Dead or Alive 5

[Hollysmoke]

Holy shit, can you actually read or not? I never once confused sex appeal and sexism. Putting words into my mouth isn't getting anywhere and creating a pointless debate.

I feel at odds with the sexualisation of characters. I understand that for characters like Christie and Tina, that is part of their character and who they are, I won't deny that. 

I will deny costumes like Ayane's C34, which is absurd.

 

 

 

Yes, because this soft-ban was instated by the minority 

 

"I don't like the sex appeal of the game, but I'm totally okay with forcing this opinion on other people who may or may not enjoy it regardless"

You keep supporting that "soft ban". The characters aren't one-note, sidelined characters specific to the point of simply being objects of sexual gratification; their sexuality is open and defined, and ties into the rest of their character. When people like you start feeling "uncomfortable" by it is when women have to keep defending their choice to do what they want or wear what they feel like. The issue isn't whether or not you find it sexist, it's the fact that your attitude is suppressive of female progression in any medium. Soon enough, I'll have to wear a long skirt because my ankles will offend your senses. Gross, now I'm covered in tumblr ooze. Look what you made me do. Just shut up and go play games people.

[VermilionBird]

White knight? Please, I couldn't care less for what sex you are, and I couldn't care less for her sex.
Your argument is that since I clearly don't want breasts shoved down my throat, I am a white knight. Sound logic, I'm sure. 
God forbid I want to play a good fighting game without the boobs in my face. Oh what a world, what a world.

The fact that this soft-ban applies mainly to live streams of the game and huge tournaments, I obviously don't get what your point is since it is meant for people who do take the game competitively.

[VermilionBird]

I'm struggling to see how this is worth my time since this has progressed into modern feminism and what constitutes suppression, etc. and isn't about the actual game itself.

[Hollysmoke]

I'm struggling to see how this is worth my time since this has progressed into modern feminism and what constitutes suppression, etc. and isn't about the actual game itself.

 

Well, you brought up the point of sexualization in a form of modern media, I gave you an out and you didn't take it. Now you can lie in the bed you made. This isn't a matter of modern feminism, it's been a thing that's been around for decades, unfortunately certain groups of people have blown it out of proportion. My power keeps going out so I'll try to make this quick; you're playing a game who's main selling point is sex appeal. A game, who's designer and creator since the FIRST GAME advertised that appeal as a marketing ploy, and in many interviews didn't even hide this fact, stating specifically that's why he created it. It worked, people like it. For 20 years people have enjoyed it, and now by hiding behind a social issue as an excuse, one group of people want to take away something enjoyable from another group of people. The feminism was brought up because you need to understand the issues that contrast against the social issue people are hiding behind. "The game is sexst!" No, it's not. "It's a gratuitous sexualization of women!" No, it's not. "It makes me uncomfortable!" then don't play it. Just because you don't like something doesn't mean you should have to ruin it for others, especially when you're hiding behind a social point to do so.

[TekkamanArk]

You know why I like DOA? I like the counter system, and it's generally fun to play. I respect it as a game. I also realize, however, that i'm in the minority in this situation. While the counter system is a lot of fun, as is the game itself, DOA got its claim to fame from boob physics, like Mortal Kombat got its fanbase due to Fatalities even though it had other unique things, such as the sprites being digitized versions of the actors. You can make the claim that you got into DOA for whatever reason you want to (like myself, who got into it for the counters and for the Danger Zone mechanic in DOA1), but don't pretend that's the reason it got a name.

 

Also, just saying, you probably shouldn't be making comments about sexualization of female characters in a game while using a Noel avatar. It's just going to end poorly.

[Hollysmoke]

You know why I like DOA? I like the counter system, and it's generally fun to play. I respect it as a game. I also realize, however, that i'm in the minority in this situation. While the counter system is a lot of fun, as is the game itself, DOA got its claim to fame from boob physics, like Mortal Kombat got its fanbase due to Fatalities even though it had other unique things, such as the sprites being digitized versions of the actors. You can make the claim that you got into DOA for whatever reason you want to (like myself, who got into it for the counters and for the Danger Zone mechanic in DOA1), but don't pretend that's the reason it got a name.

 

Also, just saying, you probably shouldn't be making comments about sexualization of female characters in a game while using a Noel avatar. It's just going to end poorly.

