Super Dragonball Z

[The Stealer]

hmmm cool

which move do you think would be best for 17? the frieza one? come to think of it he could use that move since characters with stronger projectiles just plow through his...next time I play I'm gonna try that freiza move to see why it's so good...

at the moment I have the Trunks move on cause it goes through energy blasts and it's like a win button against the computer lol

Yeah, I like flex laser alot, but personally, I like having Interrupter (Cell's move) more. It's a great defensive move, as you are moving back and to the side while firing off 4 projectiles. The tracking isn't as great as I initially thought, but I still think it's a solid acquisition.

As for move inheritance banning, I see some merit in that. While the arcade character's moves are okay, the console characters' moves seem questionable. Like Majin Vegeta's counter break. I wouldn't have a problem with it if it was like regular Vegeta's, but the fact that you can combo off of it seems like a bit much. Then again, I've played a grand total of 2 humans, who weren't good, so I can't give a completely accurate view on the matter.

[PozerWolf]

As for move inheritance banning, I see some merit in that. While the arcade character's moves are okay, the console characters' moves seem questionable. Like Majin Vegeta's counter break. I wouldn't have a problem with it if it was like regular Vegeta's, but the fact that you can combo off of it seems like a bit much. Then again, I've played a grand total of 2 humans, who weren't good, so I can't give a completely accurate view on the matter.

Well, the only reason I find it that they should be banned is just to stay true to the arcade as much as possible (like how every other game that is held at tournaments, even tho America would never have the Arcade version of that game or the arcades would be very rare... like GG Slash). Not to mention, it seemed that arcade also had rules themselves, seeing as how there not allowed to fill in the 8th slot or anything.

[PozerWolf]

Hmmm, I don't think understand my argument on why we should stay true to the arcade when it comes to serious tournaments for this game.

Erm, wow... you missed the point completely on why I pointed that out.

And you say Super DBZ only has so many cabs in America? Like I've said before, guess how many cabs we have of Slash in America. And it isn't like GG Slash a very strong scene in America either, yet the people who do play it keep it true to the arcade.

And what about Melty Blood? Shit, I don't recall any arcades being anywhere in America for the game, yet the people who play the game stay true to the arcade as much as possible. Thats how its always been to any game that comes out.

Who cares wiether or not this game has a strong arcade scene or not, its all about staying close the arcade version as much as possible. Thats how its been in tournaments, and thats how it should remain working.

Why change that rule? Just because your so butt horny for the new console-only bullshit you think is balanced? Whoopie-fuckin'-do.

But it seems everyone else is going to agree with you due to the fact that no one else gives a shit about the arcade scene for any game (not just SDBZ). If thats the case, then there opinions shouldn't be taken seriously at all.

So yeah.......... I've already made a very strong point on my argument, and I seriously don't care what else you gotta say about it. You want to change the way things work, fine, but its very unprofessional to do such a move.

But whatever, I already found a salution to the problem in order to find out if players have inherit skills from console-only characters. It tells you when you check your skills, lol :looney:

That seriously isn't the point.

I seriously don't see how people don't understand the sisuation. People want to go against the arcade rules of Super DBZ just because there is no strong arcade scene for this game. So what?! What fighting game isn't like that now a days in America?

Seriously, I don't see how people think its such a great idea on allowing console-only characters in tournaments wiether or not they are broken.

And erm, Mecha Freza is actually really fuckin' good, lol.

Not to mention, I found a salution on how to check if wiether or not the person your player has inherit a console-only ability.

Also, Cell can still have 8 slots (or so its said) in the console version.

If this is true, should it be tournament banned that he is allowed the 8th slot?

[furix]

Cell shouldn't be allowed the 8th slot, as the tourny rules state 7 slots. As for finding out if it's a console only move, how do you find out? I want to know so that I don't accidently put one of them on my serious characters. I am all up for arcade-rules tourny on SDBZ.

