[CS2] Rachel vs. Tager

[Tari]

Your goal in this matchup is to hit Tager with anything, and then to carry him to the corner and get your oki set up on him. Once he's in the corner and you have him locked down, you have a very high chance of winning.

Use winded mixup, keep him in the corner, and just rinse and repeat. If you mess up and he hits you, try to get out of pressure (winded backdash, etc. helps, but it's often just a guessing game) and return to the endless corner pressure.

The thing about Tager is that his approach options, as scary as they are, actually all suck. If he elbow drops you, you can dodge and punish him for it. Depending on the height he does it from, you can even instant block and punish him for it. All his sledges can be beaten by run-up 2A/5A or 6B, the former of which open him up to corner carry and Rachel pressure, and the latter of which spaces him out from you. You can even cat chair the sledges, if you really want to.

If he has spark bolt, there are various ways for Rachel to dodge it (j.[C], aerial summons and lobelia tosses, upwards wind, etc.), but good Tager players will likely hold onto it until they're sure they can get you to block it. Just don't get hit by it, because it gives Tager a free combo.

If you find yourself magnetized, Tager may use 6A to pull you in for mixup. Throws and 3C beat 6A cleanly, as does 6CD j.C (it breaks his superarmor). 6CD j.C is riskier than the first two options, though.

Be careful when summoning on the ground or at low heights if Tager has spark bolt.

Be careful when summoning at all if you're magnetized. If you do summon aerial pumpkin and Tager tries to Atomic Collider you, remember that pumpkin beats AC as long as you can hit him with it before he grabs you.

George is somewhat less useful in neutral in this matchup. Pumpkin and lobelias are arguably better for zoning.

Remember that Tager cannot sledge when he's in the air, so his only options if he jumps are to block or get hit by your zoning.

Space yourself carefully.

Playing a game against Tager isn't purely about zoning him. It's about zoning him until you can hit him, and then keeping him in the corner for 20 seconds until he dies. It's a very boring matchup when you play it to the strengths of your character.

What tends to happen in most Tager v. Rachel matches is the Rachel player gets bored and rushes into Tager. It makes the game far more interesting, but Rachel tends to get herself screwed up pretty badly when she engages in close range.

If you see anything confusing or contradictory about what I wrote, let me know, 'cause I wrote it all in one shot, haha. Hope it helps a bit, though.

Edited December 10, 2011 by Tari

[gli]

It's probably 6A with magnetism that will really pull you in and start eating a lot of Tager pressure.

Try this:

Throw out 6CD to test how the Tager deals with it. If he throws out 6A you can 8D to demolish all of 6A's armor and continue with j.C into combo. If he sledges then your 6C will beat it.

6CD is one of the best things you can do with Rachel in neutral against Tager. But, like many things, don't be so obvious about it. Where you will normally 6CD try changing it up to keep him guessing.

EDIT: I see that Tari has written a large response nearly the same time I posted my small contribution. If I repeated some of his thoughts, it's because of that.

[Tari]

Oh, right. 6CD in neutral is a pretty amazing approach against Tager especially. Like Gli said, though, don't overuse it and become obvious with it, because Tager can easily poke you out of it with 5A/5C and get some pretty good damage, magnetism, and pressure from it.

If you think the game is incredibly boring, you're probably playing the matchup correctly. Lord knows I hate playing this matchup properly, haha. I always just run in after a while.

[Kronikhall]

I tried zoning him with TBs, pumpkins and ISs but his moves have projectile armor. I zone him carefully and I still get magnetize and put under his spd pressure. Playing lame isn't doing it for me, I keep getting creamed and making myself look free each time I play him, it's like fighting Zangief with a projectile.

