[Accent Core] Sol Badguy General Discussion

[Izanagi SOL777]

Is this any good? In a local match, I was fighting a testament user. I used FRC gunflame and the bandit bringer set up, and I decided to use Grandviper which suprisingly did clean hit while the testament was sliding. Just wondering cause I've never seen that in matches.

[faultydefense]

by all means it does good damage if you can land it consistently, but the reason you don't see it often is because you have to take in sooo many factors at once to make it clean hit, its really a science when you get down to it, most combos using it in combo vids just kinda fiddle with it til they find the right timing for one specific point, what i mean by this is you have to hit a very specific point of a person at a specific height, when you use certain attacks you can kind of force yourself in the right position to make a clean hit come out, which is how sol is able to have BnBs and reliable sidewinder set-ups. But to combo a GV into a BB you have to instantly take all this into consideration, and its really just not plausible, to pull it off in a match you really either have to be in the corner so you know exactly what to do because there's some practice done. Other than that, luck is a factor... but: your opponent's character their weight and clean hit box how far/close you are from the corner how many hits of GV to hit out how many hits are already in the combo which raises/lowers the previous item but once you've played enough, there's probably some kind of idea on where to hit and you can aim for that general area and with a little luck, blam for example, just by playing a lot i feel that certain characters are easier to clean hit with grand viper, specifically the heavyweights like johnny, robo, or potemkin but i like flashy play...so keep it up :D

[Izanagi SOL777]

Thanks for the whole lesson and everything :D there were some parts I didn't know. So your saying that I need to change my combo methods depending on the characters right? right now I was testing something out and grand viper did clean hit on certain characters after doing bandit bringer. I have the whole frcing down (although I sometimes get frustarated with FRC gunflame), but when I get a clean hit, my combo only consists of j.slash ---> sidewinder cause everything else I get ( like 2HS) just becomes dead beat when other people can land them, any reason for that?

[faultydefense]

you do things like 5S > 2H > j.xxx ... to pick them up into sidewinder when they're too low to just go j.S > SW if you do it enough you just start knowing when to do what. its really not a bad idea to just start hitting your opponent in training mode and trying to turn it into clean hits, thats the easiest way to get used to sidewinders some things to know for when you're learning do 5S> 2H when they're low and you need to pick them up do 5K > 2H when they're realy low... j.H moves them up less in an air hit than j.S does, what this means is sometimes when you j.S > SW and you hit too LOW you probably should have done j.H > SW after you get really used to doing clean hits, and you're hitting 3 or so SW into knockdown consistently you can start playing with moves to get into sidewinder in less hits or with more powerful hits/less guardbar lowering hits (like hitting 2H > SW instead of j.S). this is useful because SW's do damage based on how many clean hits are in the combo, but each other move prorates them down so the damage isn't multiplied. But when you can start doing empty jump > sidewinder's as much as possible, or 2H directly into SW you can start seeing damage increase. But like i said, don't worry about those for a while, its something you can pick up at anytime, and some people emphasize knockdown more than the extra damage. So at first just worry about GETTING the clean hit, then worry about getting into the clean hit FASTER

[Izanagi SOL777]

So in the end it's really based on practicing,reacting to what's currently happening and experimenting on things right? anyways thanks for the help lol this is gonna help for my next match xD.

[VR-Raiden]

some things to know for when you're learning

do 5S> 2H when they're low and you need to pick them up

do 5K > 2H when they're realy low...

j.H moves them up less in an air hit than j.S does, what this means is sometimes when you j.S > SW and you hit too LOW you probably should have done j.H > SW

Just to add to that, if you hit a j.S and notice they are too low for a clean hit, sometimes you can salvage the clean hit by doing j.K after j.S. They get picked up a little bit from the j.K.

So you can do

whatever to pick them up > j.S > j.K > SW for when they're too low as j.S hits.

Doesn't seem to happen much, but it's happened to me before.

[VR-Raiden]

I'm pretty sure this has been answered before but I haven't found where. How exactly is the GF FRC > instant WT done? I thought it was GF > input 623 > FRC. Does it matter what buttons you FRC with? I've been trying it with my usual K+S+HS and the WT comes out, but they're always in blockstun from the GF before WT can grab them. Happens whether I stand right in their face and start from GF or do a running in 5K (1 hit) > GF This is what I'm getting most of the times I try it. WT comes out but they're always in blockstun. and this is being done on Sol.

[Nakkiel]

Use 2K instead of 5K. If you want to use 5K, try delaying the WT as slightly as possible.

[VR-Raiden]

So the input isn't the problem then? Haven't been getting it from 2K either. Also it looks like they're in block stun from the GF when I do it, not the 5K or 2K. It looks like WT is needing to come out faster. Maybe I'm getting the GF FRC on frame 15 and it has to be frame 14?

[Nakkiel]

Possibly. I've seen japanese players miss it so I imagine it's very hard to time. I suggested the use of 2K because it's -1 on block and I have no idea what 5K(1hit) on block is.

[faultydefense]

I'm pretty sure this has been answered before but I haven't found where. How exactly is the GF FRC > instant WT done? I thought it was GF > input 623 > FRC. Does it matter what buttons you FRC with? I've been trying it with my usual K+S+HS and the WT comes out, but they're always in blockstun from the GF before WT can grab them. Happens whether I stand right in their face and start from GF or do a running in 5K (1 hit) > GF

This is what I'm getting most of the times I try it. WT comes out but they're always in blockstun.

and this is being done on Sol.

