[CSE] Lambda vs Ragna

kenja0 · January 3, 2012

The Official Lambda vs Ragna Matchup Thread

Matchup Ranking: 5.5-4.5
The Enemy's Assessment: [CSEX] Ragna vs Lambda

Overview

Ragna is a rushdown machine. Despite his options being as plain as a shoto, he is still an effectively powerful character. His weaknesses involve his approach, but his strong points are his simple and ranged pressure game. Lambda can zone him out fine, but if Ragna gets in it could easily turn into a loss.

Ragna is also a very popular character. More likely than not, you'll be playing against Ragna online or in some tournaments. Take notes from this thread.

General Strategy

Ragna's pressure is too simple. He doesn't have tools that make him magically invincible to anything, or that alter his jump's trajectory in a positive way (Gauntlet Hades isn't good for approaching; it's for risky blockstring pressure). He's got 2 options, on the ground or in the air. Any D move and anti-air normal will suffice to keep him out with proper play.

To make it much harder for Ragna to get in, it is also good to throw out lots of Spike Chasers. This move breaks a primer, and attacks really high. This forces Ragna to either double jump or super jump to escape it, which takes away his ground approach and limits his air mobility. On the off chance he can't get over it, he just lost a primer/got hit confirmed into a combo. Even if Ragna hits you with j.C, as long as you finish the startup of Spike Chaser- it will trade in Lambda's favor.

If Ragna gets in, just be weary of his pressure. Take note of his revolver action table- 6B (his overhead) is pretty scary since he can combo right from it without Heat. Gauntlet Hades is also a really good overhead he can throw out at any time to catch Lambda off guard, but he requires Heat, correct spacing, or a CH to combo from it.

Watch out for Dead Spikes in pressure. The move has start up, breaks a primer, and contains heavy blockstun that leaves him at +3 advantage. This attack can essentially reset pressure for him. Lambda has to be really paying attention to escape from Dead Spikes- these are the best openings for Lambda to get out Ragna's pressure.

Rapid Cancel: Ragna is most dangerous when he gets 50 Heat. It makes all of his pressure reset. Any Inferno Divider, Hell's Fang, or whatever the end of his blockstring may be, will lead to a RC to get right back in your face.

50 Heat: The Game

Starring: Ragna=the=Bloodedge
Ragna generates Heat like a madman. Whether it be in pressure or a combo, his Heat builds really fast. It's unfortunate for us too, because as soon as Ragna gets 50 Heat, you're going to be looking at one hell of a scary pressure game. Assume any and all attacks Ragna throws out will be RC'ed. This calls for you to be more attentive than normal.

Good Tools For The Match Up

[table=width: 800]

j.2D
Start:13F
Recover:32F
When Lambda is retreating in the air, this move will cover a lot of Ragna's options for getting in. There's really no way to go wrong with this move.

j.214D
Overhead
Start:17F
Advan:-8F
Crescent Saber: Covers everywhere Ragna can be coming from. Does Not work at point blank since there is a hole in front of Lambda.

214D©
Start(N):35F
Start©:63F
Spike Chaser: This is a great move to keep Ragna out. Don't know if he'll come from the air or ground? Throw this out. His Dead Spike can destroy these, but it limits his approach, nonetheless, AND he can get hit out of it with proper spacing/timing.

[/table]

Things To Look Out For

[table=width: 800]

6B
Overhead
Start:24F
His overhead, which doesn't require a RC to combo into high damage with it. 5A, 2A, 2B, 2C can lead into it.

623C/D
Invul©:1~18F
Start:7F
Inferno Divider: This is Ragna's go to move. From any gap in pressure to being used as pressure, with 50 Heat this move can convert some heavy damage.

214D
Start:28F
Advan:3F
Dead Spike: Resets his pressure

(j)214B
Overhead
Start(G):20F
Start(A):12F
Gauntlet Hades

632146D
Invul:1~6F
Carnage Scissors: It has projectile invincibility around the beginning. If you got less than 2500 HP left, then maybe you should worry about this move. Otherwise, don't sweat it, RC's are far more important to him.

