xlolxlolx Posted September 21, 2012 Posted September 21, 2012 im talking about her 2d unblockable bullshit......
luher0 Posted September 25, 2012 Posted September 25, 2012 Someone knows why some times her instant kill dont works ? Sometimes im playing against a friend that plays with chie and her persona hits more than 3 times her instant kill but dont work... Is there some tip? Tks.
Elochai Posted September 25, 2012 Posted September 25, 2012 Someone knows why some times her instant kill dont works ? Sometimes im playing against a friend that plays with chie and her persona hits more than 3 times her instant kill but dont work... Is there some tip? Tks. Elizabeth's instant kill doesn't active if the opponent is at neutral after the three hits are countered. For example, if Yukiko does 5C, but she's not pressing buttons/moving, the IK won't activate.
luher0 Posted September 25, 2012 Posted September 25, 2012 Elizabeth's instant kill doesn't active if the opponent is at neutral after the three hits are countered. For example, if Yukiko does 5C, but she's not pressing buttons/moving, the IK won't activate. Tks.Too bad, this makes her IK useless...
GBS Giovanni Posted September 25, 2012 Posted September 25, 2012 Thus why I only use it to troll in troll friendly matches. This message was sponsored by the Phoenix King.
Kaialynn Posted September 25, 2012 Posted September 25, 2012 This character...so addicting. There's just an awesome rush that you get losing almost an entire round while turtling only to get a quick read into a 4k combo into a reset into a 6k combo for the win. So much fun. Loving her. Fuck Mitsuru though. That matchup is balls.
Volvata Posted September 25, 2012 Posted September 25, 2012 (edited) Tks.Too bad, this makes her IK useless... not necessarily! it's good for punishing random d izanagi scooters (swift strike?) and a bunch of other attacks. Edited September 25, 2012 by Volvata additional information
OutlawVinegar Posted September 25, 2012 Posted September 25, 2012 Tks.Too bad, this makes her IK useless... Off the top of my head, moves that a well-read IK should work on, usually due to multiple hits + poor recovery: Yu: 214B/AB Swift Strike, raw 236236C/D Ziodyne Chie: poor 5/2DD oki, raw 236A/B Rampage (ghetto bicycle kicks) Yosuke: j236C/D kunai (easily), raw 236236C/D Garudyne Yukiko: 214214C/D Maragidyne Elizabeth: 236A/B Zio, 214C/D Maragidyne, 236C/D Garudyne approaches Teddie: 236A/B Bearscrew, jA(?) Akihiko: 236A/B Killrush, (perhaps?) 214214C/D Ziodyne Mitsuru: ... 236236A/B, after a DP, I guess? Aigis: 236A/B Gatling, raw 214C/D Megido approaches? Labrys: Nothing that she should ever really try in neutral... 5DD oki, I suppose. Shadow Labrys: Nothing that's truly unsafe, but probably off of Asterios' 236C/D mouth laser when attempting mixup Kanji: ...Does he have any move that even hits 3+ times besides his leaping grab? Naoto: 5DD(?), braindead 214AAAAAA gunshots
TheArm05 Posted September 25, 2012 Posted September 25, 2012 Akihiko Maziodyne actually has too much invuln to get hit by Liz IK. For Labrys you can add the awakening gear super. Thats free IK there. Yukiko you can IK her if she goes for a 5C > 2C blockstring in between.
Volvata Posted September 25, 2012 Posted September 25, 2012 (edited) i think kanji's 5D/2D/j.D hits 4 times depending on how many times the player presses D? either way i doubt it would work. :S Edited September 25, 2012 by Volvata additional moves added
Elochai Posted September 25, 2012 Posted September 25, 2012 I think Kanji would have to be mashing D lol.
Volvata Posted September 26, 2012 Posted September 26, 2012 you'd be surprised how desperate some kanjis can get :P
Elochai Posted September 26, 2012 Posted September 26, 2012 More like I'd be the one getting desperate. I hate that match-up. Kanji gets in my face, and I cry a little on the inside.