 

Actually, the counter system is what I enjoyed about it too, as well as a lot of other DOA players. That's why I enjoyed 2 quite a bit; it's like a complex system of rock paper scissors. 

[VermilionBird]

I don't appreciate oversexualisation. As stated before, if it's in their character, then that's perfectly acceptable. I don't agree with the over sexualisation of Noel either.
DOA attracted me as a fighter. The counter system is beautiful and I thoroughly enjoy the gameplay it has to offer, especially with the dynamic environments such Gambler's Paradise and Temple on the Mountain. 

I won't deny that DOA got the label it has now because of the aforementioned attributes. It will always be a part of it, but the soft-ban was instated for a reason. It won't stop casual players from enjoying the game and the content.
That's my last word on the matter.

[TAI-X]

Your argument is that since I clearly don't want breasts shoved down my throat, I am a white knight. Sound logic, I'm sure. 

God forbid I want to play a good fighting game without the boobs in my face. Oh what a world, what a world.

Then don't ever play Blazblue, since it has characters like Litchi, Taokaka, Bullet and Mu. I'm sure it would be a very triggering and traumatic experience for you, what with all the boobie jokes in story mode.

 

Oh wait, you're currently running a tumblr ask blog that's the BB equivalent of Blade's Gear Project, and you have the series' primary sexualized waifu as your avatar. Hypocrisy much?

[Hollysmoke]

C'mon now, at least keep it as a discussion and not an attack. Let's get this thread back on track, yeah? 

[TAI-X]

Yeah, I think Holly and me can declare victory in this argument now. This is my last post until I actually have something new to comment regarding the game itself.

[TekkamanArk]

Also, just saying, this soft ban is meaningless on 2 fronts. The ban is left up to the tournament organizer (and I severely doubt many of the organizers personally care to that extreme), and the costumes in question were rarely used in tournaments (and the negative press might cause them to make a much larger appearance now, rather than the nonexistant amount before).

[Hollysmoke]

I just want Hayabusa in a banana hammock and his ninja mask.

 

I detest these kinds of discussions because people always get passionate about the topic. So no more please. Mercy.

[TekkamanArk]

I just want Hayabusa in a banana hammock and his ninja mask.

 

Isn't that already a thing, but he has gloves too for some reason?

[Hollysmoke]

Isn't that already a thing, but he has gloves too for some reason?

 

Must...resist...urge to respond with sexual innuendo...

[D.R.F.]

I mean hey you have i-no as your profile. It's okay for you lol

[Hollysmoke]

I mean hey you have i-no as your profile. It's okay for you lol

 

HE ONLY NEEDS ONE GLOVE.

 

ARE THEY RUBBER GLOVES?

 

THE GLOVES MAY COME OFF, BUT SOMETHING ELSE IS STILL GOING TO BE ON.

 

These are horrible and I'm glad I got it out of my system.

I'm out. Stay frosty.

[Antaiseito]

Then play a different game instead of forcing your tastes onto this one.

A small minority desperate for outside approval, who takes the game too seriously.

 

Why the hell would he have to stop playing a game if he likes the mechanics of it? It's like telling Smash players

"Hey, the producer of your game wanted to make a party game, as stated clearly by Brawls tripping mechanic. If you hate items so much, shut up and play Nidhogg and let the majority of people enjoy that game while drunk, with items and 4 player free for all, how it's supposed to be played!"

 

He wasn't even whiteknighting or feminizing or anything.

Also TAI-X, the competitive scene for any game is the minority, so why should they be forbidden to try to show to the general public that their game contains more than boobs or violence or random crap or anime tropes for that matter?

 

By the way, in my opinion it's totally random to come here (oder eventhubs) and "Mortal Kombat is brutal, too, why don't the DoA-community rebel against Mortal Kombat first", what does that have to do with anything, the MK-community should decide that on their own. O_o  And as stated they already play with tournament-settings to switch off the violence that is not needed to enjoy the game competitively.

 

I'm more concerned about going to a tournament and feeling uncomfortable because of some creepy guy not respecting my personal space more than I am of digital breasts; the same people who can casually bring up rape as a humorous topic of discussion on twitch channels. *I* could go on, but I digress; I hate tumblr and I don't feel like tumblring this shit up.

 

Sure, i also loath the casual use of rape-related stuff in the FGC. But that's like saying "What? We can't have world peace? Then why should we put any effort to stopping conflict, it's not worth it." Just because they're trying to show DoA in a more serious light does not mean that they would rather approve of RL-molestation .. i guess O.o

 

 

What i agree on: Everyone play Virtua Fighter, it's so so good!

