[CSE] Makoto Nanaya's General Gameplay Discussion Thread

[Teutonicknight]

You know, I'm glad Makoto's not that stupid. Besides, I don't really entirely hate Ragna, I'd rather fight him over quite a few other people, and at least his playstyle is somewhat linear. And I think the only true bs to his Ex incarnation is that he has power and speed with top quality defense, whereas Makoto has a lot of the worst crap in the game, and has some of the most unreliable combos and moves. Top that off with the shortest range in the game.

Btw, good luck getting out of a corner against Ragna, this scenario is Makoto's worst nightmare. I have not found any effective way to get out of a corner with her against Ragna. If you don't have a burst, you're very screwed.

[Bibiquadium]

I don't get what's hard about leaving the corner against Ragna.

[Teutonicknight]

Pretty much everything. All of his moves can literally lock you down. If you try jumping, he can just press D, and if you block, you are back in the corner, try DPing, he can outprioritize it with something else or DP you back.

What would you recommend in the corner against Ragna?

[Errol]

IB deadspike and poke him out.

[Teutonicknight]

I knew that, but what if he is not using Deadspike at all, and is just patiently guessing you with pokes?

[Kenrou.Horo]

What's fun about fighting ragna is bursting out of the corner only for him to OHKO you with a BK combo :V Watching me bounce around the screen is pretty entertaining.

Are you guys actually able to reliably IB online? I'm too scared to even try xD

[Bibiquadium]

I found the best solution by not netplaying nor ever playing on a HDTV or monitors that has more than the 1/4th of a frame in input lag.

[Teutonicknight]

I can instant block online, but yeah, the timing is a good deal different from offline. And with the risk involved, I can see why you'd be scared, because by the time I was almost used to it, it mainly just got me hit most of the time. It's usually better to use instant blocking on blockstrings after the first normal block, that way you're at least blocking actively.

Now, when you can time every combo with every character perfectly during lag, you've been playing way too long, lol.

Heck, if you can use Makoto effectively online, you've been playing too long, or you have satelite, wired, reinforced connection.

Edited August 27, 2013 by Teutonicknight

[Kenrou.Horo]

I found the best solution by not netplaying nor ever playing on a HDTV or monitors that has more than the 1/4th of a frame in input lag.

Yippee I'm doing both + having a bar of dead pixels covering the right side of the screen for added corner fun. :D

I can instant block online, but yeah, the timing is a good deal different from offline. And with the risk involved, I can see why you'd be scared, because by the time I was almost used to it, it mainly just got me hit most of the time. It's usually better to use instant blocking on blockstrings after the first normal block, that way you're at least blocking actively.

Now, when you can time every combo with every character perfectly during lag, you've been playing way too long, lol.

Heck, if you can use Makoto effectively online, you've been playing too long, or you have satelite, wired, reinforced connection.

Learning how to IB is on my to-do list, but I've got so much things to get down pat before it lol.

I've just come to accept that its 80% likely that'll I'll drop the combo online :V I'm even more used to the drive timings during lag than offline lol.

Edited August 27, 2013 by Kenrou.Horo

[Teutonicknight]

I found the best solution by not netplaying nor ever playing on a HDTV or monitors that has more than the 1/4th of a frame in input lag.

AH, so I was right about HDTV's affecting the damn timing. I thought it was just me for a second.

[Kenrou.Horo]

Also, fuck Valk.

[Bibiquadium]

Get ready to hate him more in CP

[Kenrou.Horo]

;~;

y u do dis

What changed for him in CP anyway?

[Kiba]

That information is Here.

[Teutonicknight]

I never liked Valk much. The sole reason he's such a threat in CP is because of his mixups alone.

He got nerfed where it actually made him less stupid, and the buffs didn't really do a whole heck of a lot to change him, save for a few of them.

[Errol]

i almost always land 214accc combos on netplay even during fairly crappy connections. different if I haven't been playing makoto for a while, but it's just a matter of familiarity. this is different from say PF 3 enders, which have to be timed visually down to a 2 frame window.

[Teutonicknight]

Makoto's style is easy enough to remember to where you can quit playing her for a few years, and re-learn her in just 30 minutes.

One you're down with the timing all over again, the rest just melts into place.

[Dark Ranger88]

That doesn't seem like a legitimate thing to do. You seem very fond on High Risk / Small Reward things.

Yes I admit that it's totally gimmicky, but you're only supposed to use it in a specific situation with proper yomi.

If you jump over a D chain some Hazamas instinctively cancel the chain and then do 214D. If they see you airdash they do the flash kick; if you land they do stuff like falling fang or stance cancel. If you know the guy you're playing against does this, because you've downloaded him or whatever, then you can prey on his instincts to get a free combo and momentum. It's all about being in your opponent's head and knowing his thought proccess.

There are other things like this that exploit the reactions that your opponent has hard wired into themselves. Ragnas doing 2A 66D or Hakus doing hop Hotaru in their pressure, because their opponent is good at teching throws with B+C. Or throw reject miss setups in general. Hell, DPing is high risk/small reward, but even the best Japanese players still do it.

What? You mean you guys have never set up a comet cannon and then dash 2B'd Tager out of a sledgehammer? He sees a projectile. His instincts say, "Sledge that shit." You say, "I don't think so."

Anyways, there isn't just ONE right way to play a character or even a matchup. There are lots of different things that will work if you know how & when to use them.

Also: Getting in on Hazama or Lambda isn't a small reward at all, it's the point of the whole matchup.

[Bibiquadium]

I always orb 66 2B on Tagers that pointlessly sledges. Because its a very small risk. But the other things are meant to be used very occasionaly as its a very unsafe risk agaisnt players who acts on reaction and not on prediction. A few a few tricks in my pockets as well, like DP canceling into 6A or 2A starter into Mars Chopper reset or 6C orb resets in the corner etc etc, but I try not to abuse them to catch people by surprise.

[Dark Ranger88]

You seem very fond on High Risk / Small Reward things.

I made an entire thread dedicated to gimmicks.

[Bibiquadium]

I saw it, was surprised to see many of my stuff there, like full screen astral into mixups and all.

[Dark Ranger88]

I am tempted to put the Mars Chopper and orb resets you just listed in there. Not that it matters with Extend almost over.

[Dark Ranger88]

IB 5A D Nails.

Works every time.

I'm sorry guys, but this does not work every time. There are many instances where j.B/5A/2A after the nails will be airtight (and trying to IB 5A will just open up a gap and get you counter hit). You can only IB 5A if they are doing it from full screen, but good Bangs never do this. Good Bangs use the A nail to snipe from afar and only do the D nails at close or medium range. I have even gone in and tested this and IB 5A doesn't work against mid/close range nails.

[Bibiquadium]

It does, IB 5A/DP from TK and 6A from too far.

[Dark Ranger88]

..........Okayyyyyyyyy????.........

On a completely unrelated note I was messing around in training mode and found out that you can cancel the first few startup frames of 2A into Corona Upper.

I don't know if this is common knowledge or not, but against Bang and Valk you can input 2A just before they recover from a neutral/emergency tech:

If they do any kind of normal attack or throw 2A hits them out of it (and lets you block Bang's drive),

If they did their reversal you can input Corona during the superflash and clash into whatever move you want,

If they backdash you recover in time to hit them

If they gold burst, you block it.

The only thing that beats it is jumping.