[CS2] Hakumen vs Taokaka

[Spark]

Place holder

Punishes:

Anti-airing:

Zoning:

Their game plan:

Strategy:

Char specific details:

[SansProtocol]

Moves to Use and Why:

• j.C: Your best normal against Taokaka in the air. j.C is great because its' range keeps you safe and still allows you to knock her out of the air, where most other of Hakumen's normals will get you counter-hit or they'll trade. Use this to prevent Tao from having free reign in the air.
  
• Hotaru: MVP of the match-up, this move does work and doesn't complain about overtime. It's one of the reasons this match-up is as close as it is. It's safe, can easily get a Fatal Counter against Taokaka's Drive Attacks, and is very hard for her to deal with.
  
• 6D/j.D: These are the only two counters I would advise using in this matchup. 6D is good against a lot of things on the ground like overheads and her Air-to-Ground Drives/attacks. Surprisingly, I think j.D is the second most useful counter in this match-up as you'll be in the air a lot with her. It will also ground her, which is the best part. Not only that, but most of Tao's anti-airs are dealt with quite nicely.
  
• 2B: 2B is a safe option against Tao on the ground as you still have enough time to use 5A/5B afterwards to protect yourself if they try to jump over it.
  
  
  Strategy:
  
  • The most important thing to watch for in this match-up is how many drive cancels/jumps/air dashes (3/3/2 max) a Taokaka player has left. Actively keeping this in mind will allow you to assess what options she has left. Secondly, it's a way to remain focused and on top of your game with Tao.
    
  • Keep it safe. You only need a few solid hits (and that's all you may get sometimes) to win the round. Do not be risky and give your opponent free damage as you will need all the health you can get.
    
  • A grounded Tao is an easier-to-manage Tao. On the ground and on wake-up, she is much more limited without meter. Watch out for wake-up Taokaka Barrage though.
    
  • An extension to what I mentioned in the second bullet: make every hit count. You will probably not get many good hits on a good Tao player, but the few you do is all you need. Follow through and get the most damage out of your combos.
    
  • Rattle Taokaka up by going on the offensive suddenly at times during the match. The best way to do this is by jumping towards her and using Hotaru/j.C. A Taokaka player needs to judge their distances properly in order to Drive Cancel out of danger or to move in on an opponent; this will cut that distance and get them before they think to Drive Cancel.
    
  • She will attempt to overwhelm and confuse you by crossing you up with drive cancels, grabbing you suddenly in a combo when close, and mixing quick lows with overheads. However, there are a lot of holes in all of this which you can use Hotaru or 6D so make sure to watch for that moment to strike.
    

  Character-Specific Details:

  [*]Taokaka is tied for the lowest health in the game. This trades off with having the best mobility of the cast, using her Drives to move/fly around the screen. These Drives can also be cancelled in three different ways and give her different options to freely and somewhat safely get in on an opponent. A good Tao player will use these movement options like a surgeon and his scalpel. This is all paired with a scary close-up/pressure game and great damage, making her a dizzying and lethal opponent to face.

Edited August 6, 2011 by SansProtocol

[IndigoNovember]

So I might be facing TAOFTW every now and then, hopefully. Time to actually learn this matchup.

So, if I read this correctly, once you have enough magatama to do stuff, start switching erratically back and forth between offense and defense to keep the Taokaka on their toes?

Is there a method for approaching that works decently? Having other options that lead to combos besides Hotaru and 6d would be nice. Using j.2c seems like a bad idea since it's slow, would j.2a or air throw be a better air tool? Also, on the ground perhaps Gurren might be useful since it's fast?

[Sophisticat]

Defense is one of the most important aspects of this matchup. Tao's plan is to mix you up as much as possible and make you lose patience by running all over the place. There's nothing to it but to suck it up, play defense and not get caught in her shenanigans while taking advantage of gaps in pressure where you can.

One of your most important normals in this matchup is j.B. In air-to-ground approach, there is nothing you will want to use other than this. It is fast, has a good hitbox, and leads to decent dmg. It is also your preferred air-to-air normal for the very same reasons. J.C will not help you in this matchup since Tao's flying all over the place, and will likely CH you for free since j.C's hitbox is so thin. J.B is tighter and covers more space, so there's more room for error and capitalizing on a CH.

When being pressured, look to counter the auto-pressure to keep them on their toes. This means 5D on her 6b on reaction, or 2D'ing jabs. If you can disrupt their rhythm here you'll have much more breathing space.

Forget about zoning since you'll just get CH'd. Focus more on well-spaced 5b to beat careless jump-ins, and either j.C or air throw their attempts at jumping out.

