AC+R: Dizzy Changes

[Horokei]

FB Bubble:

http://ru.twitch.tv/psyblade/b/323165907

watch at 52:40

[Kurokun]

That was like one time out of however many Dizzy players that were featured on the 2nd loketest stream, and it was never seen again, lol.

It does give me some ideas for setups though.

[Nehle]

FB Bubble:

http://ru.twitch.tv/psyblade/b/323165907

watch at 52:40

autopop! yay!!

damn, I'm just gonna dump all my tension on fb bubbles if they keep them that way

[excelence]

WAT? ... FB bubble auto explode?

[Kurokun]

In AC, I sometimes used FB Bubble with summons for delay explosion setups and for zoning with the large explosion range.

Now, FB Bubble pretty much forces the opponent to approach and attack Dizzy to disarm it, which could lead to them getting punished for being somewhat reckless. Unless, Dizzy happens to pop the bubble first before it explodes...

FB Bubble:

To pop or auto-explode?

That is the question.

[Kurokun]

The info about the 2nd Loketest Change List translation and observations stuffs from the 2nd Loketest stream are also on the first page (second post) of this thread, for organization and convenience.

[zaeris]

2d is still going to make me sad, its range is still short, its not going to make 5hs 2d fantastic by any means when you can just do 5hs into 2d in combo, in blockstring? let see where it goes. D fish seems to be stationary as in it doesn't move forward after first input of double fish command.

bubble nerf is going to be the undoing of dizzy lol, 2d jc IAD back bubble and got punished by a chasing air dash chipp.

EDIT: I was fine about her oki and wake up game since the old fish provided enough solid mix up, maybe lacking some highs. However I was keen to see her neutral changes, besides D version Ice spike doesn't seem anything new that would improve her neutral games. FB bubble and FB daggger are nice additional but they are meter option, I can still use imperial ray to set up my neutral safe fish summon. Lol, I still want to see imperial ray not being interrupted, at least trade and continues its active frames and not stop when she gets hit.

Edited July 4, 2012 by zaeris

[Nehle]

Re: That untranslated jap part about follow-up. When watching the videos, it didn't seem to have more forward momentum, but rather faster startup when used as a follow-up, maybe that's what it meant..

I don't know, I'm still optimistic about +R Dizzy, even though maybe not as super hype as I was before, but still. I keep thinking about 421D, and I can't say I'm not sure where it's applicable anymore? Maybe after a block string to keep advantage?

For sure, it's going to be nice against Testament to disarm some traps? Against Eddie to kill the Shadow? That's not a lot of use cases.

FB bubble I think will be the go-to tension sink (besides ice spike FRC), but I don't like that it stays active for SO LONG.

Generally, +R dizzy will improve against characters with limited movement, and lose out against fast rush downs (millia, chipp et al), or just aggresive players.

I think she's coming out ahead though, but it's not as much as I though it would be. The new D fish is cool, but I don't see the point of it either..

[Kurokun]

Re: That untranslated jap part about follow-up. When watching the videos, it didn't seem to have more forward momentum, but rather faster startup when used as a follow-up, maybe that's what it meant..

That sounds about right and after seeing some examples of it in action, that is probably what it is.

I'll go amend the entry with that explanation.

It's kinda interesting that Scythe and Imperial Ray got no changes, whatsoever.

Watch as the next loketest has changes that affect both of those things, lol.

I wonder what the Japanese Dizzy players think about the changes so far...

[Nehle]

That sounds about right and after seeing some examples of it in action, that is probably what it is.

I'll go amend the entry with that explanation.

I ran it through google translate just now, and realized it's probably not entirely accurate, though it is correct in a sense.

"Advance of the case out of the derived distance has been reduced."

So basically, I think it means that "Will travel less forward if used as a follow-up", which of course results in shorter startup.

[Kurokun]

I ran it through google translate just now, and realized it's probably not entirely accurate, though it is correct in a sense.

"Advance of the case out of the derived distance has been reduced."

So basically, I think it means that "Will travel less forward if used as a follow-up", which of course results in shorter startup.

I went ahead and updated the entry with that explanation.

It sounds better actually.

The main thing is that we have a general idea of what the change is after seeing a visual of the follow-up Laser Fish summon in action, lol.

[zaeris]

I went ahead and updated the entry with that explanation.

It sounds better actually.

The main thing is that we have a general idea of what the change is after seeing a visual of the follow-up Laser Fish summon in action, lol.

The one thing about wall stick is it seem be anywhere on screen as long as lazer fish hits on air hit, which can set up more combo opportunity. Although it is something that requires a keen eye, since I can never hit confirm my CH ice spike into fish summon lol.

[Kurokun]

The one thing about wall stick is it seem be anywhere on screen as long as lazer fish hits on air hit, which can set up more combo opportunity. Although it is something that requires a keen eye, since I can never hit confirm my CH ice spike into fish summon lol.

If Laser Fish Summon could do full-screen blowback into wallstick (like SL's DoT and JA's Asanagi-K, which have forward momentum), that would be pretty cool.

Follow-up combo opportunity will probably depend on DI's position relative to the wall though.

[Nehle]

The one thing about wall stick is it seem be anywhere on screen as long as lazer fish hits on air hit, which can set up more combo opportunity.

