[CSE] μ12: War Room - Tactics of Terror v1000

[severin]

don't forget litchi 2C~B

[C0R]

If anyone else wants to experiment with this; At the end of µ's combos, example being the corner throw combo:

(4)bc > 6a > :6b > 6a > j.2c > j.5d > 2b > 6a > :2c > sj.2c

you can tack on an extension, this works on just about EVERY bnb:

... sj.2c > j.xd > 662b > 5b > 6a > ...

From this point you can go into several different things.

Airthrow

j.a xxx Airthrow

8sj.c > j.2c (hits on all air tech directions, can potentially be double jumped over after tech)

j.c > 7:j.2c (meaty on all air tech directions, cannot be double jumped over after tech)

Depending on how you time your airthrow, the grab break leaves your opponent in the air above quite a few steins, one of which is firing; as well as within range of j.c, which is nearly incontestable at that range. The j.c can be stein and special canceled with the firing stein for coverage. You can alternatively land and recover with them in stein blockstun. This allows you to pressure your opponent in a more versatile manner, removing ground options as they are in an airborne state. Mixing up your pressure after the throw break can lead to some very strong mixups.

If you opt for the j.2c route, the meaty j.2c has great potential to FC people over-inputting airtech. It also covers no-tech by re-grounding your opponent under all your steins and providing you with several great options due to the steincount, such as guardcrush setups. On block, j.2c can be special canceled into j.236a, which follows the opponent back down to the ground, keeping them in blockstun as you recover from habaya, allowing you to airdash at them and hit them with an air blockstring/throw setup. If you opt for air pressure, you can mix them up as they hit the ground.

There are a few more options, I'll cover this air oki in my next stream.

[YukiBlue]

I'd really hate to fight you C0R.

[Zeromus_X]

It's nice that that combo part got put to some use. I'll have to start messing around with those resets.

[C0R]

I need to experiment with them, as they're certainly more applicable against characters without a huge number of fast long air pokes, prime example being Tager/Hazama/Tsubaki.

[Cryingvoid]

Ironically, lately I have also been thinking about her air oki variations... I tend to end the needed combo this way:

...j.2C > 3C > SoD > (66) 6A >

And then, just like C0R said, air grab, j.C, j.2C (risky one though rewarding). AND I guess one of the safest and nicest ways of air oki may be the charge SoD! It will profit on any tech action the opp. takes, and it will be greatly profitable even on block obviously.

Guys, can you remind me of the optimal combo off one bomb?

[pochp]

haven't found anything better yet http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoCLTItUeyM#t=10m45

I'm sticking to ground oki lately, mostly j.2c j.5[d] xx j.236a into charge lasers xN/guard crush (or I end up not holding [d] long enough, so something fails and the other guy gets out ).

[Cryingvoid]

Oh, sorry, I meant corner bomb, pochp. Is there anything nice?

Well, in terms of oki reasoning I find myself coming to a conclusion that the best way all in all, is to confirm a full combo off some normal. Without laser or bomb or anything in it. So I'd say, I use your j.6[D] > 2b > 6b > ]D[ > stuff... -oki/blockstring. So when the opponent respects your corner oki might, he'll block your first 6B and the laser, giving you safe room for further mixups. Where I'd go with something like 6B (1 hit blocked) > RC > 2B > 5C... for 5Kay this mixup (6B (1 hit blocked) > RC > 2B) really shatters even most solid blockers. USE IT, EVERYONE!

Edited April 19, 2012 by Cryingvoid

[C0R]

Oh, sorry, I meant corner bomb, pochp. Is there anything nice?

Well, in terms of oki reasoning I find myself coming to a conclusion that the best way all in all, is to confirm a full combo off some normal. Without laser or bomb or anything. So I'd say, I use your j.6[D] > 2b > 6b > ]D[ > stuff... -oki/blockstring. So when the opponent respects your corner oki might, he'll block your first 6B and the laser, giving you safe room for further mixups. Where I'd go with something like 6B (1 hit blocked) > RC > 2B > 5C... for 5Kay this mixup (6B (1 hit blocked) > RC > 2B) really shutters even most solid blockers. USE IT, EVERYONE!

Pochp's video has a good corner bomb combo directly after the midscreen one, at 10:59

[Cryingvoid]

Pochp's video has a good corner bomb combo directly after the midscreen one, at 10:59

Oh, that's right! Great stuff I've been looking for. And optimal corner ground throw one? Gotta gather small things together, you see...