sorry, my response was sort of vague and Gli's and Tari's are much better indepth ones. I don't know what IS's are, but i can guess that you're talking about sword iris'. if you are then i wouldn't recommend using it to try and zone tager. look where you place your rods and use them in that sense. for example if tager's sledge moves him into range of a rod, feel free to sword iris and then summon pumpkin (or frog if you already have pumpkin). also for pumpkin, what you can do is place it, let it sit there and then back up. if tager sledges, wait until the animation almost finishes, then wind the pumpkin backwards (so 4D) then forward (5/6D). what this does is if tager doesn't follow up, he has to block or get hit by the pumpkin, allowing you a mixup or combo. if he does the follow up, the 4D gets projectile armor'd, but the 5D hits him while he recovers and you can get a free corner carry combo.

try not to get too frustrated with tager

[Tari]

Forgot to mention: If you're far out while magnetized and Tager does 6A to pull you in, you also have the option of simply jumping. You'll fly over 6A's hitbox and you can opt to either just space yourself out again or go for the j.2C counterhit.

If you're amazing, you can also backdash 6A, but that's basically asking to die, since Rachel's backdash invuln lasts for exactly the same amount of time as Tager's 6A's active frames.

[Deikan]

Forgot to mention: If you're far out while magnetized and Tager does 6A to pull you in, you also have the option of simply jumping. You'll fly over 6A's hitbox and you can opt to either just space yourself out again or go for the j.2C counterhit.

If you're amazing, you can also backdash 6A, but that's basically asking to die, since Rachel's backdash invuln lasts for exactly the same amount of time as Tager's 6A's active frames.

Question "raises hand":

I fought a Tager who somehow manage to pull an 360 command grab and a 720 DD through my perfect timed combo stings. Is Rachel's 5b Silpheed to 5c to 3c not a true combo string or is that Tager's spd has invincibility of some kind?

[Tari]

5B > 5C is not gapless. Tager can 720 you in that gap. If he instant blocks the 5B, he can also 360A you. 5B > 5C has its uses as a frametrap, but those aren't particularly useful in this matchup.

[swordiris]

Unfortunately, my brother plays Tager. So when ever we decide to play Blazblue together we get bored easily. I do know patience is key here. Some advice I can give, don't use 2C you will get thrown (the only exception is if he is elbow dropping above you in which case he just made a glaring mistake.)

Another piece of advice, if he sledges near ya do a BNB combo starting with 6C.

of course oki's should be up because it will scare the Tager player out of making a move.

[[SpA]Relentless]

2C is amazing vs online tager bullshit like 5C > 5D > B sledge (2C between 5D and sledge for larl 6k damage). I don't know if people are still doing this string though

[Sakaku]

Some online Tagers still do it, lol. You can also IB the 5D and hit Tager out of Sledge B with 5A. If he decides for 236A, you are still in blockstun not to get CH'd.

It's worth mentioning that meaty 6C in the corner w/ frog oki beats all of Tagers options except of MTW. (Thought I read it here already but for some reason it didn't get mentioned v: )

[Kuuhaku]

I tried zoning him with TBs, pumpkins and ISs but his moves have projectile armor. I zone him carefully and I still get magnetize and put under his spd pressure. Playing lame isn't doing it for me, I keep getting creamed and making myself look free each time I play him, it's like fighting Zangief with a projectile.

I'm going to assume you mean cannons, rods, and pumpkin. The thing is, you have to wait for Tager to do something. Pretty much anything he does at neutral can be punished by pumpkin for free. He sledges and you're out of range? Free combo. Both versions of sledge have a crap ton of recovery on whiff and B sledge has a crap ton of start up (if you're fast enough you can run up and 2C CH him for free, you only risk him being able to rapid cancel and block if you do it too late... otherwise he's stuck in hitstop and will get hit even if he rapids).

If you have this kind of problem it's because you're just throwing out things mindlessly. Zoning isn't just about having shit on screen. It's about carefully controlling the screen space in your favor. Literally all Rachel has to do to accomplish this is be out of range of Tager's attacks and have pumpkin out. Any approach he does at that point is risky.

To win this match up you have to be really patient and be really good at controlling screen space on top of calling Tager out on his shit. You can't make mistakes because he can capitalize pretty well and put you in some scary situations. But if you pay patient and lame enough there's really not much he can do except try to scare you into making a mistake.

Edited December 12, 2011 by Bohemian Polka