AchedSphinx Posted September 26, 2012 Posted September 26, 2012 Does anyone happen to know Elizabeth's best combo in the corner off a 5D? The combo thread doesn't really help and I can't seem to find any videos that I've played against good Liz's that actually do hefty amounts from it. Right now I'm assuming that Elizabeth has the highest chance to do 2C in the corner if she wants damage (which seems to be the case every time). I don't really want to auto-pilot my mentality when playing against her, so I was curious about it.
Elochai Posted September 26, 2012 Posted September 26, 2012 From what I've done myself, off of corner 5D, I've done: 5D FC > 5B > sweep > d.garu > 2A > 5B > sweep > d.garu > 2A > 5B > 5C > 2C > b.Bufu > AOA > OMC > Memento mori. On regular 5D: 5D > 5B > sweep > d.garu > 2A > 5B > 5C > 2C > b.bufu > super ender. You can opt to replace the super enders with b.bufu x2 > j.c or 2C > Sb.Zio.
AchedSphinx Posted September 26, 2012 Posted September 26, 2012 How much damage does that do roughly?
Elochai Posted September 26, 2012 Posted September 26, 2012 FC combo does like 6.5k IIRC. I don't remember about the other one, but it's only 1-2k less.
TD Posted September 26, 2012 Posted September 26, 2012 essentially it's exactly the same as the midscreen combo except with mori ender. non fc version in corner does about 5.5 to 5.9k. outlaw vinegar's post is pretty important. it should definitely be highlighted. liz's IK is very good to get to know considering how readily available it usually is to her, and the nature of it: l would go as far as to say, once she gets 100 heat some character's gameplans, pressure/mixups etc. needs to be carefully reconsidered, because the risk is death. obviously it's not the best IK nor is it consistent, but knowledge and proper execution of the move could very well put you in the opponent's mind and in the advantage.
Kiba Posted September 26, 2012 Author Posted September 26, 2012 Kanji: ...Does he have any move that even hits 3+ times besides his leaping grab? Zio? Thanks for this.
OutlawVinegar Posted September 26, 2012 Posted September 26, 2012 Ack, I just kinda typed that on a whim based on both theory-fighting and the handful of matches where I've seen the IK used. I definitely wouldn't take it as word of god based on my observations or anything. Added Outlaw Vinegar's information re: IK to the wiki. Ahh... Tell you what. For the sake of science, and also so I'm not responsible for any misinformation on the wiki, I'll test each of these moves in Training later on tonight. I don't know for certain how the game interprets attacks hitting Liz's counter (is it treated like a whiffing a move, or hitting a block: can the attacker do OMCs/jump cancels?), so it's possible that certain attacks aren't as punishable as I think they are.
AchedSphinx Posted September 26, 2012 Posted September 26, 2012 FC combo does like 6.5k IIRC. I don't remember about the other one, but it's only 1-2k less. Shame, I found a CV with her 5D corner combos and they look pretty advanced. I'm guessing I'll only see them consistently in the 750+ psr range for Elizabeths. Only one actually attempted the AoA > OMC > Mori ender, but dropped the combo. Thanks for the infos.
TD Posted September 26, 2012 Posted September 26, 2012 you don't have to be so modest outlaw XD. even if it wasn't your intentions you helped out pretty decently with the list. if the list is missing stuff right now or needs some correcting it's not a big deal. at the very least it'll keep guys from just 222CDing and hoping it works with no sort of plan.
Elochai Posted September 26, 2012 Posted September 26, 2012 Do you guys think anyone would benefit from a "combo tutorial"-esque video? I've recorded all of the combos from the thread sans 2, and I was thinking of putting them together for those that need visual reference, I suppose. Sony Vegas is being ass, and won't playback the clips, but I can still use Windows Movie Maker, so it's all good (albeit, the quality of video will be a tad lower).
