A.X.I.S. Posted May 11, 2011 Posted May 11, 2011 As usual lets fill this up with plentiful amounts of info. Name subject to change.
NaRD Posted May 21, 2011 Posted May 21, 2011 Just like in CT and CS before it, keep a close eye on Bang's drive. You can cancel most of your moves into a 360/720, causing a throw reject miss.
Bad Fish Posted May 27, 2011 Posted May 27, 2011 Just like in CT and CS before it, keep a close eye on Bang's drive. You can cancel most of your moves into a 360/720, causing a throw reject miss. this and hey!!! we fought plenty o times on psn today great matches dude!! most bangs i fight tend to play the distance game now, catching him is a pain but once u get in same rules apply, just be wary of his explosion super thing, its air unblockable. didnt know that and almost lost for that today....
Manta Posted July 8, 2011 Posted July 8, 2011 Just like in CT and CS before it, keep a close eye on Bang's drive. You can cancel most of your moves into a 360/720, causing a throw reject miss. Not quite true actually, what you can however do is cancel into normal throw from his weaker moves. Guaranteed throw counter. Watch for the teleport however. Also, if you hit his guard point with 5A, just keep jamming on 5A, there's nothing he can do about it except C teleport to put himself out of range. Other notes: Asledge his D nail, it will recover quick enough to block his run in, or the A sledge will actually hit him. BSledge is much less safe unless you get the spacing right Don't be predictable with spark bolt, this is good advice normally, but a plucky Bang can daifunka right through it! The rest is just good mixup defense fundamentals. Bang can go high, low and crossup with a lot of his moves, Learn which ones are overhead and the ones that just look like it (6A looks overhead-like but hits low, 6C looks overhead but is hard-coded to not hit crouching opponents, enjoy your free 360B). Void Tempest kick is 13 frame of startup, you should be able to sneak in your own throws quicker than that.
Dacidbro Posted July 8, 2011 Posted July 8, 2011 I wouldn't recommend Asledging the Dnails, it just gives him free mix up. Their blockstun is so low that if you jump and IB it, you're in literally 0 frames of blockstun, which is generally a much better "call out", since he has no guaranteed options and he just spent 3 valuable nails. Spark bolt at neutral is pretty bad against Bang in general, I would save it for combo filler or use it as a very strong read frame trap, after something like 5C if you expect a jump out (Just be wary of guard points; if you're smart on your conditioning this works) You will not be able to sneak in your own throws against his command grab, except for 720, because a wise Bang will always cover it with enough blockstun to make timing your throw a "just-frame" punish; rather, you just have Tager's normal advantage of having a 6 frame grab compared to "you must be 7 frames out of blockstun to not get purple thrown", inherently making grabbing tager risky. But don't just mash throw, it's very very easy to set up frame traps with Bang, so be careful. Be willing to use your reversals, magna tech is very good in this matchup. Recognize Bang has no true anti air except Ashura, so if he has no meter it's very gimmicky for him to anti-air Tager's godlike normals, usually can only be done with well placed 2D's to beat a super jump or smart 5A's or jump normals. Bumpers make this match harder, don't overcommit to anti airing his dashes, things that cover multiple options like jump back grab (covering forward bumper dash, maintaining neutral against all others) are useful. This match is relatively even.
Manta Posted July 8, 2011 Posted July 8, 2011 (edited) I wouldn't recommend Asledging the Dnails, it just gives him free mix up. Their blockstun is so low that if you jump and IB it, you're in literally 0 frames of blockstun, which is generally a much better "call out", since he has no guaranteed options and he just spent 3 valuable nails. Spark bolt at neutral is pretty bad against Bang in general, I would save it for combo filler or use it as a very strong read frame trap, after something like 5C if you expect a jump out (Just be wary of guard points; if you're smart on your conditioning this works) You will not be able to sneak in your own throws against his command grab, except for 720, because a wise Bang will always cover it with enough blockstun to make timing your throw a "just-frame" punish; rather, you just have Tager's normal advantage of having a 6 frame grab compared to "you must be 7 frames out of blockstun to not get purple thrown", inherently making grabbing tager risky. But don't just mash throw, it's very very easy to set up frame traps with Bang, so be careful. Be willing to use your reversals, magna tech is very good in this matchup. Recognize Bang has no true anti air except Ashura, so if he has no meter it's very gimmicky for him to anti-air Tager's godlike normals, usually can only be done with well placed 2D's to beat a super jump or smart 5A's or jump normals. Bumpers make this match harder, don't overcommit to anti airing his dashes, things that cover multiple options like jump back grab (covering forward bumper dash, maintaining neutral against all others) are useful. This match is relatively even. To add to that, I've also found Bang to be one of the more suitable targets for 2C anti-air. It cannot be j.D'd and I find it beats clean those jump-in moves and has enough of a backwards facing hitbox to swat crossup attempts, obviously still can be evaded. Bang's 2D still beats out Tager's j.2C on reaction if you're being dump, but I'll agree that j.B is godly. Does feel even. Edited July 8, 2011 by Manta
bblader1 Posted July 17, 2011 Posted July 17, 2011 Noob question here, but I see a lot of Bangs just carry Tager to the corner and eat him up there and it kinda scares me. What are things I can do to initiate operation GTFO as soon as possible?
