[CS2] Litchi vs. Noel

[Romeyurhomey]

So who else think 3C and 2D is bullshit lol?

Only thing I know about this matchup is 6B is gdlyke because of it's range to keep noel anyway and DP during noel's pressure(5a>5b>5c>2c>3c)

Any other suggestions?

[nxastral]

finally a litchi CS2 matchup thread!

I usually play against a fairly decent noel so I know a thing or two on how to punish noel

1) against 3C

3C is highly punishable by litchi on block.

litchi's options are with her staff:

- 5B 2C daisharin to combo 4-5k damage

- 5B(CH) 6C IAD combo 3-4k damage (if you react fast enough for CH)

- or generally use 5B to any combo for around 2k damage

litchi's options staffless:

- if noel used it at point blank range you can, dash 5B leading to JBCB loop 3-3.8k damage

- you can use any starter if you react fast enough except 5B without dash and 6B,

usually deals 2-3k damage

* just remember that good noels won't use that blockstring, 2c and 3c doesn't even combo (5a>5b>5c>2c>3c)

and if they did watch their meter if they can RC out of their 3c, and 5D, 2D or 4D you for thinking it's punishable.

* let's assume that this post isn't directed for noel at the japanese level since this is not a comprehensive guide lol xD

2) against 2D

They can only use it if you get predictable with litchi's 2A and if you use the 3C with litchi's bnb (5B>5C>3C> tsubame) when noel is blocking or you would eat a 2D combo 4-6k

Litchi's options:

- if you blocked 2D, you can either tsubame gaeshi out of it at certain points of her drive

- or just IB that crap and you gain meter! how cool is that? xD

- some noels try to get out of their drive with optic barrel, it's the perfect time to tsubame or punish with 2A>5B>2C> any combo 2-3k

- if you're good at baiting noel's 2D or if she's in drive mode while you aren't hit...... use

THE 6B COUNTER HIT COMBO (litchi's strongest combo starter) 4-6k damage!

note: you still have to time it right because noel's drive has some invincibility frames and if you get predictable she'll know what to do xD

Noel matchup is pretty much how you can keep your distance and if you can gain momentum with staffless litchi shenanigans. Just watch out for noel's 4D and counter assault.

DO NOT IAD without staff release cover or just because you want to jump in! against good noels you will eat their 6A anti air or 4D FC 4-6k

thank you for enduring this wall of text =))

[Dorian]

So who else think 3C and 2D is bullshit lol?

* just remember that good noels won't use that blockstring, 2c and 3c doesn't even combo (5a>5b>5c>2c>3c)

and if they did watch their meter if they can RC out of their 3c, and 5D, 2D or 4D you for thinking it's punishable.

* let's assume that this post isn't directed for noel at the japanese level since this is not a comprehensive guide lol xD

2C and 3C combos if you're crouching, but that blockstring you posted as an example is horrible anyways and no one should use that ever loll.

The biggest thing about fighting Noel is you have to respect her, in the past and still to this day people forget that, and now it's actually very important. Approach her in general like she's tager or hakumen; if you're sloppy she'll open you up.

Edited June 29, 2011 by Dorian

[Star-Demon]

I have real trouble with this one - Noel is invincible for a lot of her drive chains, and if I'm able to read what she's going to do next, it's because I'm getting trolled with flash kick. Noel can be very tough on Litchi because Litchi likes space and time and Noel can either wait to use invincibility or decide to give you no space OR time and flatten you in three combos if you make a mistake or allow her to dictate the pace of the match.

So - after getting beaten god-only-knows how many times - here's what little I know and can offer:

nxastral has a lot of it - except I caution against using "Use your Combos!" as advice - it doesn't give anything to think about or understand. It more or less says "go do homework elsewhere", which makes the thread meaningless.

Here's more what I would like to see in advice:

- I forgot who mentioned it, but after trying it - Noel *does* get stuffed by Hatsu a lot. I'd say this is more a function of understanding how to move around the screen and position and time yourself against Noel. Learn how to watch her and get her rhythm down, because if you are too slow you *will* eat 4k and lose. That's the only lesson, there.

- Tsubamegaeshi is Litchi's best friend in this match. Word of the day - EVERY DAY - is Tsubamegaeshi. Noels that really know their invincibility (GRRRR) will abuse the shit out of it, and you need Litchi's rather decent DP because of its own invincibility, ability to hit from other side (woo?) and two-stage DP that lands in front of where it starts. (although it is now slower in CS2)

Do you see this? TAKE NOTE. It helped me a lot.

- If you are good enough, you can also not let Noel make a plan at any time and rush her down. I advise against this - it requires being able to move FAST with Litchi, along with covering your ass and getting in Noel's face and ass and completely overrunning her by reading her reactions. This is a round 2 thing - you have no way of knowing if it's a good idea, really, unless you know the other player.

