Sol vs Potemkin

[Spirit Juice]

I deleted it because it doesn't have anything to do with Sol vs Potemkin. Irrelevant posts will get deleted. EDIT: Undeleted the post, but just keep on topic, guys. This topic is specifically about Sol vs Potemkin, not Slashback mechanics and general game mechanics.

[Brent-quest]

Yeah, Potemkin can be really fun to combo. IAD j.D SW combos are flashy and not all that hard on him. When you say the "original" version I assume you mean the original JP release? Because obviously there were many glitches in it and was far from arcade perfect... Don't know if it makes much sense to call the bugged version original, but w/e.

[Spirit Juice]

For future discussion, let's try to not refer to any "original JP console" release combos since they're not exactly important anymore; no one plays the bugged Japanese version anymore.

[Hideki]

Arc systems made it so that it is literally impossible to slashback for about 10 frames on wakeup to prevent the gayness known as 3S wakeup parry. you should be grateful that it cannot be done. there's a reason you can't find it happen in any video

The 3S parry system (where you can actually wakeup parry) ads more depth to the game.

And since Slashbacks are harder to do (weird input + tight timing), I´ll love to see wakeup SB's on AC.

If the game allows you to wake up and coutner poke immediatly with a parry, you can make your mindgames even stronger. Throws/Command throws on okizemes will become a really powerful tool.

It´s just my opinion, but that system allows a better risk/reward situations.

[Brent-quest]

Holy crap. Just got done with a weekend hanging with some of the best out there. I also got in tons of play with THE PROFESSOR of Potemkin himself, the man with a Ph.D in all of Potemkin's moves, Raekwon187, aka Isaac. I will do a big write up some time soon. HOLY SHIT POT IS SCARY.

[Brent-quest]

LOL apparently I said I'd do a write up... I just need to make sure I don't lose to JWong at SBIII I play him first round...

[ssj2jeff]

well i get the wonderful opportunity of fighting a potemkin player on a weekly (when i drive 55.44 miles to play according to mapquest) and another potemkin player on a daily bases . After reading most of this thread, the only thing i really got out of it was riot stomp works well against slide head(which was really helpful ) and a bunch of whining. So I thought I'd give a shot at dissecting this match up, and going through how I approach the match up.

Match up Statistics: I'm not sure what the Japanese rate the match up. I see a lot of people really don't like the match and think it's almost 6:4 pot. I'd give it 5.5:4.5.

Openers: Right off the start of the match it's a guessing game. If you want to risk opening the match with anything, you can 5.S>2.S which will beat hammer fall and a lot of his pokes but slide head and forward mega fist will beat it. If you're feeling like a psychic and know he's gonna mega fist you can j.p>j.S>ji>j.HS>CLSW it. safest choice is to just jump back but that can get boring.

Okizeme: I have a bad habbit of doing OTG 2.k>5.S gunflame frc> 50/50 mix with empty jump or late air dash vs pot to avoid pots bullshit wake ups.

another option thats seems to have worked for me is when i got him backed in the corner on the floor, I run towards his body and as he wakes up i jump forward to bait his wake ups. If he wake up pot buster or back dash i can punish it with a falling j.D> to corner combo(i enjoy kusoru inspired br>frc j.d combos ). if he does nothing then i do a meat j.S/j.p/j.HS(which can be mixed up with WT) or a late air dash j.s>j.hs>land>5kand pray to god i don't get pot bustered (flashmetroid tends to instant block my air dash j.s>j.HS when he plays pot, in which case it can get ugly ). It really depends on the player and their tendencies. The pots i face are pretty wake up happy so i find creative ways to bait them.

You can still attempt the basic oki mix up just be wary of Potemkins wake ups. I actually do meaty 2.k>2.HS/WT mix ups sometimes just because we go for so many matches where i play it safe just to be unpredictable. I wouldn't suggest doing that against a pot you never played before though.

Punishes: Slide heads can be riot stomped on reaction pretty often. occasionally I VV pot buster/anti mix ups from hammer fall breaks, I don't do it very often though because it can easily be baited. i may do it purely to regain moment.

a blocked non FRC/RCed hammer fall can be punished with a dash up 5.k>combo of your choice.

Potemkins 5HS has a lot of recover on whiff. If you jump as he throws it out, you're free to air dash in and punish with j.s>j.d/j.s > combo.