Your overall gameplan is to stick to the air -- refer to my comment on j.B. Tao can't mix you up here and your j.B is a threat to keep her in check. Poke, prod, and work your way into big damage and you'll eke out a win. The tactical approach will beat out Tao's shenanigans in the long run.

[BladeOfJustice7]

[*]The most important thing to watch for in this match-up is how many drive cancels/jumps/air dashes (3/3/2 max) a Taokaka player has left. Actively keeping this in mind will allow you to assess what options she has left. Secondly, it's a way to remain focused and on top of your game with Tao.

What is the maximum of combinations she can do? I mean in the sense of if she does 2 drive cancels how many jumps and air dashes does she have left? That would be good info to keep in mind.

[SansProtocol]

You can use j.2A in this matchup with a little effort, however you'll want to hit her closer to the tip of the blade (the lower part) to avoid trading with her j.D (aim for the claw XD). Otherwise, there's no real need to approach her unless she has the life lead. Stay back and build meter up. If you must approach, the safest way to approach is by empty jumping. 2D, 6C, 236C, and Air Throw make jumping in on her effectively a living nightmare. Sophisticat was correct when suggesting j.B but only as a jump in or if you are above Tao when you should connect.

Although, j.C most definitely helps you in this match-up if you use it properly in your attempts to zone Tao out. I made this diagram to show the moves I keep in mind and why:

I keep to single jumps to stay closer to the ground and allow using j.C to be relatively safe and effective (Only 3F of landing recovery). I jump higher if need be but I keep myself protected from most approaches. You have to use its' range effectively and respect her attacks if she's too close. j.B is nice because you can counter/trade with any cancel shenanigans to j.4D/land > run > 6A/2D. If she does get too close, you can choose to Hotaru and score a CH if they did not stop quick enough to cause it to whiff. Otherwise, you'll want to (barrier) block because her j.C/D and air throw will most likely beat out whatever you would have tried to throw out. I would resist using 2D on jabs and just block as they can easily just throw you out of it. I would use 6D instead of 5D on Tao's 6B as you may get CH if you react too late.

Finally, she has three jumps and 2 air dashes, which do correlate with each other. C Drive Cancels and Drives that moves Tao higher cost a jump/dash. These reset when she touches the ground. NOTE: She can use j.4D to reset her jumps/dashes as it counts as touching the ground.

[mAc Chaos]

where u @ spark

i wanna get your thoughts on this matchup

[Spark]

No Taokaka players in the area.

[mAc Chaos]

Damn.

I suppose I should mention that none of Haku's air options really help you if Tao is in the air ABOVE you. She comes in with an attack, and j.C won't hit high enough and just get you CH. So you'll either have to block or do Hotaru, if it doesn't get baited out. If you ever want to try and attack it's best to do it when she's coming from below.

Her 6A is a real pain.

[Moblin]

I've found the odds of winning increase dramatically with momentum in this matchup much more than others. Your main strength in this matchup should be blocking; the more you block, the more things the Tao player will try to get in, and you should be able to predict one and get an odd hit in. After you get knockdown, never go off offense until you either win or she gets away and starts doing shenanigans again, resetting the situation.

Imo, there's 2 games going on in this matchup: 1. Haku is blocking the shit out of everything/getting comboed, and 2. Haku finally gets a hit in which stops Tao's momentum, knocking her down into oki and forcing her to deal with Haku's pressure. And the pressure should be quite scary after all the stars you've collected while blocking mixups/getting hit for the first half of the match. Then rinse/repeat

I also agree with you Mac, it's really difficult to beat anything taokaka has coming from the air without some kind of prediction or hotaru. I can't really provide a lot of sage advice on the matchup since I've only played a couple of good Taos, but this forum could use more posts. So I posted

[mAc Chaos]

I found some success using j.A to beat out her air attacks in speed, but you can't really get anything off it so it's not worth it except to interrupt her rhythm.

Any thoughts on pressuring her? It would be so much easier if her 2A didn't low profile our 2A, but it does, so it makes things a bit different. Not to mention that it's 6 frames on top of that.

[Moblin]

I use 2b a lot, since a lot of Taos want to get out of pressure quickly. They'll jump and hold barrier block as soon as they think they can get away with it, so time the 2b when you think they're gonna try it and hitconfirm into renka.

[itsme]

Air grab can help set a neutral game if the Tao becomes smart and start baiting Hotarus/playing safe. Also, you should always know Tao has the advantage in the air against you so always play safe in the air. I mentioned this in the oki thread recently but what I do to keep Tao pressured is to cut the midscreen j2A combos in half so it goes something like whatever> j2A delay AD j2C/jB/jA depending on their tech to keep them stuck blocking in the air so I can corner carry them as far as possible as well as keeping them still under block once both of us are grounded; iirc, depending on how you do this, you should land first where you can follow it up with 5A anti air and then continue your pressure as they land.