[pochp]

Well, in terms of oki reasoning I find myself coming to a conclusion that the best way all in all, is to confirm a full combo off some normal. Without laser or bomb or anything in it. So I'd say, I use your j.6[D] > 2b > 6b > ]D[ > stuff... -oki/blockstring. So when the opponent respects your corner oki might, he'll block your first 6B and the laser, giving you safe room for further mixups. Where I'd go with something like 6B (1 hit blocked) > RC > 2B > 5C... for 5Kay this mixup (6B (1 hit blocked) > RC > 2B) really shatters even most solid blockers. USE IT, EVERYONE!

...or you could do j.6[d] 2a 6b ]d[ 6b rc 2b... the two 6Bs being gapless or almost depending on the timing... 6b RC 2b doesn't mean you can't use lasers. I've kinda overused 6b rc 2b lol, I need to mix it up with 6b (1) RC 6b if I want to hit the local guys now. On the other had, guard crush is... unblockable http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agk5UuSUlr8#t=10m4s

Oh, that's right! Great stuff I've been looking for. And optimal corner ground throw one? Gotta gather small things together, you see...

I do this : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoCLTItUeyM#t=5m28m recently I've been experimenting with 6c 5d DP enders, weird situation occurs. You might want to watch the whole video at some point lol. It's missing a few character specific 2b 6a 6c 5d 214d 6c enders, and the new highloop :j.5d instead of j.6d that I only learned of after recording. 6c combos aren't the best either, but yeah rest should be optimal or at least practical.

[Cryingvoid]

On the other had, guard crush is... unblockable

Yeah, surely, it is very evil when executed. But I'm afraid of the holes in between stuff. Left alone decent reaction players, there are a lot of mere mashers, who'll be able to DP the hell out of it, won't they? Though, I really should start using it too.

You might want to watch the whole video at some point lol

Sure, I watched it when you posted, and updated some of my stuff right away ) Just didn't feel like bothering with optimizing minor stuff like 1 bomb or corner throw. My bad )

and the new highloop :j.5d instead of j.6d that I only learned of after recording.

Yeah, yeah, yeah! That's what we have missed overall here! Quite the topic, since it is much more convenient for both yata supers, and oki stuff (BOTH bomb and totsuka setups, since the strongest totsuka is - 1st bomb near, 2nd bomb - far). But I find it somehow hard to set the stein before landing... it works not all the times, or else, I time it bad. Is there any specifics? Also it is herd to set consistently when constantly changing from online to offline matches, since you lose the right timing... any hints?

[C0R]

Yeah, surely, it is very evil when executed. But I'm afraid of the holes in between stuff. Left alone decent reaction players, there are a lot of mere mashers, who'll be able to DP the hell out of it, won't they? Though, I really should start using it too.

Sure, I watched it when you posted, and updated some of my stuff right away ) Just didn't feel like bothering with optimizing minor stuff like 1 bomb or corner throw. My bad )

Yeah, yeah, yeah! That's what we have missed overall here! Quite the topic, since it is much more convenient for both yata supers, and oki stuff (BOTH bomb and totsuka setups, since the strongest totsuka is - 1st bomb near, 2nd bomb - far). But I find it somehow hard to set the stein before landing... it works not all the times, or else, I time it bad. Is there any specifics? Also it is herd to set consistently when constantly changing from online to offline matches, since you lose the right timing... any hints?

Set it as low as possible to the ground, and when you do 5c > 2c, late chain the 2c so it hits as late as you can manage.

[Cryingvoid]

C0R, in your opinion, is the move worth the drop risk generally?

[C0R]

It's worth practicing until you've completely memorized the timing.

If you're unsure, do j.6d.

If you're really unsure, just do whatever you KNOW will work.

[pochp]

6b sod 6a 5c 2c j.c j.2c j.:5d 2b 5c 2c j.2c is pretty consistent, and a better overhead combo than triple j.2c.

in other cases ...sod 6a 6b 5c 2c neutral jump j.c j.2c :j.5d... makes it more consistent.

The setup I posted beats most 2a mashing and has really ambiguous blockstun and frametraps due to lasers. More often than not I'll catch a few jump out attempts. I'm trying to get one that is DP safe at the beginning (like having a 236a on them right off the bat).

[Cryingvoid]

Yeah, it would be a great option ) most of the times I really want opp just to block, but he does stuff and I am forced to reset him. They just don't learn.

[Zeromus_X]

It looks like the hitboxes for BBCSEX were recently released. Compare Mu's CS2 jB to CSEX:

CS2:

CSEX:

Also, comparing frame data from Mu's CS2 Astral to CSEX, it looks like it got some more active frames. It definitely feels easier to combo after a high 6C now, for example.