 

Dislaimer:

I also don't mean to attack anyone, i just don't get what everyones problem is with this topic. It feels like everyone is afraid this will mean the end of freedom in the modern world, kind of like this

 

Soon enough, I'll have to wear a long skirt because my ankles will offend your senses.

 

Really?

[Hollysmoke]

-Snip-

 

I'm fairly certain the point I was making is somewhere in orbit around the moon as it flies completely over your head. The point is, changing the policy on "sexy outfits" is not going to matter for any social reason, and it's not fair to the people who DO enjoy that particular element of the game; especially since it's cosmetic, it has no effect on the gameplay. The ankles thing is a reference to certain laws back in the 1920s where women weren't allowed to show skin. 

[IndigoNovember]

If the community wants to remind/show people that Dead or Alive 5 Last Round is a legitimate fighting game, wouldn't showcasing the good mechanics and systems do a lot more than soft-banning costumes?  Going from "that game with sexy costumes" to "that game with soft banned sexy costumes" doesn't seem to be that much of an improvement, whereas going to something like "that game with sexy costumes and interesting, not overpowered counter mechanics" is a bit better.

[VermilionBird]

At least it's a softban that can be discussed instead of a hardban that is basically forced.
In the end, it depends on a lot of factors.

[Hollysmoke]

At least it's a softban that can be discussed instead of a hardban that is basically forced.

In the end, it depends on a lot of factors.

 

Softban...what the fuu--dshuhub...heck does that even mean? It's either banned or it's not. If it's not forced, then it's basically just a stern recommendation and finger-waggling, like you're shaming people for choosing a sexy costume. 

[VermilionBird]

Sex Appeal in the DOA franchise will never go away but we, the community, want people to take it seriously and started the costume ban at offline tournaments to force people to focus more on the gameplay aspect of the game. This is a soft ban and is at the discretion of the TO running the game at the event.

However we HIGHLY encourage people to not use the suggested costumes on stream for something like Top 8.

 

That's part of the quote from HuBBs.

It's pretty much an optional ban as I understand it

[Antaiseito]

The ankles thing is a reference to certain laws back in the 1920s where women weren't allowed to show skin. 

Yeah, i know the past was riddled with ridiculous stupid rules we never want to come back. I'm with you there.

 

But why would someone attending a tournament and getting in top 8 and play on stream (for which the soft ban is proposed to be applied by TOs on their discretion) be someone that cannot enjoy DoA without a revealing costume?

They are not trying to force people not to use and enjoy these costumes at all but to show to the general public (that generally has no idea what's going on) that it's a fighting game that you can enjoy also with your clothes on, so to show that it has other merits, too, that do not require the one selling point everyone knows about.

If viewed as this, is it still a problem?

 

I'm sorry if i missed your point somewhere, i didn't read every post of today completely due to time-constraints -.-

 

Well later today i read another article about a guy in germany that gets curious looks and called crazy for going out in winter just wearing a t-shirt, because he's just used to the cold. So as you see, the public ist very stupid and close-minded, at least in our parts, without questioning anything beyond what they see and WANT TO imagine about it.

Maybe see the soft-ban as something like someone suggesting that you cover your ancles when visisting them, because they got a dog that tends to snap at juicy ankles.

 

To answer your other question: A soft-ban by the community as i understand it is more a suggestions for TOs to follow if they want their game to thrive in the public eye.

 

I would understand the outrage if there was a group of people that wanted to abolish naked skin in video-games, no question!

But with what they're trying to do i just don't get the panic at all ^_^

[The Magnet Technician]

A lot of the costumes are really stupid, but honestly I don't see what the point of soft-banning them is. Does anybody really think the series is ever gonna live this down even if they start sanitizing the tournaments?

[swordsman09]

A lot of the costumes are really stupid, but honestly I don't see what the point of soft-banning them is. Does anybody really think the series is ever gonna live this down even if they start sanitizing the tournaments?

IT'S LIKE THEY KNEW!!! Even they know the rich plot development involved in DOA. Man was the latest story a good one! lol

 

But I remember reading that article calling these people manchildren. It also said that the team actually gets more requests of increasing the sex rather than toning it down. I wonder if the day will come when the community actually gets people to look at DOA as a serious game. Probably not. lol