[mAc Chaos]

I feel like she has the advantage everywhere, not just in the air.

[itsme]

I know what you mean though I know for sure her air game is much better compared to her ground game because of the extra jumps and mobility. Her ground pressure is annoying but manageable imo, though it's mostly because I use 6D on their overheads. All in all, real good Taos are hard to manage, but as long as if you don't try doing stupid stuff in the air, the match up should be manageable, assuming the opponent isn't someone like Tsujikawa.

[mAc Chaos]

Well, when I'm grounded a lot of the time the Tao's use air shenanigans for their pressure and mixup, so it's not like they're just standing there using grounded only stuff. Probably should just use 6D more, but she can just bait it out so easily, unless there's a better way.

[itsme]

Its hard but 6D on reflex is pretty much the only way you can really catch Tao during her overhead; its like instant blocking except the risk is higher than the reward. I really don't think its worth it in CSE though since her 6B gets fatal counter. And yeah, that is one of the hardest point in the Tao match up; actually keeping Tao grounded so she doesn't do any shenanigans, and the only way to do this is to keep her in a pressure. I'm just waiting to see how it goes in CSE though as of right now.

Also:

http://twitch.tv/roku_b/b/302184890

Skip to 16:41 for the Haku vs. Tao. I saw a lot of mistakes in their myself but this is generally how I handle Tao. Hope it gives you some inspiration to some anti-Tao technology.

Edited December 13, 2011 by itsme

[BladeOfJustice7]

I feel like she has the advantage everywhere, not just in the air.

She does, your main tool in this matchup is hotaru. Implementing the use of this move and maximizing damage off it is the issue. And obviously getting the meter for it, I know I'm not the only one who dislikes to spend random meter without certainty on whether or not it'll hit.

I know what you mean though I know for sure her air game is much better compared to her ground game because of the extra jumps and mobility. Her ground pressure is annoying but manageable imo, though it's mostly because I use 6D on their overheads. All in all, real good Taos are hard to manage, but as long as if you don't try doing stupid stuff in the air, the match up should be manageable, assuming the opponent isn't someone like Tsujikawa.

Not really with her drive crossup shenanigans.

Well, when I'm grounded a lot of the time the Tao's use air shenanigans for their pressure and mixup, so it's not like they're just standing there using grounded only stuff. Probably should just use 6D more, but she can just bait it out so easily, unless there's a better way.

Avoid counters as much as possible in this matchup. I played a friend online and my counter success rate which is normally 60% accurate on/offline was like at most 20%. The thing is tao can cancel her dashes leaving you hesitant to commit to an AA, which is where he gets the chance to jump in on you and pressure you.

A lot of hakumens try to counter her because dealing with her pressure is damn near impossible to do. But it's not mvc3 style like valkenhayn (who had more health and hits harder). You just need to play patient and mobile, and look for any chance you get to be in her face, she doesn't have any meterless reversal options

And yeah, that is one of the hardest point in the Tao match up; actually keeping Tao grounded so she doesn't do any shenanigans, and the only way to do this is to keep her in a pressure. I'm just waiting to see how it goes in CSE though as of right now..

It's one of those matchups that'll always be bad, as long as hakumen works the way he does and tao works the way she does, this matchup will always be bad. The only thing that really changes is how they balance hakumen, thereby making it worse of a matchup than in a previous iteration of blazblue.

I don't see hakumens matchups involving; lambda, tao, valkenhayn, hazama, and maybe rachel improving to being in his favour unless they were severely nerfed.

*Goes back to studying like a loser*

EDIT: Like the valkenhayn matchup you need to stay mobile, make use of attacks in the air that have better vertical than horizontal hitboxes, and moves that come out fast. And be on the look out for air grabs.

Edited December 21, 2011 by BladeOfJustice7

[mAc Chaos]

All of this is pretty much true.

I think Valk is easier though.

I'm not sure how effective Hotaru is either since if you land a hit while doing air footsies, it's not like you can really capitalize on it. Unless the purpose is just to make her scared or something... but is that worth two stars? She'd probably just dodge it and rape you.

[Sophisticat]

Ok, I played the first really good Tao I've met in a long time yesterday, and I think this perhaps Haku's worst matchup in CS2. The main reason for this is that Tao can run circles around you moreso than other zoners/mobility chars (Lambda, Hazama, Valk, etc.). Still, I don't think that changes much in the approach, you just have to be much more attentive than in other matchups because she can mix you up very quickly.

Hotaru is useful, but I think its range of usefulness ends anywhere above Haku-height. This is because you'll want to use Hotaru to stuff air approach or to catch her when she's not barrier-ing (especially useful in the corner). Air-to-air isn't good because of its poor horizontal hitbox, though it does beat out some stuff.