Counters: HS can cleanly counter with a lot of pots pokes as well as slide head from max distance as long as you through it out before pot throws out his pokes. If he hammer fall it you can 2.D or jump and you should be ok most of the time if you react fast enough.

when on the offense i like to 2.P (not deep) followed by a late 2.D to try and bait a counter hit.

If the Potemkin you play against likes poke with 2.S you can easily 2.D under that for a free counter hit as long as you know it's coming. After a air reset situation when pot recovers from far my friend has a habit of throwing out a 2.S after he lands to try and vacuum me in while i dash at him so i just 2.D under it.

Anti airing: 5k and j.p usually get the job done. just know when to throw it out at what distances and when to just block. pots j.S and j.HS are pretty nasty.

Also pots j.D(i like to call it "the booty butt") beats just about all of your anti airs and clashes with VV . The pots i play like to do it after teching from the air to throw you out of your groove. just don't anti air it. I like to instant block it and then 5k>2HS>GV if the j.D was deep. I'm pretty sure you can punish it after instant blocking. i wish i had frame data to verify who's favor it's in after being instant blocked but i couldn't find anything on j.D. If you're far from them as they tech, you can throw out a gunflame and let them fall on it and possibly land a counter hit gunflame to hotness.

Zoning: I tend to play the match a very patient(aka turtlish) kinda just jumping around seeing if potemkin throws out anything to give me an opportunity to get in. I find much success approaching pot from the air. Be very wary pots 2.p can be pretty nasty. usually i find an opening when jump just as he throws out a poke then I can attempt to punish the whiff accordingly. here are some situational attempts of getting in i usually try. here are some of my zoning gimmicks.

I can usually do silly jumping forward j.p air dash back zoning shenanigans to see if he does anything which sometimes can pay off. For instance, if I jump forward just as he slide heads I'm guaranteed to land a falling j.d which gives me a nice combo or a free knock down and a chance to go on the offense. If he does nothing or tries to anti air, I air dash back and we're back at the drawing board. Some times the pot play likes to do something like j.S/j.HS. In which case after i air dash back i can do a falling j.d or j.HS and i may get lucky and it connects.

Another little zoning shenanigan i like to do would be just just neutral j.p to see if he does anything. if he throws out a 5.HS it's a free air-dash j.S>j.HS>combo or if you like to be fancy air-dash j.S>j.D>CLSW(it has to be a bit deeper).If he does a slide head you can air-dash in as well but beware if you're too late he can back dash or 2.P you.

I'm not a big fan of approaching pot on the ground cause his pokes has so much reach and if he lands a counter hit he can combo to slide head. on the ground from max distance i may throw out a HS to try and get a counter hit>iad. don't iad unless the HS hits on counter or else it's a free 2.p counter hit combo for pot. also random slide heads can be annoying.

If you got meter you can always dash up VV>RC whatever he throws out. just watch out for head slide in which case you can VV with RC and beat it pretty cleanly as long as you execute it quick enough.

Their game plan: IMO Potemkins goal is to force mistakes on your part. If you're in reset situation, his objective is to offensively get as is yours; however, if you're on the offense then he's playing patient waiting for the opportunity to strike. The other situation is when pot lands his pot buster/anti-air and scores the knock. In this case the pot player gets to play his guessing games, but he has 1 more variable in the game VV. I think the majority of the match the pot is dealing with situation number, but just because it looks like sol is rushing pot down it doesn't mean anything if he's not breaking his defense.

Strategy: see Zoning. pretty much the Zoning plan is my strategy. once you get in it's a matter of just know when it's time to back and not try to force pressure. always be cautious even if it seems like your winning round. If you both are at 50% health just remember all it takes is pot 1 good pot buster to close the deal and put you down to a spec of health while you still have a long way to go.

Char specific details: I'm pretty sure everyone knows their character specific combos. only real note worthy thing is off wild throw you can do like 4 or so j.d>CLSW.

thats about it. I wasn't intending to write up this but i thought i might as well contribute something since i play pot so damn much and there weren't much specifics of the match up written yet. If you're wondering, i think my play style and handling of this match closely resembles kishitaka in this vid. http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=IT19cMDAJBM . Of course the caliber of the potemkins he face are much higher than what i face (no hate to my homies). if you have any comments/critisms or anything to add please post. I'd still like to get be more confident in this match up myself.

hopefully you were able to get something out of this.

