Darlos9D Posted June 10, 2011 Posted June 10, 2011 You know, Rachels love to end their blockstrings with Lobelia. Couldn't we just, like... sledge it? I'm sure a smarter Rachel could mix things up, but if they're gonna give that opening...
A.X.I.S. Posted June 10, 2011 Author Posted June 10, 2011 Its sketchy sledging it because if she is too close you get frame trapped, if they do it too far you get the sledge. Believe me I tried to IB sledge but..NETPLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY!!
CrazyI-nomitsu Posted June 10, 2011 Posted June 10, 2011 Its sketchy sledging it because if she is too close you get frame trapped, if they do it too far you get the sledge. Believe me I tried to IB sledge but..NETPLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY!! I love some of your combos choices. But what is up with what you do after GF pick up? I'm not saying I'm better than you or anything, but you could have had been more creative. Yuo went for the shit every Tager goes for after Gf pick up.
Osuna Posted June 10, 2011 Posted June 10, 2011 Did Rachel backdash and then wind to get out of gadget mix up? Is there anything that can be done there short of spark bolt?
CrazyI-nomitsu Posted June 10, 2011 Posted June 10, 2011 Did Rachel backdash and then wind to get out of gadget mix up? Is there anything that can be done there short of spark bolt? How about 5d or 6A? I think 6A will pull her back in. You can also try 2D.
Isorropia Posted June 10, 2011 Posted June 10, 2011 You know, Rachels love to end their blockstrings with Lobelia. Couldn't we just, like... sledge it? I'm sure a smarter Rachel could mix things up, but if they're gonna give that opening... 5CC > A lobelia has no gap between it even on IB. But if they're trying to frame trap with it, sure. Did Rachel backdash and then wind to get out of gadget mix up? Is there anything that can be done there short of spark bolt? From the rachel matchup thread: As much as I love the winded backdash, it does indeed lose to a 5C. Or a Spark Bolt too, but that's kind of wasteful. However, it is perfectly safe against 5A and 6A (even one held down). It's a great option because it pretty much changes Tager's mixup to "5C" or "anything else". And personally, I get away with winded backdash near 100% of the time, since no Tager who knows the match-up would ever be using Gadget Finger on Rachel anyway.
A.X.I.S. Posted June 10, 2011 Author Posted June 10, 2011 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=742Ew9t_z9o Third vid. I'll post up my thoughts on these matches later.
Darlos9D Posted June 10, 2011 Posted June 10, 2011 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=742Ew9t_z9o Third vid. I'll post up my thoughts on these matches later. Not long ago you were talking about using Sledge followup, though I guess you meant it more for just trolling around. But at about 1:58, pulling it out would have actually extended the projectile invuln to beat the pumpkin, and assuming that Rachel was already committed to the idea of attacking afterward (granted, maybe she was hitconfirming) you might have gotten a counter out of it. Maybe this is just worthless hindsight, but spaced correctly and used sparingly the Sledge followup might actually be legit, in situations just like that. Also, I noticed you trying to OTG with 6A a few times, and whiffing it. Is OTGing with 6A better than 5C?
A.X.I.S. Posted June 11, 2011 Author Posted June 11, 2011 Ok back lets start off with some basic things. The first thing I was testing was what Rachel can do and what I can get away with, I was seriously looking for something I can exploit, there are things but bah netplay. Second match was me actually being a bit more serious and seeing how the Rachel would respond, notice I used CA to knockdown Rachel, I am confident that if she was magnetized I can 360 her roll techs, I need to test this. The third match was me being netplayed because again I can react and block the mix up about 70% of the time offline but online is a different monster. So first match was a test. Second match was changing up a bit. Third match was taking what I know and trying to use it, notice I dropped that clutch shit near the end lol, I wasn't even mad. I'd also note that I didn't indiscriminately save random vids, those was the 1st, 2nd, and 4th matches. (I hit buttons and didn't save the 3rd.) The 6A was a meaty but he wouldn't tech and I was pretty much flipping my shit because he didn't want to tech. Honestly 5C is a far better meaty but I wanted to beat Cat chair and wake up mash. 1:58 of that vid was me thinking too much, normally if I see a pumpkin and Rachel nearby I expect to get 6B'd, I should have taken that risk. But you know what? When you play Tager you have to roll with a mess up and find a way to make it in your favor, this is what Mike Z taught me. Next time you see vids of Rachel you will see how I put up player and match up knowledge together. This afterall is a test on two accounts: The camera setup and how it would look on youtube. (sorry for the soul music, I am black so we love our soul music etc etc.) And so you can see how bad I play on netplay. Expect more vids soon. Yes that is my youtube account.