I'll reiterate that you need to keep moving and don't stay on the ground too long. I mentioned earlier that j.B is your friend. This is a bit incorrect, since her low profile move can beat this out clean. You can beat low-profile with j.2C, but her 6a (I think) either beats that outright or trades. So choose wisely.

Air throw is gdlk on reaction. If she tends to jump around you too much, this can be a good move to use.

Also, I think this is one matchup where you can be less conservative on stars, and use a bit more for some extra dmg since her HP is the lowest in the game. You really want to end this one quick so she doesn't turn you into catnip.

About counters, I agree that they're riskier here. Taos still have some patterns they automate that you can exploit, but aside from that, DO NOT use D just because you think they're about to attack. It WILL get you CH'd.

Overall, keep moving and don't try to chase too much, but don't be shy to close the distance and get them to act. Also watch out for reversal supers when she has 50%. It's a tough match, but her low HP and Haku's control of space make this manageable.

[BladeOfJustice7]

All of this is pretty much true.

I think Valk is easier though.

I'm not sure how effective Hotaru is either since if you land a hit while doing air footsies, it's not like you can really capitalize on it. Unless the purpose is just to make her scared or something... but is that worth two stars? She'd probably just dodge it and rape you.

Valkenhayn

Pros: has Tao's mobility (maybe even better), command grab, more life, does more damage, wolf spin (if timed right) can collide with dps, mvc3-style pressure game, really nice corner carry game, resets possible from command grab, stupid good AA in wolf form.

Cons: limited time of Tao-like mobility, out of wolf form, he's slow with a big hitbox, 4 primers, below3 average by standards of the rest of the cast, only one meter reversal, slightly risky AA in human form.

Tao

Pros: unlimited Tao mobility (in a sense), insane untech time from normals in the air, VERY fast normals, air/standing unblockable super, fairly useful AA, ALMOST mvc3-style pressure game

Cons: no health, 4 primers, risky AA (I would assume correct me if I'm wrong), only one reversal (needs meter), lacks a command grab to solidify pressure game, combos don't typically end in a knock down state (like valkenhayn, giving your a chance to reset pressure).

I'm sure I'm lacking more pros and cons between the two. Anyways, valks pressure is MUCH more threatening since it's damn near impossible to discern between wolf forms high and low attacks. Coupled with a command grab if he sees you too comfortable blocking, which resets his meter form. However, his biggest draw back is what makes the match up easier to manage, he only has a LIMITED time to apply this pressure on you. While Tao's pressure if difficult to handle as well, she lacks a command grab to bring her a back bone to her pressure in case you start to figure out her block strings.

What makes the difference between the two is that tao can always stay on you so long as she occasionally touches the floor to reset her air mobility. This keeps you from converting from defense to offence like you typically do during most matches once your opponent runs out of pressure options. For valkenhayn , while it is damn near impossible to deal with, he can only do it for so long before he runs out of wolf meter giving you the chance to apply pressure to him, especially since he lacks a meterless reversal. The time valk spends recovering his meter is what makes that matchup easier to manage, since valkenhayn is incapable of killing you in 2 combos unless he gets a fatal twice.

Hard part with tao is finding the opening to go offensive on her and open her up, since she pretty much spends the entire round keeping you from moving, and making it difficult to stop her pressure with counters. I feel that you need to be more assertive than in most match ups, with or without meter, because it is difficult to change the momentum of the match against her compared to most matchups. Making use of normals like jb and occasionally j2c. Normals like 4c and jc are damn near useless in the matchup as well along with any other pokes that hakumen has.

Anyways, that's all I could think of for now.

[mAc Chaos]

Tao's AAs are spammable. She can just run up and hit 6AAAAAAAA until it hits.

I think Valk's mixup is strong, but if you can wait it out or find an opening you can actually have a chance to do something. With Tao it just never ends. And as far as being more aggressive, Tao thrives on having you throw out moves and getting you hit. Not sure what else you can do though aside from be super super cautious but that'll just get you timed out or hit anyway.

[BladeOfJustice7]

I'm not amazing but maybe me playing might help;

I typically don't beat this guy, because hakumen is ass online. It's impossible to react and block online, but experience is what matters really. It might help to get across my points stated above. I would have to say that wolf forms AA is much more of a problem than Tao's AA.

[mAc Chaos]

From that video it looks like just saying fuck it and going for jump outs against pressure as much as possible is a good idea. Considering it worked better than my attempts to block it out, I might as well try it. He was also way more tame under your pressure than when I played him. Normally I touch him and he goes nuts.

Edited January 1, 2012 by mAc Chaos

[mAc Chaos]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZE1rAP1w9w#t=3m15s

Looks like not even Chin is safe.