A.X.I.S. Posted July 17, 2011 Author Posted July 17, 2011 I have a few notes to share. 5A actually stops bang this time around, no more 5F stupidity going around, you can actually beat it if you as usual throw it out early. Don't use strings with a gap in it, guard point beats it. If bang tries to guard point a normal you can delay 4D it for CH goodness. Ashura can be 720'd now, its -7 have fun with it. use 623Cx2>2C in your combos it does around the same damage as 6B>2C but lets you get gadget for slightly prorated combos. You can actually backdash the command grab if you smell it or IB 360A his normals so its easier to catch him for it. Sledge TK D nails when you can. Beware of Anti-airing Bang! He has 2 air dashes and a jump with a very good vertical height. This means 2 things, he can run away easily and bait you hard. Lows and Staggers are good for catching escape attempts and drive mash. This match is much easier than CS1 but it doesn't mean you are safe from Bangs beatings. @ bblader1: Barrier block or IB and make something unsafe. Speaking of unsafe, lets go on making Bangs strings a bit easier to punish. IB B moves, 2C, any slow normals that are not overheads, double palm thrust and jump in's. This makes the fight tons easier especially if you IB his A normals. Lets see anythign else? Oh learn to block bumper mix up...or at least learn about what he can do with it. I had bangs cross up command grab me with it.
OrionXElite Posted July 17, 2011 Posted July 17, 2011 (edited) Bang's blockstrings are really unsafe now. His new 2B>5B gatling is great, but it fucks him over against Tager. IB 5B and you 360A him for free out of any other move except 2B. So when he goes 2B>5B, IB 5B and 360A him out of whatever he does next. He'd have to literally space it to the end of the 5B's hitbox in order to avoid getting grabbed if hes un-magnetized. Also he CAN jump out if he reads you trying to throw it so I tend to wait till he commits to something after to throw it since you have a big window to get him since 2C/5C/6A are all really slow. If you have meter, 720 ruins his 5B since he can't even jump out. 5B is -5 on IB which is a straight punish with 720. Also don't let him just throw nails at you and pressure you for me. Nails have very little blockstun so if hes even a little bit away from you, block and throw a 5A to try and out poke him. Edited July 17, 2011 by OrionXElite
huey253 Posted July 17, 2011 Posted July 17, 2011 (edited) well, i honestly can't see how this matchup is even at all. can someone explain to me why it isn't in Bang's favor? it still seems a matter of bang having a better neutral game bang peeing on tager when he goes in. bang's ashura is now a real reversal (which wasn't true in CS1, both of which are punishable by 720 -5 in CS1) tager's pressure is still sad gadget finger isn't really in tager's favor still FRKZ/Bumpers mess tager up. tager specific bnb costs no nails. pretty sure tager has to block bnail crouching. tager has no air options, and no real solution to bang's air tick command grab setups (Bang has to worker harder, but it still seems like its in his favor) Edited July 17, 2011 by huey253
Isorropia Posted July 17, 2011 Posted July 17, 2011 Oh, it's still in Bang's favour, but where tager is concerned, 4-6 is 'even' in comparison to his worst matchups, in the sense that winning against an equally skilled opponent is a possibility. Also like always you can just 360A ashura, feels pretty satisfying.
huey253 Posted July 17, 2011 Posted July 17, 2011 Oh, it's still in Bang's favour, but where tager is concerned, 4-6 is 'even' in comparison to his worst matchups, in the sense that winning against an equally skilled opponent is a possibility. Also like always you can just 360A ashura, feels pretty satisfying. only on reaction. i'm pretty sold at it being 5.5 bang's favor
A.X.I.S. Posted July 18, 2011 Author Posted July 18, 2011 It feels 5.5 for Bang. But 4.5 match up feels easy compared to the stuff we had in previous games.
CrazyI-nomitsu Posted July 18, 2011 Posted July 18, 2011 I just feel Bang's stings are possibly some of the easiest stings to block in the game. I mean he is the easiest to block out of the rest of the cast. I wish more people played Bang.
Dusty Posted July 18, 2011 Posted July 18, 2011 I just feel Bang's stings are possibly some of the easiest stings to block in the game. I mean he is the easiest to block out of the rest of the cast. I wish more people played Bang. I'm pretty sure you have an easy time blocking his strings because bang can't late chain (haha stay sad bang). If you meant overheads yeah they're kinda slow but 6B is quite unblockable haha.
CrazyI-nomitsu Posted July 18, 2011 Posted July 18, 2011 I'm pretty sure you have an easy time blocking his strings because bang can't late chain (haha stay sad bang). If you meant overheads yeah they're kinda slow but 6B is quite unblockable haha. Yeah. Compare his stings to blocking Rachel, Jin, Ragna, and his crush Litchi. It's like fighting him in slow motion compare to those guys.
A.X.I.S. Posted July 18, 2011 Author Posted July 18, 2011 I don't know guys his mix up may be easy to block but he still has command grab and nails. He can also run around and do whatevers to us...and everyone can do that to us.