[xomhollamox]

if you have any comments/critisms or anything to add please post.

um ...fuck u?!?

good strat man well written. Ill def try to improve a lot more while playing against you.

IMO biggest problems of new pots are uncontrolled slideheads=ftl ill reduce that more and control your air better. or we jst play too much

[Eaode]

how do you go into SW loops from BR RC? I've tried 2D BR RC -> SW. I've tried j.S,j.H, even crap like j.K, but I can't seem to CLSW Pot from a BR RC...<_>;

[Brent-quest]

BR RC Air Dash > j.D CLSW :D

[Eaode]

BR RC Air Dash > j.D CLSW :D

Thanks! I never would have thought of that :D

Actually I just found out that j.K -> CLSW works if you do it fast enough, but this is so much cooler xD

[A.X.I.S.]

ugh this fight could be some trouble...i guess 2 cents could help...

He's POTEMKIN

this guy is overall trouble for any and everyone...sadly for sol he's one of the most restricting jerks, and he will butt rape you way more effectively then you can him ouch!

but no fear its many things you can do to pot to make him shut up, sit down, and learn something new..here's a few things i do.

spacing

this is a annoying thing to do, yes staying out of potemkins face, just about every special move you do gets a penalty of potemkin sodomy, how do you avoid it? 5S! that's like good enough range, you can pretty much eat anything he wanna toss at you and if he tries something funny you can either bail or VV punish him, reaction VV's saves my ass on occasion, here's it saves you.

man he's huge and stupid?

you think? we all know potemkin loves to hit the floor hard for fun, lets make him eat some riot stomp, it hurts come with a CH (you can correct me if you'd like...) and lets you do all sorts of rape on him, he wants it look he's smiling?

TENSION TO INFINITY!!

my first priority in this fight is for that tension to spot up as fast as possible, i always like to fish for a gunflame feint when i get the chance. i like 5S>5H.S>GFF, push me back to safety, and gives me time to react if he wants a piece, do it a few times and make him say hello to a br>rc combo hell while your at it why not do a VV>rc combo...his ass is big enough.

dont be stupid!!

stay away from the air or don't be predictable, he has so many things he wants to do to you, its like if a stranger offers you candy don't take it, i don't care how yummy that hersey taste! he's gonna grab you, and make you go boom and if he doesn't finish the move on you then he might just have all sorts of pressure for you speaking of pressure...

NO MY MANGINITYi NOO!!

no shit you got into potemkin pressure, expect some big things heading your way.. (yes everything!) he's gonna go to town on you and thats something a sol player like myself has to say, potemkin is like a damn wind up toy once he starts its never stops, and the sad part, if you fall in the corner then he's gonna do terrible things including that fb pot buster...wouldnt that be a shame, so here's what i do...

calm down, and think you got options, just so so few, you can VV if you see a slidehead coming and dont forget to D.A his ass if you got the tension, I.Bing him helps too, but all the best counters i figured was a VV...such a shame though...<rant=looseless?

well thats all i got...hope its useful even though it might be useless, i dont get much potemkin players yet alone players at all...but i had to contribute something even if its 2% useful give it a shot? if not harrass and criticize me im learning as i go..had the game for little over a year, and after a few weeks from this site i learned alot, and thanks to you maniac mode is just easy...hope my tips help...ssj2jeff's approach helped so much.

[Raijin_CFN]

FUCK riot stomping slidehead. If you time BB so that you're jumping as his head is falling you can hit Pot every time from just about anywhere on the screen. run up to extend your combo or combo into grand viper for a half life combo.

[A.X.I.S.]

FUCK riot stomping slidehead. If you time BB so that you're jumping as his head is falling you can hit Pot every time from just about anywhere on the screen. run up to extend your combo or combo into grand viper for a half life combo.

its all about distance and tension for me, if potemkin is close im better off 2ding and sw looping, if i cant afford the tension i'd just rt him, because either way i rather keep him at 5s max distance, and yeah bbing his slidehead is fun, it just doesnt work for me at close range, i rather just rt him and get some distance.

so i guess i could say, to each his own. rting works better for me in the way i play this match up, but the bb idea is great too i just rarely catch him with it, hell when a slide head comes i catch myself iading and j.s>j.d>br>5k>j.s>sw...sadly i dont always CL thus the sw instead....i rather do your idea instead. thanks for the advice.