I can say for sure it works from 5K(1) (i've only done it from a running start so iono exact requirements) but 5K > gunflame FRC wildthrow, i do the same inputs as you do with the gunflame > dp motion> KSH, you don't need to end with forward, but it doesn't hurt. My only advice is let go of KSH immediately when you FRC because I think the motion may be negative edged. I'm fairly sure its just about doing it as soon as possible, I can't say exactly, but I can tell you at least your input is correct.

random note, but i think the frame you grab them on may actually be different if they're standing or crouching... I've programmed this into training mode before and had it where I threw someone if they were standing but not if they were crouching...but i have been able to do it to a crouching opponent

[faultydefense]

double post, but it can also be done from 5K > 5S > GF FRC > WT, no instant blocking necessary, so I wouldn't be surprised if the attack doesn't have to be a running one (5K > 5S does though...but I think a 5K (1) wouldn't require it), really, I just think you need to be just short of max wild throw range, you probably knew, but it doesn't require corner either. But I forgot to test how character specific it is (ie, characters who's hitboxes are too wide may get put into blockstun by GF earlier)

[VR-Raiden]

ok, thanks. I still am not having much success with it. I probably just need to practice more. Anyway, this is the match I saw that made me want to try learning it again:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plMICmxV71A&feature=channel_page

He does it at 2:09 and 3:03

[faultydefense]

by chance do you play pad? because it got a lot easier for me when i switched to stick?

[VR-Raiden]

by chance do you play pad? because it got a lot easier for me when i switched to stick?

Yeah, I still play pad lol. Sort of in the process of learning stick, but I only have a 360 stick (which I'm borrowing) at the moment. So I haven't been able to spend time on GG with a stick yet.

[Blade]

I miss playing Sol....he's so much easier to rev up than Ragna....sigh...

[Nakkiel]

what did that have to do with anything

[ilikeusingdizzy]

nothing dude:)

[Arvoyea]

I need some help. I can manage doing SW loops now, but I have some problems. Here's how I usually do it: Wild throw -> j.S -> SW (Clean Hit) -> 2HS -> j.S -> SW (Clean Hit) -> j.S -> SW -> Bandit Revolver Most of the time, however, the beat count goes black when I hit someone with the second j.S. And I still have problems inputting commands. I'll mess up and do VV instead of SW. How can I avoid messing up making hits invalid (which I guess the beat count going black means) and not mixing up commands?

[Orrax]

So, it usually goes black beat between the 2H and the j.S? If so, you're just not doing the j.S fast enough. Also, getting VV instead of SW has been a problem for a lot of people since the game came out. IIRC, the game reads 9236 and 6236 as dragon punches, so if you're holding a forward jump for too long, it reads that you did a dragon punch instead of a quarter circle. The solution is to simply let go of jump as soon as you input it; do not hold it at all. As long as you do that, it should work, but it may take a little getting used to.

[BADX]

About the BB slide to repeatable BBs in the corner, is there something i'm missing as a set up or why can't i link BB in the corner on the sliding opponent

[faultydefense]

only works on zappa and potemkin and theres only a 2f (? i think) window to hit it

[Yggjrasil]

I need some help. I can manage doing SW loops now, but I have some problems.

Here's how I usually do it: Wild throw -> j.S -> SW (Clean Hit) -> 2HS -> j.S -> SW (Clean Hit) -> j.S -> SW -> Bandit Revolver

Most of the time, however, the beat count goes black when I hit someone with the second j.S. And I still have problems inputting commands. I'll mess up and do VV instead of SW. How can I avoid messing up making hits invalid (which I guess the beat count going black means) and not mixing up commands?

I usually do Wild Throw -> j.s -> SW(Clean Hit) -> j.s -> j.s -> SW (Clean Hit) -> j.s -> SW (clean hit). This is how I usually do it and i get up to three clean hits on some people who tech extremely fast. (May.....) and during the j.s just try your best to make sure your thumb inputs 2 instead of 6 before you do SW otherwise you're just gonna do VV and possibly get punished if your opponent is smart enough to capitalize.

[Arvoyea]

So, what would be some good mixup/pressure tactics for Sol? To me, it seems he doesn't have much options in that category. And would he be considered 'high risk'? It always looks like to me you have to be ready to not screw up instead of eating a combo just to get some good damage in. Just saying.

[VR-Raiden]

So, what would be some good mixup/pressure tactics for Sol? To me, it seems he doesn't have much options in that category.

For some mix ups that involve WT, it depends on how your opponent likes to deal with it. Do they jump to avoid it, try to hit you out of it, or throw you out of it.

A simple mix up from blocked a 2P,

2P > WT - tick throw, catches them for sitting there blocking

2P > 2K (hits) - 2K catches opponent for trying to jump, backdash, or throw you after they block the 2P

2P > (delay) 2D - if timed right, 2D will CH the opponent if they try to attack after your 2P. 6P or 2H/5H can also work.

Meaty j.S and GF FRC are other ways to start mix ups like this.

High low mix up from GF FRC,

GF FRC > dash jump > low air dash j.S...

GF FRC > dash jump > land 2K/2D

You have to be careful with the spacing on this though, half the time I try to land for the low I land too close and get thrown.

I'm probably over simplifying it, but there's some stuff to work with.