time and I wasn't aware people still took it as such, my mistake.

I haven't seen it yet, but I might. Is it worth my money(If not, I'll find other means of watching it)?

[Volpe-de-Glacio]

My point was Hei is free. . . Compared to Hei. He's still badass. @Avengers - Newton says it's good enough that he's going to go see it every day this weekend.

[Seiki]

Lol live action comic book movies make me laugh. The only cool one is Iron Man mainly because it looks plausible but it would be an Oriental/Indian piloting it. An American engineering the most sophisticated computer technology...please...

Men/women in tights throwing shit at each other. Idk just seems so silly and unrealistic but its trying to be serious with the whole live action thing it makes the whole thing feel ironic and thus comedic.

[Volpe-de-Glacio]

nostalgia all day err day

[Seiki]

Lol Star I feel like trolling you today: http://dreamcancel.com/2012/05/03/kof-i-2012-snkps-biggest-troll-attempt-yet/d833c895d143ad4bbd27f36482025aafa40f060c/

oh and of course for you Milln: http://dreamcancel.com/2012/05/03/kof-i-2012-snkps-biggest-troll-attempt-yet/e824b899a9014c08f0469d010a7b02087bf4f411/

Edited May 4, 2012 by Seiki