Mucky Posted June 13, 2011 Posted June 13, 2011 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dB6S_jUNZJg Well I played like absolute garbage this game, but I might as well post it and see what everyone has to say about it. This isn't even my recording, lol.
A.X.I.S. Posted June 16, 2011 Author Posted June 16, 2011 You made several bad choices when it came to combos and overall play. But you made some proper choices as well. round 1 should never happen again. Work on that. Look at the height of his pokes when he IAD's, you can actually punish him pretty easily. 5B>6D can be backdashed easy, do it. When you jump and backdash do it because of a good read not to just do it. Welp I tl:dr my normal long rant since I have been neglecting this thread. It felt like you wasn't sure how to handle Ragna, I share your pain, took me 2 years to realize that he isn't so bad once you figure it out.
Mucky Posted June 17, 2011 Posted June 17, 2011 Hooray, feedback! So what do you mean by bad combo choices? I don't think I even got to do a proper combo that entire match. What I do know about comboing Ragna is that: 1) GF is always a bad idea because he can just DP, 2) sending him back to full/mid screen seems to work out better than going for a knockdown. That's why I did A sledge > followup when I got a 360B on him. As for the random jumps and backdashes... I don't know. I'll jump and backdash all the time like that, and then I watch a replay of myself doing it I can't even understand why the fuck I'm doing it. They're just that random. On 5B>6D, yes I could backdash that, but (oh god I'm playing that game) that's hindsight. In a replay I know everything that will happen, but in an actual game I have to look out for 2B which will wreck backdash. I do try to backdash after stuff like 2C because it's common for Ragnas to go for HF or GH at that point and lows aren't as big of a threat. If you're talking about backdashing the 6D on reaction, then fuck it, I can't react to stuff like that. It felt like you wasn't sure how to handle Ragna, I share your pain, took me 2 years to realize that he isn't so bad once you figure it out. That sums up how I feel about this matchup. I can go on ranked, troll random Ragnas that use shit like Belial Edge for approaching, then one like this will come along and I'm like, what the fuck man. Every time I think I understand the matchup, I'll get my shit wrecked and realize I know nothing. Tourney nerves probably didn't help, but it's not like I can get a good read anyway. There have been times where I'll score a knockdown on a Ragna who has 100 heat, anticipate a DP, and eat a green throw instead. Just the threat of being hit by his DP makes me second guess my mixup and pressure. I seriously hate this matchup. There are no words for it, only rage.
A.X.I.S. Posted June 19, 2011 Author Posted June 19, 2011 Mucky you think way too hard. Tourney nerves make me drop combos hell TV lag makes me drop combos too. What you should know when comboing is what is optimal or best in a given situation. If you don't want to gadget Ragna (I fucking do it DP or not whatevers.) then just opt for 5B>4D. If you are a being a big boy with gadget then don't be too scared to take a risk, Ragna ID hit box and active frames are nerfed so Ragna has to think before doing it. I like to microstep forward and backdash a ID if I feel its coming, other wise I treat him like everyone else. Welcome to hindsight, I kill myself looking at my replays too, in fact I had ranbats yesterday and when I fought our Jin player (Best in our scene.) I dropped all my combos and got hella salty, when you guys look at that vid you are all gonna see why I was so salty. Do not fear Ragna's 2B, never fear it because you can always block it, when he does 6D he is expecting you to sit there and block it, you don't have to. Backdash it and punish accordingly. So lets talk about netplay Ragna shall we? They are bad, too wild, don't know how to approach and mash ID on wake up. The good ones know how to poke but are still very wild...these can be a troublesome bunch. They can be beaten too because they are also easy to IB 720...can't do it on that connection? stop playing him. You don't have to always feel threatened by DP's your job is to make people want to DP. It again took me forever to reach this conclusion but that's how I reach it. Then again I don't mind being lamed out because I have a Tager OS. When I get Skye's camera back I guess I'll netplay and post more vids.