[Tsak]

FUCK riot stomping slidehead. If you time BB so that you're jumping as his head is falling you can hit Pot every time from just about anywhere on the screen. run up to extend your combo or combo into grand viper for a half life combo.

fuck

if your going for BB

go for BB loops

PRO

[Raijin_CFN]

I love BBing slidehead. It's a big "Fuck you" to Pot and effectively eliminates his long range game.

[A.X.I.S.]

I love BBing slidehead. It's a big "Fuck you" to Pot and effectively eliminates his long range game.

behold the universal truth!

[ZéroGén]

lmao .you aint seen Sol's Unknown Combos, ..,,,called Bizzare-bo's.... :psyduck:

[Raijin_CFN]

For those of you who aren't confident in your ability to run up and continue your BB combo midscreen you must remember that on pot you can chain BBs. Just hit another BB as soon as you land from the first and you should be in the corner by then. Once you run up in the corner follow up with c.s 2h jc jh (after second hit) SW. It doesn't look like it should be a clean hit but with potemkin you don't always have to be at waist height. Ovary punches count too.

[Nives]

only issue with using BB to try and counter slidehead is that you have to guess, and against solid players. well, there should be more consistency than guessing. also if it does not hit at absolutely the tip, pot can IB -> potbuster you, or backdash potbuster. it isnt hard to IB bandit bringer, i mean it starts up in 32 frames. if you land the bandit bringer, thats cool and all, but i dont think the reward is equal or really worth it. i rather d.5H or GF -> FRC -> jump within the distance where he cant slidehead. even if he doesn't slidehead, i have options.

[Raijin_CFN]

He can't block it. You can do it on reaction, even with a lot of slack for timing. That and 6k because those are the only things he would throw out from that distance. But I will take what you said into consideration. You can never have too many options.

[Nives]

okay correcting my statement. i personally don't think i can react to it and here is why: -- assuming you react to it, in the situation with just execution time vs execution time, the latest you can hit slidehead with bandit bringer is 18 frames into the move. BB is 32 frames execution, airborne on the 9th frame. any later than 18 frames, and he can block it, and BB will only hit on its recovery. if you execute on exactly the 18th frame though, then because u are airborne on the 9th frame. u will get knocked down since its 27 frames into slidehead before your safe. that is no good. so you actually have to execute it on the 13th frame at latest. i think 13 frames is a pretty big window, but the fact of the matter is you dont necessarily know when he is going to do slidehead, and then you have to look for it. also it is 13 frames for you to see it, then input bandit bringer. i don't input quarter circles in 1 frame. i also don't consistently react to 13 frame moves. 5H is also an 11 frame window (22 frame execution for slidehead - 11 frames for 5H's execution), but I can hit a button much faster than i can input a direction, also i can process hitting a button to react to something much faster than inputting as a reaction. median reaction time from eye to finger is 216 milliseconds, 13 frames is 215 milliseconds. it is possible for people to hit under 100 ms time to react to something, but that is in the 0.01 percentile i believe. less than that. now say your reaction time is the median, then you have 1 frame to input BB. if your reaction time is faster than 100 ms, then that means you reacted to the move in 6 frames, which is a good deal under the 13 frames, and have a 7 frame window to execute. -- this is a lot of math on paper, so maybe people can shine some light on their own experience. from my experience, i don't react to slidehead like that, and just feel as though it isnt the best option. i rather counter with 5H, airdash, or run in on him during his recovery. what do you think?

[VR-Raiden]

Personally, I've been taking the easy way out (doing Riot Stamp) every time cause I didn't know 5H could hit him out of it. I will have to try that. but whenever I try BB its always too late and Slide Head hits me before I'm airborne. I just don't react fast enough

[Nives]

i think its do-able, but pretty much has to be the only thing your looking for (while buffering in the motions). dont necessarily think the reward is all that great. BB doesn't scale especially well or anything. i personally just dont like riot stomp as a move in general. yields more problems than solutions, but thats a personal opinion. that does work. i briefly glanced over the previous posts, but pretty much. sol likes being close, pot likes people being close. pot has a better inside game. most of the match should be played at mid-screen, though i think sol has to play riskier than pot has to, which makes it more difficult to play out.

[Raijin_CFN]

Damn. I like those numbers. You are attempting to hit pot in the back of the head as he's standing back up, right? Cause he can't block during then and that's always when I catch him. It's as his head's about to hit the ground that I'm taking off the ground with BB.