Kiba Posted September 26, 2012 Author Posted September 26, 2012 Alright thanks Outlaw. Elochai I think that would prove to be very beneficial, especially for the beginners.
OutlawVinegar Posted September 27, 2012 Posted September 27, 2012 (edited) Okay, so I mucked around with Megidolaon a bit, and for what it's worth, here are my general findings. - As we know/is stated in the wiki, the counter hit is blockable and can be Evasive Actioned. - Hitting Elizabeth is treated as hitting a blocking opponent, so the opponent is allowed to Jump Cancel/OMC/Invul-Super if they react in time. - If you meet the 3-hit requirement for it in one round, it is removed for the rest of the round. If your opponent hits Megidolaon 3 times but manages to dodge/block the counter, for the rest of the round, Megidolaon will activate off of one additional hit. So currently, the wiki claim of 'your captures are used up' seems to be incorrect (unless this is something specific to Training mode). This is a very cool feature of the move, but it unfortunately requires 2 good reads and 200 SP, so I doubt it's worth it. Having the counter activate on one hit certainly makes the move jump up to 'Major threat', though, since the number of moves you can now punish become pretty ridiculous. So, to correct my speculative list from earlier a bit, you can punish the following moves if the opponent doesn't OMC/Super Cancel, due to poor recovery. Narukami: 214D/CD Swift Strike, 236236C/D Ziodyne Chie: 236A/B/AB Rampage Yosuke: 5B, j236C/D Flying Kunai, 236236C/D Garudyne Yukiko: 5C, 2C, jC Teddie: 236A/B/AB Bearscrew Kanji: None Naoto: 2[C], 214AAAA Snipe (any) Aigis: 2B (specific spacing, non-Orgia), 236A/B/AB 7th Gen Gatling Blast, j236A/B/AB 7th Gen Vulcan Cannon, 236C/D/CD Megido Fire EX, 214214D Heavenly Spear Mitsuru: 236236A/B Myriad Arrows Akihiko: 236A/B/AB Kill Rush Elizabeth: 5B, jB, 236A/B/AB Maziodyne, 236C/D/CD Magarudyne Labrys: 5C (mid-long range), 2C, 5DD Shadow Labrys: None Moves listed in bold are ones used often in neutral or when starting offense, and so might be useful to keep in mind Additionally, characters who use their Persona for oki or tandem attacks need to be more aware when Liz hits 100 SP. This can of course be completely blown up by safe jumps and baiting (like any counter), but characters who autopilot their offense can very easily cost themselves the match if they overcommit. I have to admit, I'm slightly disappointed in this move. It's not like Elizabeth really needs another way to instant-kill opponents, but this move would be so much better if opponents were treated as though they whiffed a move, or if it went off instantly with the superflash. Teddie's jA, for example, would be a really easy way to land this, but he can double Jump Cancel and air block if he still has air options left. I'm really surprised at how easily it can eat Aigis' 2B bullets, though. I highly recommend people try it out a few times in Training just to see how free it is. Be warned that if Aigis is in Orgia, she can back/up-dash to invul through it, but most Aigis use 2B when they're stalling for Orgia to recharge, so I think it might actually be threatening in that matchup. My main thoughts on Megidolaon at this point are that it's most viable in Elizabeth mirrors (whoever Maziodynes loses), then probably Aigis (braindead 2Bs will cost the match), then Naoto/Teddie/Shadow Labrys (Persona/Item oki and an airdash jump-in are riskier) after that. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to help in Liz's lopsided matchups in either direction, as Mitsuru and Kanji only seem to use single-hit moves for their usual starters. And that's that, I think. There are other moves it can counter (Yukiko Maragidyne, Chie Meteors), but the spacing is too specific to really justify doing it unless you're really confident. Edited September 27, 2012 by OutlawVinegar
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