Mucky Posted June 24, 2011 Posted June 24, 2011 Mucky you think way too hard. You could be right. I'll need some time to think about this. I feel ID wouldn't bother me so much if Ragna weren't rewarded so god damn much just for landing one. I'm telling you man, no other DP is as irritating to deal with, or as braindead in its usage. It CS1 it gave good damage, oki and it usually pushed me into the corner. 50 heat also completely removes any risk it has whatsoever, and he even gets a free pressure string for it. Well, it's probably not as good in CS2, although it might still be annoying if he gets a wallbounce. There's also the fact that blocking one is incredibly rewarding. It's such an easy way to get 5k damage that I always want to try to block it. Anyway, it's surprisingly hard to find a good Ragna to consistently play with, so all I can do is talk about it. This is all I have to say about netplay Ragnas: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zA3OO3O_UiE
Dacidbro Posted July 7, 2011 Posted July 7, 2011 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jk-S25SYQp4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-q0QAdE0MQo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XRX2hJD2WE The first match in all of these videos I play Tager. Some of my opponent's skill is debatable, but that's not really what I'm looking for here; if any of my set ups are inefficient or outdated, please tell me what some better set ups (or extensions on my current set ups) could be, as well as if I used anything outright "incorrectly". Most of my tager play is improvised, and I know that most of these combos are incorrect or slightly less damage than they could be; It's not that I need combo advice, it's that I have never practiced the timing for stronger combos, so please just focus on non-combo aspects. Thanks guys.
Brice Posted July 7, 2011 Posted July 7, 2011 @Dacid: you look like me when i started tager lol. stop using sledge for command dash. NEVER. super jump C into super jump C will lead you to nowhere... if you're opponent wants to play keepaway they'll just run under you. my perception of your playstyle is you really want to be upclose RIGHT NOW. which is never gonna be the case with tager. to play tager is to have the best patience ever. just walk your way and try to react to what they will do. against matchup like hakumen, since they tend to turtle just charge your bolt it sometimes makes them rush at you which is not so bad. also if you sense a 4C coming just normal jump delayed/deep C to punish if you're at 4C's poke range. also, having a spark bolt is having a small fear factor. they will either stop spamming away or super jump to make it whiff. just walk their way with that in mind. the last thing i'll say for now is get yourself the best defence you can get 'cuz you'll need it more than anything else with this fat ass... just my 2 cents hope that helps
Dacidbro Posted July 7, 2011 Posted July 7, 2011 Mm, I would definitely normally agree with you, but the way WhiteBoyWilly plays allows me to use both of those to decent effect. I like to scope out individual opponents and see what I can do, so "never" seems too broad of a rule for me. But I do generally agree with not using sledge or double jC for movement options. Jump delayed C to hit 4C is great advice, thanks.
A.X.I.S. Posted July 18, 2011 Author Posted July 18, 2011 Welp got a vid a friend wanted to me to show you. A female Tager player and she isn't bad either, she's still learning so have fun. http://www.youtube.com/user/QueenOfTager?feature=mhee
FlyingVe Posted July 18, 2011 Posted July 18, 2011 Not bad at all really, I would advise her to footsie with Ragna more. Tager's 5C is an issue for him, and throwing out 5A is very good if he's getting overzealous with his 5B. Other than that, hitconfirms could be a bit better, and there were some decisions I disagree with regarding meter usage, pressure, and the people elbow. You should tell her to get an account on DL. We're all salty as fuck, but usually pretty helpful.
Koopa_Klawz Posted July 18, 2011 Posted July 18, 2011 she already has a DL account. http://www.dustloop.com/forums/member.php?7540-Rozy
A.X.I.S. Posted July 18, 2011 Author Posted July 18, 2011 Not bad at all really, I would advise her to footsie with Ragna more. Tager's 5C is an issue for him, and throwing out 5A is very good if he's getting overzealous with his 5B. Other than that, hitconfirms could be a bit better, and there were some decisions I disagree with regarding meter usage, pressure, and the people elbow. You should tell her to get an account on DL. We're all salty as fuck, but usually pretty helpful. I am not salty at all, I can't get mad anymore. I am just broken.
Koopa_Klawz Posted July 18, 2011 Posted July 18, 2011 I am not salty at all, I can't get mad anymore. I am just broken. great. so much for making you mad when i show you my matches.
FlyingVe Posted July 18, 2011 Posted July 18, 2011 I am not salty at all, I can't get mad anymore. I am just broken. I've been a cynical sarcastic pseudo-jerk for a long time. But I take solace in that fact that I do actually care. My point about an account still stands.
A.X.I.S. Posted July 18, 2011 Author Posted July 18, 2011 great. so much for making you mad when i show you my matches. I don't get mad when I play. I get hella mad when I see wrong and I see it continue. Your ass is being watched.
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