[/table]

Conclusion

The fight can be considered simple with careful zoning tactics and smart reads. However, as soon as Ragna gets in, be ready for some crazy stuff to happen. Also, be sure to pay attention to when he gets 50 Heat. This match can be stressful, but alas, it isn't a bad match up.

Will Update With Feedback Edited June 17, 2012 by kenja0

toanenadiz · January 3, 2012

MATCH-UP VIDS

Hero★zu ni otsu vs Ishie

Sakamoto vs Pedooru

YY vs Yutta

Peso vs Goro Goro match

Duda vs X JAPAN/YOSHIKI

Edited May 21, 2012 by toanenadiz

lime93 · January 3, 2012

I want to ask those who have Extend already, when you're fighting Ragna and he has 50 heat, are you a little less likely to throw out a sword to bait the now projectile invincible carnage scissors.

kenja0 · January 4, 2012

I want to ask those who have Extend already, when you're fighting Ragna and he has 50 heat, are you a little less likely to throw out a sword to bait the now projectile invincible carnage scissors.

Unless health is below 2500, it isn't a much threat. Ragna's meter is better spent on RCs to get in. If your defense isn't solid enough, then maybe it's a bit more scary.

toanenadiz · January 4, 2012

Treat it like a worse Mizuchi Rekkazan.

LuminAbyss · January 4, 2012

Unless:

-You are in or near the corner. Comboing meterlessly off of CH Carnage Scissors is possible in those cases. This can end up in 4k easily.

-Ragna has 100 heat. Then say bye-bye to 5 or 6k

As far as baiting it goes, I don't think there is any real way to do it, Lambda has insane recovery on all of her projectiles, and Ragna can perform this on reaction to almost all of her D moves and specials. Hell, he can even go through her supers with this.

Projectile Invul Carnage Scissors is by no means a huge problem for you guys, but if Ragna is sitting on a lot of meter, it's gonna be another thing you will have to watch out for.

Edited January 4, 2012 by LuminAbyss

KayEff · January 4, 2012

carnage scissors is really bad.

if you're at full range against ragna, you don't need to worry about getting hit by the move. chances are if ragna does CS at that range, any projectile you throw out will probably catch him after projectile invul is done, and if you don't throw a projectile you can react to it and simply use something like 2B.

but be wary if he's at mid-range. that's his sweet zone in the matchup and carnage scissors will work against some projectiles if used correctly.

basically the matchup's pretty much the same as before :/

InfiniteChaos · January 4, 2012

I still think this is one of Ragna's worst matchups. He has no real way to get in on you (thats safe other than dash and cancel into barrier). The only thing that really changed is 6B is much more scary now along with his increased damage output and meter gain. When he gets you in pressure just look out for 6B and try to react to it. He can only cancel into 6B off of 2A, 5A, 2B, and 2C.

Oh and like the opening says look out for anything once he gets 50 Heat.

M19Kamikaze · January 7, 2012

The projectile invulnerability is only during the initial dash

*Invincible* Carnage...*not invincible* Scissors

If that's not the case, then I have no idea why I've been hitting them out of that

kenja0 · June 13, 2012

Updated the front a bit. Since Ragna is the most common character online (and the best character no less), I think it's important to focus more on this thread.

someonewhodied · June 14, 2012

" Gauntlet Hades is also a really good overhead he can throw out at any time to catch Lambda off guard, but he requires Heat, spacing, or a CH to combo from it."

He gets about 3.5K midscreen to corner OR in corner with no heat OR ch from gauntlet hades. He can also get the same damage from 2 different combos at any range it hits from.