- 5B[m] is really useful against her approach but most Noels figure it out or hit buttons through it. Don't get crazy with it. Use 5B to *defend* yourself.

- nxastral is right - Do not follow through on 5B>5C>wishIwasinCTagain on block - you are going to eat it. Noel demands respect, even though it leaves a bad taste in your mouth to do so.

- Staff release cover is a CS thing - you couldn't do it well in CT because you couldn't hit D while running. It's very valuable and I suggest every CS Litchi learn how to synergize with that stick. You cannot slam head-first into Noel. She has too much shit ready for that. Reverse and HIT 'DAT ASS.

- I've found a neutral jump and late 5B[m] to the face works for a lot of characters and situations where you are about to eat combos but have nowhere to go - for Noel it's particularly useful, especially if you can 7 or 9 to her other side and HIT 'DAT ASS and then proceed with LitchiCombos. I don't know why it works so much - maybe it's because they are too busy hitting D to notice or Noel is stuck on the ground.

I hope this helps. Hopefully I helped myself with this! haha!

Edited August 9, 2011 by Star-Demon

[Romeyurhomey]

Wait I'm lost are you talking about CS or CS2 Noel?

[Star-Demon]

Wait I'm lost are you talking about CS or CS2 Noel?

Noel in general - but I definitely leaned towards CS2 for relevancy - I wrote it with CS2 in mind - I mentioned her damage and speed, right?

OHH I see - Warlords video is CS1, I guess. I didn't notice. Sorry about that - anyone have an example like that one of beating out her drives with her new speed? I'll switch it up.

Edited August 9, 2011 by Star-Demon

[Lord Knight]

for future reference, litchi could do 66[d] in ct, it just took a long time to start up (a ton compared to cs2)

General Matchup:

Turtle. Match is even, but very annoying.

Full screen neutral:

-Set the staff, cautiously. Optic Barrel is fast.

-Try setting the stick in between C and B optic barrel range.

-When Noel has 50 meter, beware of air super.

Midscreen neutral:

-Stressful. You have to really pay attention to how they play and how willing they are to take a risk.

-If you have the stick, be cautious when you commit to a move. 5B[m] ,3C[m], Itsuu, or moving should be your general choices. 6B is high risk/high reward.

-5A beats deep jC jump in. 5A is a safe anti-air, Noel's like to exhaust their air movement with dj rather than airdash, making ItsuuA risky.

-Use 5B[m] to stop Noel's from doing dash 2A. Noel's 2A is very big and is +1.

-If you don't have the stick, try to get it back, or use 5D set to try to anti-air.

Noel's Pressure:

-Important stuff: 2A is +1, 5A is -1, 2C is +3, 2B is even.

-Thus, being able to IB 2B and 2C(2nd hit) is absolutely crucial. Because her 2A is 6F and 5A is 5F, you have to IB 2B to stop her from resetting into those moves (if they like doing that). 2C would be even - backstep or DP or block randomly.

-Don't forget that 5C > 6B gatlings.

-Don't fall for the silly 6C > delay 2C gimmick.

-Use Tsubame as a last resort only. Risk heavily outweighs reward.

Noel's Drives:

-Block 2D (IB it if you can), 5A or DP.

-They can bait DP with 4D. If you get the hard read, you can 6D it and get a CH.

-d.6B is 21f, so just stand up and react to the 6D low.

-VS j4D - React and jump! If they jump in on you with an aerial midscreen (say, jA), OS DP (421A+B+D) after it. In the corner, if you can react, use 4D or 2A. 4D will always beat Noel's j4D.

Litchi's Pressure:

-Be cautious. . . .

-2C meaty > D mash.

-2A > 2C beats D mash.

-Delay 6D also works. Intimidate them and get the stick down safely.

-Staffless 2A > 5C beats D, and gets FC.

-6D > 4A > 1A beats D mash. However they can just hit buttons normally. This creates a sort of rps situation where you can do that, cmd backdash airdash back in, etc.

-Alternatively you can do 6D > 1A > 4B. It's safer but you still have to guess a bit since 6D is even on IB and Noel's 2A is 6F.

Daisharin:

-If Noel has less than 50 meter, do the normal stuff.

-If Noel has 50 meter you have 2 options.

A)Do the normal Daisharin setup and mixup. You only have 1 chance - on block she'll CA and she's out of there. On hit, proceed normally.

B)Do Daisharin 191223. Try 1 mixup - if she CA's she'll go into the 22.

[Star-Demon]

Oh cool - thanks LK. I'll have to try it more and see if I can do it well - but It sounds like you wouldn't have the time during a match.

Looks like its "play the shit out of the matchup." or Lose.