I've seen it miss the wall a few times because the opponent is too far away though

[Kurokun]

I've seen it miss the wall a few times because the opponent is too far away though

I've noticed that as well in the few times that it's been used for wallstick stuff.

I wonder if the frame data for Laser Fish (on aerial hit for wallstick) has changed in AC+R?

Right now in AC it's only a Lv 2 move, whereas most other normal/special moves that cause wallstick (normally or via CH) are Lv 3 and higher, and a number of them can also miss the wall from certain ranges as well.

[zaeris]

I've seen it miss the wall a few times because the opponent is too far away though

my bad for exaggerating it lol. but it looks like a mid screen oki into wall stick is possible, I wasn't focus too much on day 2 but just how far is it possible for lazer fish to wall stick?

[Jet Set Dizzy]

Wait... so new Ice Spike isn't a FB? Lol then why is it using the D button?

[zaeris]

Wait... so new Ice Spike isn't a FB? Lol then why is it using the D button?

It just the new direction GG is heading, with the many new tools people now have they shouldn't be making new input for them beside what else would make sense ^^, HS is already the strongest button, it has got to be D being above it. I don't think 236p/k/s would make sense.

[Destin]

I'm sorry for not reading through everything, but I just want to know 2 or 3 things. I really want to play dizzy this time but these things were horrible.

Is 2D still JC?

Does her fish still have that double BS for no reason?

Does she still have air S.

As long as the second one is gone, I would be happy honestly. That was the stupidest shit ever. Made Dizzy scrub mode.

[Kurokun]

- 2D still has JC.

- 2nd Fish Summon followup input is still there.

- Dizzy still has j.2S.

Other notable info stuffs are in this post:

http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?14246-AC-R-Dizzy-Changes&p=1334971&viewfull=1#post1334971

[Destin]

- 2D still has JC.

- 2nd Fish Summon followup input is still there.

- Dizzy still has j.2S.

Other notable info stuffs are in this post:

http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?14246-AC-R-Dizzy-Changes&p=1334971&viewfull=1#post1334971

I read all that, I was just hopeful. This all makes me sad.

Edit: I have to ask, to any of you fellow dizzy players think that dizzy really needed 2 bites? Like, did you ever hit a point where you thought you didn't get enough oki from a knockdown? I used to win entire matches against everyone in one knockdown with 1 bite. Do you all just kill everyone anytime you land a sweep?

Edited July 11, 2012 by Destin

[Nehle]

I read all that, I was just hopeful. This all makes me sad.

Edit: I have to ask, to any of you fellow dizzy players think that dizzy really needed 2 bites? Like, did you ever hit a point where you thought you didn't get enough oki from a knockdown? I used to win entire matches against everyone in one knockdown with 1 bite. Do you all just kill everyone anytime you land a sweep?

It doesn't actually change that much in the oki game. You still "only" get one or two mixups, and you should capitalize on them properly.

It is, however really nice in the neutral game, if you manage to sneak a summon out, the reward is much bigger than it was in Slash, as it actually gives you a distinct advantage against most opponents. I like it, I don't feel it is "scrubby" at all. Knockdown is so strong in GG, a lot of characters can win a round from just one sweep, and getting that knockdown is your reward for winning the neutral game.

Dizzy is supposed to be good at mixups. She has a hard time as it is in neutral, she should get a good reward from winning it.

[zaeris]

I read all that, I was just hopeful. This all makes me sad.

Edit: I have to ask, to any of you fellow dizzy players think that dizzy really needed 2 bites? Like, did you ever hit a point where you thought you didn't get enough oki from a knockdown? I used to win entire matches against everyone in one knockdown with 1 bite. Do you all just kill everyone anytime you land a sweep?

that really depends on the level of competition in your area, for example when I knock down my friends slayer he will opt for a few things usually dizzy oki game is very reactable because she doesn't have a solid high mix up.

anyway...

fish oki iAD j.2s x 2, slayer can choose to IB j2s and just 5p punish dizzy attempting another AD j2s, even wrost jump cancel back dash so he has invul.

like nehle said dizzy weakness is neutral and that is where she is terrible. Venom, Axl, testament, lol most players in my area uses characters that dizzy has a hard time against. Even landed that one knockdown is quite difficult.

My scene consist of Axl, Eddie, baiken, testament, slayer, bridget, JAM, Millia and Venom. The only time I feel like I might have a good chance is vs potemkin and even that match is gay with one slide head being enough for him to win the match.

[Destin]

If eddies gets his old shadow summons, they should give me back my old fish somehow.

[Destin]

Sorry forgot to address the responses, I do t really think dizzy has that bad of a neutral game at all. 5k and 2k are amazing tools, she has very solid anti air, a great air throw, good mobility. When I did get a neutral fish SAFELY in slash, I certainly did feel a huge advantage on my opponent, I had a free decent mixup for it! I can understand someone wanting more in the AC environment, but isn't that what force breaks were for?

Dizzy has some of the best high low, and left right, and low throw mixups in the game. If they didn't give Eddie 3 unblockables (and a double low drill to prevent blocking that one), I would put her at the best mixups. Very few characters could kill in one knockdown in previous games.

My level of competition was Japan, I was knocking people out with 1 knockdown as slash dizzy. They were using every conceivable trick to get out.

I was just really curious if people felt she needed it, that's all. I don't like almost all the AC changes, and would gladly trade it away for my slash/reload sweep.