[4649]

Does this mean I can't use my 2 million bp Majin Buu card anymore? ;_;

[furix]

You can use it, but not in a tourny. :3

[Tiamat]

lol I feel stupid...I was wondering why Cell was the final boss when Majin buu was playable from the start...lol

[Darkhonor90]

Quick question. Are the unlockable characters tournament allowed? Such as Majin Buu,Videl,Ultimate Gohan etc etc? Or is it just the default characters?

[furix]

The console only characters are not allowed. Meaning these ones: Majin Buu Majin Vegeta King Picolo Big Gohan Videl Mech Freeza Those 6 are console exclusive characters. They are not allowed in tournies along with any inhereted move coming from them. These characters -are- allowed. Goku Vegeta Kid Gohan 16 17 18 Krillin Piccolo ChiChi Cell Freeza Trunks

[Darkhonor90]

The console only characters are not allowed. Meaning these ones:

Majin Buu

Majin Vegeta

King Picolo

Big Gohan

Videl

Mech Freeza

Those 6 are console exclusive characters. They are not allowed in tournies along with any inhereted move coming from them.

These characters -are- allowed.

Goku

Vegeta

Kid Gohan

16

17

18

Krillin

Piccolo

ChiChi

Cell

Freeza

Trunks

thx for the info

[PozerWolf]

I found out more about the 8th slot crap.

So lets say you finish your skill tree with Goku, you can either end up with 4 or 5 skills. Now i'm positive you can only have one more system skill (the purple icon), so you can have 2 system skills in total. Than the rest you can either wish and inherit any other moves you want, though i'm not sure what will happen if you choose the wish to get a system skill when you already have 2, not sure if the wish will overwrite the inherited system skill.

Everybody has 8 slots to begin with and depending on what you do with the skill tree you get 4-3 spaces left.You can definitely have more than 1 inherit battle skill. Also you have to note the arcade version takes SOO long to fill up. The exp bar only fills up when you finish story mode or lose during story mode and also when you lose a VS match, you don't get anything if you win besides BP points -.-

Also in the arcades most people don't even bother inheriting battle skills, most are very competent enough with their own moves, but that doesn't mean inherit battle skills are useless, just depends on each persons taste.

Seems like you could inherit more than one battle skill, which already sounds broken ;p

If thats the case, the only reason Cell is allowed 8 slots is because his skill tree is one level longer. Hence, he finishes with 6 slots once your done with him.

Hmmmmm... so is Cell having 8 abilities on the console truly broken?

[The Stealer]

Seriously, I don't see how people think its such a great idea on allowing console-only characters in tournaments wiether or not they are broken.

While I understand your frustration, I'm gonna have to disagree. I believe the whole point of banning anything in a tournament is because that thing breaks the game, or is unfair to set of players in that game. Soul Calibur 2 provides the best example of banning, IMO. Game breaking glitches are banned, such as Astaroth's [K] glitch (at least in the NTSC-J version). The console version brought new characters, but they were allowed accordingly. Sophie and Seung Mina were solid characters, but by no means broken, so they are always allowed. The console-exclusive characters were banned, because it would be unfair for people who have the Xbox version if a tournament were played on one of the other consoles. While Necrid appeared in all three versions, his abilities were questionable, so he is generally kept out of tournaments.

The point is that banning is used to level out the playing field. There is only one console version, readily available to all players, so banning on the principle of character unavailbility is senseless.

[PozerWolf]

While I understand your frustration, I'm gonna have to disagree. I believe the whole point of banning anything in a tournament is because that thing breaks the game, or is unfair to set of players in that game. Soul Calibur 2 provides the best example of banning, IMO. Game breaking glitches are banned, such as Astaroth's [K] glitch (at least in the NTSC-J version). The console version brought new characters, but they were allowed accordingly. Sophie and Seung Mina were solid characters, but by no means broken, so they are always allowed. The console-exclusive characters were banned, because it would be unfair for people who have the Xbox version if a tournament were played on one of the other consoles. While Necrid appeared in all three versions, his abilities were questionable, so he is generally kept out of tournaments.