Dacidbro Posted July 18, 2011 Posted July 18, 2011 Bang easy to block? pressure and mix up are like the one thing other than a free approach that this character has going for him, it's just not super safe and broken like it was in CS1, and unfortunately it isn't endless like the top tier characters in this game. Just be willing to use your nails, and try to reset to 6A or stagger empty 5A d5A's while using frame traps to make people scared to push buttons and reset your pressure. Bang's pressure is certainly not autopilot anymore, so you need to really think about what your opponent is doing and how to condition them into doing what you want. I have never once, regardless of my opponent's skill level, had difficulty opening people up with Bang.
Dusty Posted July 18, 2011 Posted July 18, 2011 No character's pressure is endless in this game. And unforutantly nothing bang does in CS2 can really be safe sadly. His moves are so negative now that he has do something like jump or burn nails to make it safe, it sucks. Sure bang can open people up, but the only characters who I think have trouble doing so are Ragna and Tager and the reward bang gets for opening people up is like what, a shitty 1.2K-1.8K max (not in corner)? The risk reward for mashing out bang in CS2 is in most other character's favor. But this is a match up thread for tager so I'll get onto that. Bang's moves are super negative so he has to jump to get himself out safely when he puts tager in a blockstring or risk getting bustered. Tager players should look for patterns where bangs jump and collider them out of the air.
CrazyI-nomitsu Posted July 18, 2011 Posted July 18, 2011 That's what I always do with everyone Dusty. Everyone has a certain pattern.
A.X.I.S. Posted July 18, 2011 Author Posted July 18, 2011 Bang easy to block? pressure and mix up are like the one thing other than a free approach that this character has going for him, it's just not super safe and broken like it was in CS1, and unfortunately it isn't endless like the top tier characters in this game. Just be willing to use your nails, and try to reset to 6A or stagger empty 5A d5A's while using frame traps to make people scared to push buttons and reset your pressure. Bang's pressure is certainly not autopilot anymore, so you need to really think about what your opponent is doing and how to condition them into doing what you want. I have never once, regardless of my opponent's skill level, had difficulty opening people up with Bang. I don't know outside of command grabs I don't have a problem blocking him. His mid screen damage on croucher's are terrible and its not always easy hitting someone standing. Doesn't help that Bang cannot herp run up 5A Tager freely anymore. It just feels like Bang will lose to Tager damage wise midscreen without a good standing hit and I assure you the majority of the time you hit a good Tager he will be crouching. Sadly in the corner its all sad when blocking Bang, thats when he gets scary. So IMO Bang only scary when he has you pinned down and bent over in the corner. Unlike...Everyone else when it comes to Tager.
huey253 Posted July 18, 2011 Posted July 18, 2011 bang's command grab isn't very scary imo. (or good) maybe in the corner, but not really midscreen. his air command grab is a different story though.
Isorropia Posted July 18, 2011 Posted July 18, 2011 (edited) I don't get why everyone's throwing around this 'oh his strings are unsafe, unless he jumps'. Every single character in this game has 'unsafe strings' unless they XYZ. Eg. tager's 2C and 6A are -22 and -27 on block, they're so unsafe! Negative frames for an attack are meaningless if they have some gatling/jump/special cancel which they will be using 9 times out of 10 in that situation. Bang's 5A and 5B are 0 and -2 on block which is good enough to stop and dash in afterwards without getting reaction punished. And when he feels like it he can jump cancel D nails to create a +6 situation (if done at lowest possible height). I just think that bang's pressure is better than you guys are giving it credit for. >.> Edited July 18, 2011 by Isorropia
CrazyI-nomitsu Posted July 19, 2011 Posted July 19, 2011 So if tager's 2C and 6A are unsafe. What are we suppose to do? Take it like a man?
Dusty Posted July 19, 2011 Posted July 19, 2011 I don't get why everyone's throwing around this 'oh his strings are unsafe, unless he jumps'. Every single character in this game has 'unsafe strings' unless they XYZ. Eg. tager's 2C and 6A are -22 and -27 on block, they're so unsafe! Negative frames for an attack are meaningless if they have some gatling/jump/special cancel which they will be using 9 times out of 10 in that situation. Bang's 5A and 5B are 0 and -2 on block which is good enough to stop and dash in afterwards without getting reaction punished. And when he feels like it he can jump cancel D nails to create a +6 situation (if done at lowest possible height). I just think that bang's pressure is better than you guys are giving it credit for. >.> Looks like someone doesn't know how to punish someone's shitty pressure/blockstrings. If you jump cancel a move 9 out of 10 times then I will air grab you or AA you 9 out of 10 times simple as that. The point we are trying to get across is bang HAS TO jump or get punished and you can punish him for jump canceling to move. Even if you jump cancel a negative move doesn't mean I can't come chase after you. Bang's pressure is BAD, there's really no fear involved when blocking bang in CS2, his pressure is predictable and negative, which doesn't make sense for a mix up character and command grab isn't all that great. but hey if YOU let someone get away with doing dumb stuff then they have no reason to stop doing it.
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