[CSE] Ragna vs μ-12-

[Final Ultima]

Discuss the Ragna vs. Mu matchup here.

[VR-Raiden]

Block Punishes vs Mu:

Guaranteed:

j.2C (blocked high punishes listed, if she does it low enough it's safe)

- (dash) 5A (also CH out of cancels to specials, range dependent)

- (dash) 5B (blocked really high, also CH out of cancels to specials, range dependent)

236A (blocked at point blank range)

- (dash) 5A

- IB > (dash) 5B

623C

- (dash) FC 2C

63214C lv1/lv2 (safer at long range)

- (dash) 5B

- 5C

Super

- (dash) FC 2C

- BK > 5B

- During flash BK > FC 2C

Astral

- (dash) FC 2C

- BK > 5B

- During flash BK > FC 2C

Anyone let me know if something isn't true or feel free to add anything I miss.

Edited May 16, 2012 by VR-Raiden

[Zeromus_X]

j.2C (she has the option of canceling to air specials, punishes listed are for when she lands without canceling)

If they just do j2C > 236A, you should be able to 5A or DP if you IB. A lower to the ground j2C (ex: she does IAD jB (jA) > j2C or a jump in jB > j2C blockstring) is trickier since it has much less recovery and she can also cancel her landing into specials, but you can always DP out of its startup.

[C0R]

Block Punishes vs Mu:

j.2C (she has the option of canceling to air specials, punishes listed are for when she lands without canceling)

- (dash) 5A

- IB > (dash) 5B

236A

- (dash) 5A

- IB > (dash) 5B

623C

- (dash) FC 2C

6C lv1/lv2

- (dash) 5B

- 5C

Super

- (dash) FC 2C

- BK > 5B

- During flash BK > FC 2C

Astral

- (dash) FC 2C

- BK > 5B

- During flash BK > FC 2C

Anyone let me know if something isn't true or feel free to add anything I miss.

j.2c is safe on block unless used at an improper height.

236a is only punishable if you're blocking the first active frame (which is rare, due to pushback on blocking pre-special cancel), else it becomes +2 at worst, +25~ at best. Block it crouching to duck under the latter hits as it rises.

Edited April 1, 2012 by C0R

[VR-Raiden]

Thanks for the input, I'll make adjustments next chance I get.

[Gramas]

I found that is important to IB 2C/5C so that she can't safe gatling into 6C,if you IB 2C or 5C(especialy if those are gatlings after 2C/5C)you can safe dash IN and evade the 6C and hit her on CH

You can also IB 6C and punish her if she cancels into steins but you get hit if she cancels into the sphere(cant remember the name/motion)

[VR-Raiden]

Updated, I think I'll start dividing it into two categories: 100% guaranteed punishes, and not guaranteed but probably good to know.

[VR-Raiden]

Updated again, took out 6C punishes cuz apparently she can jump cancel after setting Steins after it. So there's nothing you can get guaranteed, even on IB. You can still punish it if they don't cancel to anything though.

[Dont_Explain]

Something I found out in training:

If a Mu does a blockstring and ends with 236A and you are far enough away that it doesn't hit you when it first comes out is to jump straight up and GH. Don't TK just jump up a little then GH. You get a CH if you do it fast enough and it seems easier than timing a j.C

Also something silly I found if Mu does 5C>6C>set steins and you DP the 6C it should clash and you can cancel it with 5A and dash 5B to punish or cancel it with j.A and airdash to punish/pressure. Canceling with j.A seems harder since you have to wait a bit and if you miss it then you just continue ID'ing, but if you do it you get more damage and it looks cooler imo to cancel the ID and airdash.

Edited May 12, 2012 by Dont_Explain

[C0R]

If a Mu does a blockstring and ends with 236A and you are far enough away that it doesn't hit you when it first comes out is to jump straight up and GH. Don't TK just jump up a little then GH. You get a CH if you do it fast enough and it seems easier than timing a j.C

Did you test this against tk 7j.236a at optimal 3c range? That's one of the only situations where Ragna can't take his guaranteed IB 5a punish. The others being max range 5c 236a or 6c 236a.

Also something silly I found if Mu does 5C>6C>set steins and you DP the 6C it should clash and you can cancel it with 5A and dash 5B to punish or cancel it with j.A and airdash to punish/pressure. Canceling with j.A seems harder since you have to wait a bit and if you miss it then you just continue ID'ing, but if you do it you get more damage and it looks cooler imo to cancel the ID and airdash.

Keep in mind that if a move does clash, Mu can also clash cancel into say, another 6c, which would CH you out of 5b, or catch the airdash. For safety's sake, she could clash cancel into 236a, which Ragna is going to have a hard time dealing with if you're at the range to contact 6c.

Edited May 12, 2012 by C0R

[KayEff]

5C - 6C, ID clashes with 6C, clash cancel into hell's fang

works against any special that mu cancels into, but doesn't work against, say, 5C.

[Dont_Explain]

Did you test this against tk 7j.236a at optimal 3c range? That's one of the only situations where Ragna can't take his guaranteed IB 5a punish. The others being max range 5c 236a or 6c 236a.

I'm obviously doing it wrong cause I can dash 5a. I have to IB to do it, but it's possible.

[C0R]

5C - 6C, ID clashes with 6C, clash cancel into hell's fang

works against any special that mu cancels into, but doesn't work against, say, 5C.

5cccccccccccccccccccccccccc...

...cccccccccccccccccccccc!

[NightShade]

I found rushing Mu-12 down with out letting her breath is the best option getting her to the corner and do the longest corner combo possible. Beware of her DP and projectiles boomerangs.

[Fistmaster049]

I found rushing Mu-12 down with out letting her breath is the best option getting her to the corner and do the longest corner combo possible. Beware of her DP and projectiles boomerangs.

Pretty much yeah