When something is considered broken, as in an over-powered move, no matter what version of course, chances are its going to get banned.

But the thing, even tho certain features were not broken on the console version, but were in the arcade version, they were not allowed at console tournaments. An example (even tho it isnt arcade) is what you just said.

The console-exclusive characters were banned, because it would be unfair for people who have the Xbox version if a tournament were played on one of the other consoles

But you might go off thinking, "Well, why should we worry about it in SDBZ sisuation? There are hardly any arcade cabs for the game to begin with in America". This can be said about any other game.

For example: Guilty Gear Slash.

In Guilty Gear, the EX are not exactly broken. In fact, some people believe that are worse than there original counter-parts. But they are not allowed a tournies because they are not in the Arcade version. This is the only reason why they are banned from console tournaments.

At a #R vs Slash in Japan, it was shown that Slash Ky would take out #R Eddie (Eddie being very good in #R, of course). Yet in Slash tournaments for console, they do not allow #R characters due to the lack of the feature being on arcade. Unless of course people just want to have some fun and mess around a bit, lol (kind of like that tourny I just mentioned).

In look how many cabs for Guilty Gear Slash there are in America... seriously. Yet the community is going to take this game as true to the arcade as much as possible.

And of course, what about Melty Blood?

Seriously, I have no idea where you can find an Arcade cab here in America for that game, yet the community in America are trying to be true to the arcade port as much as possible.

Thats how things have been working for every game now, so why change that rule?

[The Stealer]

When something is considered broken, as in an over-powered move, no matter what version of course, chances are its going to get banned.

But the thing, even tho certain features were not broken on the console version, but were in the arcade version, they were not allowed at console tournaments. An example (even tho it isnt arcade) is what you just said.

The console-exclusive characters were banned, because it would be unfair for people who have the Xbox version if a tournament were played on one of the other consoles

But you might go off thinking, "Well, why should we worry about it in SDBZ sisuation? There are hardly any arcade cabs for the game to begin with in America". This can be said about any other game.

For example: Guilty Gear Slash.

<snip>

Thats how things have been working for every game now, so why change that rule?

Well, that quote you took from my post is a bit out of context. The characters I refered to were Heihachi, Link and Spawn. The reason they are banned is not because they aren't in the arcade, but because they are not uniformly available in the game, i.e. you can't use Heihachi on the Gamecube. As I said before, Sophitia and Seung Mina, who weren't in the arcade, have always been allowed, as far as I know.

Although you do bring up a good point with the Guilty Gear example; I guess non-arcade character banning is practiced more frequently than I originally thought. Soul Calibur 3 also has examples of this, but that game is so messed up, it's hard to use it in this debate.

Anyway, my opinion remains that these characters should be allowed until something retardedly broken is found, because I think the addition of new characters brings more depth to the game. But that's just me.

[PozerWolf]

Well, that quote you took from my post is a bit out of context. The characters I refered to were Heihachi, Link and Spawn. The reason they are banned is not because they aren't in the arcade, but because they are not uniformly available in the game, i.e. you can't use Heihachi on the Gamecube. As I said before, Sophitia and Seung Mina, who weren't in the arcade, have always been allowed, as far as I know.

Although you do bring up a good point with the Guilty Gear example; I guess non-arcade character banning is practiced more frequently than I originally thought. Soul Calibur 3 also has examples of this, but that game is so messed up, it's hard to use it in this debate.

Anyway, my opinion remains that these characters should be allowed until something retardedly broken is found, because I think the addition of new characters brings more depth to the game. But that's just me.

Well, I knew about the console issue for SC2.

But you see, being that game had a strong scene for it during its time (serious players or not), by some logic within' your post, they should've allowed these hidden characters in tournaments, mainly because they were not broken. And as you said, as long as there not broken, then its ok for them to be allowed.