Edited April 28, 2012 by Zeromus_X

[Cryingvoid]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFj_9MkbE50&feature=player_embedded

10:05 Ecchi.Ecchi is demonstrating some awesome optimized corner throw combo. Not sure if it is new to our boards, though... whatever.

UPD: guys, btw, any optimal GC combos midscreen? I find myself doing full charge SOD tech traps more often, but when GC occurs I find myself at loss for buttons 3_3 and just B'n'B the hell out of it like stupid fool! *_*

Edited April 29, 2012 by Cryingvoid

[Zeromus_X]

I'm pretty sure you can do Guardcrush > Bomb > some corner carry stuff midscreen. Close enough to the corner, you can Guardcrush > Gold Burst > 2C > 5C > 6C > SoD (charge) > blahblahblah for all the damage. Or just Guardcrush > 6C > SoD (charge) > 6B > high, mid, low loops > supers

[pochp]

C0R had come up with a 6d 236d 3c ]d[ kind of combo. I had actually completely forgotten about it. Time to hit the lab.

And wow yeah that hitbox change explains why crossups are more effective now :O I didn't know it went that high though, time to try it as air to air when under the opponent.

[C0R]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFj_9MkbE50&feature=player_embedded

10:05 Ecchi.Ecchi is demonstrating some awesome optimized corner throw combo. Not sure if it is new to our boards, though... whatever.

UPD: guys, btw, any optimal GC combos midscreen? I find myself doing full charge SOD tech traps more often, but when GC occurs I find myself at loss for buttons 3_3 and just B'n'B the hell out of it like stupid fool! *_*

That's H.H.

If you're talking about the 2c 6c SoD combo, yeah it's a pretty good one.

If you've got good timing you can link level 4 sod > dash 2b midscreen from gc.

[Cryingvoid]

Posh, yeah, yeah, something like that.

I'm pretty much sure there was something with charged laser off midscreen GC. SOD tech traps work surprisingly well, to the extend your opponent forgetting to barrier block it.

C0R, is lever 4 path goes RC'less? I remember stuff from CS1 when it required you to RC in such combos.

[pochp]

Hm new throw combo is nice, sad it doesnt leave a stein on the opponent for guardcrush

So after some testing, I really can't find a way to get 3c laser combos to break 4k meterless when you have the other options available. Here's what I found, by far the most reliable and damaging is just dash 5c SoD, the trick is not to dash too early after SoD for 6b to juggle correctly.

from starting positions

gc dash 5d 214d dash 6b 5c 6c sod 6a j.2c j.d 2b 5c 2c j.2c (4061)

gc dash 5d 214d dash 6b 5c 6c sod high mid loops (4417)

gc dash 4d 6c dash 214d 6b (2) 5c SoD midloop (4035)

gc dash SoD (4) dashhhhhh 2b high mid lowloop (4733)

gc dashhhhh 5c SoD 6a 6b high mid low loops (5287)

too far from corner, but not close enough to just jump over 5c SoD

gc 6d 236d dash 3c j.b j.c :j.2c 2b 6a 6c habacan 2b 5c 6c 5d 214d 6c 5d SoD (3242, 48 heat, maybe a bit of swag?)

gc 5d 214d 6b dash 5c 2c j.c j.2c 2b 5c 6c 5d SoD (3647, 39 heat)

gc 4d 6c 214d dash 6b dash 5c 2c j.c j.2c 2b 5c 6c 5d SoD (3943, 43 heat, less stable)

Might as well post these new setups, I've been using them for a bit of time now and they're pretty good

after midscreen 6c... 5[d] 236a dash 6d 236d. lots of blockstun, lasers combo, 236a combos into ]d[ on some jumpouts, so more time to set up anyways.

corner, after a midloop, (j.2c) j.5[d]xxj.236a small dash 2b 5[d]xx SoD (3) small dash 2b 5d 214d. Not that much riskier than other setups, but meterless 4-5 primers.

[Cryingvoid]

Hm new throw combo is nice, sad it doesnt leave a stein on the opponent for guardcrush

hm... well, it actually does, doesn't it? Only one stein though. He sets a charged one after the last j.2c. It also seems the D.S.E. is possible. I'd prefer going for 6D charge > stuff most of the times. It actually may be safer since it gives them less of opportunity to counter assault. And those familiar to Mu's pressure do CA much when cornered :3