He can do:

GH>665D(1)>214D>665C>j.5C>dj.5C>j.214C>Ect at close (Safe to burst at the start of it)

or

GH>high jump>j.5C>dj.5C>j.214C>ect from the edge of GH, and he can easily burst bait with a jump cancel until the dj.5C hits.

kenja0 · June 17, 2012

" Gauntlet Hades is also a really good overhead he can throw out at any time to catch Lambda off guard, but he requires Heat, spacing, or a CH to combo from it."

He gets about 3.5K midscreen to corner OR in corner with no heat OR ch from gauntlet hades. He can also get the same damage from 2 different combos at any range it hits from.
He can do:
GH>665D(1)>214D>665C>j.5C>dj.5C>j.214C>Ect at close (Safe to burst at the start of it)
or
GH>high jump>j.5C>dj.5C>j.214C>ect from the edge of GH, and he can easily burst bait with a jump cancel until the dj.5C hits.

I don't retract my statement. Gauntlet Hades is a good overhead that Ragna can throw out at any time. To combo off it, it requires 1 of 3 things to happen: Heat, correct spacing and timing so he can get that sj>j.C, or a CH that carries farther. I didn't state it wasn't impossible without Heat... just difficult.

Edited June 17, 2012 by kenja0

BeaverDeity · June 21, 2012

He gets about 3.5K midscreen to corner OR in corner with no heat OR ch from gauntlet hades.

Wow, didn't know that. Gotta watch out for GH more closely now that I know how dangerous it is. Never seen a Ragna do that much damage off of a non-CH no heat GH though

someonewhodied · June 21, 2012

So i was screwing around with ragna in training mode (My policy is learn to use a character in order to learn what to do against him)

Well, he can get 5K off of anything with 50% meter. (if its corner or midscreen to corner anyways)

I mean, i was screwing around and got an antiair combo with ragna that will do the job:

6A(Ch)>j.5C>j.5D>j.214D>RC>j.5D>5C>5D(1)>214214D>Standard BK combo (Minus the belial edge part)>214214D

You literally have to watch out for anything and everything, groundhit, airhit, grab, everything..

I guess its back to "learn to block" <.<

Fluck · June 21, 2012

Uh.

Just 6A(CH) 5C 5D (1) 214214D will do.

Also, why bother mentioning that you need the right timing in order to combo off GH? It's like saying Lambda can't combo off 236B in the corner if she doesn't 'have the right timing.' Of course you assume the opponent knows how to do combos.

Edited June 21, 2012 by Fluck

someonewhodied · June 21, 2012

Uh.

Just 6A(CH) 5C 5D (1) 214214D will do.

Also, why bother mentioning that you need the right timing in order to combo off GH? It's like saying Lambda can't combo off 236B in the corner if she doesn't 'have the right timing.' Of course you assume the opponent knows how to do combos.

I never do optimal combos over flashy ones.

kenja0 · June 23, 2012

Uh.

Just 6A(CH) 5C 5D (1) 214214D will do.

Also, why bother mentioning that you need the right timing in order to combo off GH? It's like saying Lambda can't combo off 236B in the corner if she doesn't 'have the right timing.' Of course you assume the opponent knows how to do combos.

Knowing the difficulty of a combo can help determine the skill level of the opponent. Scrubby players will do scrubby tactics like throw out random ID and fail hitconfirms. It's obvious that the best of the best will be able to do that, but we're fighting all sorts of players playing the same character- they will have different tech or may approach a situation differently. idk, maybe I'm just overly analyzing the situation... or maybe you're being overly analytical for noticing something so unimportant.

Fluck · June 28, 2012

Eh, comboing off GH is easy, honestly. If you wanna take that angle then I'd watch out for guys who can do 214B 214D 66 5D Dash Cancel 5C j.C j.D j.D 623D~

someonewhodied · June 28, 2012

And with ragna, you are allowed to be flashy instead of optimal.

SKD has a combo completely focused on 22D whiff cancels. X_x

If only lambda could do fun things like that.

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[CSE] Lambda vs Ragna

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