Same issue with people who played the SDBZ arcade and goto console. New characters, but not broken, so they should be allowed. And seeing as how SC2 was not hard to find or get (even by today), well...

But then again, I never saw SC as a serious game >_>

And you can't rule SC3 just because its messed up. The arcade version did fix up retarded glitches. But then again, what fighting game doesen't have its issue.

Still, I'd still would like it to stand by arcade rules, and just because these hidden characters will be taken out, by no means does that mean the game will lose depth. But of course, this is your opinion, and I kind of doubt this game will ever have a strong enough scene for this argument to be truly worth debating.

But overall, its like I've said. Fighting games try to stay as close to the arcade rules as possible. Why change it now?

Not to mention it seemed like when they ported it to console, they had it forced apon the rules that they had it at tournaments in japan. Only 7 slots, 1 inherit ability or skill, and one wish ability. While in Arcade, you were able to inherit as much as you need and were allowed 2 wishes, as long as you got your 8 slots filled.

[PozerWolf]

I still need to mess with the ISO and change some of the songs.

The American version that replaced Cha-La Head-Cha-La isn't that bad... but I'd rather have Cha-La Head-Cha-La and random Budokai 1 music.

[The Stealer]

Well, I knew about the console issue for SC2.

But you see, being that game had a strong scene for it during its time (serious players or not), by some logic within' your post, they should've allowed these hidden characters in tournaments, mainly because they were not broken. And as you said, as long as there not broken, then its ok for them to be allowed.

Same issue with people who played the SDBZ arcade and goto console. New characters, but not broken, so they should be allowed. And seeing as how SC2 was not hard to find or get (even by today), well...

But then again, I never saw SC as a serious game >_>

And you can't rule SC3 just because its messed up. The arcade version did fix up retarded glitches. But then again, what fighting game doesen't have its issue.

Don't get me wrong, I like SC3 just fine. But if you look at the community, getting a standard set of rules of what is and isn't allowed is like pulling teeth. I think it's tough to use that game to argue for either side.

I don't think there's a right or wrong side on this issue; I think it's really up to the community of the game in question. While I have my opinion, I would have absolutely no problems with banning them all if that's what everybody wants (my favs are 17 and Frieza anyway). I just think it'd be more fun, that's all. :angel:

[PozerWolf]

Don't get me wrong, I like SC3 just fine. But if you look at the community, getting a standard set of rules of what is and isn't allowed is like pulling teeth. I think it's tough to use that game to argue for either side.

lol, I didn't know SC3 had a community ;p

[Darkhonor90]

lol, I didn't know SC3 had a community ;p

It doesn't. It's a myth beyond all myths =O

Anyway. Does anyone still playing SDBZ? ;_;

[furix]

I am, and pozerwolf is too. As you can see we are here organizing tournament rules. :s

[PozerWolf]

I still play it.

[Darkhonor90]

I still play it.

Pozer and Furix. Get ur ass down to Florida ^_^

[Tiamat]

The SC3 community is still more active and large than the Virtua Fighter 4: Evo community...just wanted to say that. Talking about the USA here...

[PozerWolf]

Pozer and Furix. Get ur ass down to Florida ^_^

For you to tell Furix to goto Florida is to get Furix to get to where I live.

We live about 3 hours away, and hes the only guy I know that plays it seriously.

Actually, I got a friend of mine who plays Melee seriously that is trying to get into the game. Hes not bad at all, but his only issue is that he lacks a stick ;(

The SC3 community is still more active and large than the Virtua Fighter 4: Evo community...just wanted to say that. Talking about the USA here...

AW MAN, THIS MAN IS SHIT TALKING!!!

SOMEONE STOP HIM!!

[Tiamat]

I am sure a horde of VF fans will come in and reprimand me. I play(ed) almost everything. :P