[CP] Carl Clover Gameplay Discussion (Changelog in OP)

[Sodelic]

This is probably borderline useless knowledge (or everyone knows it already ) but after his regular front throw, Carl can fully charge his CT and it'll still combo I guess this would be nice for going for timeout or for letting Nirvana charge.

[sinder]

^too bad you can't do much off of that though

Fully Charged CTs should make past iterations combos possible (screw this x seconds rule <.<)

[Mr Oso]

So im having a couple issues which im sure could be answered easily . 1st off is dash super jump with carl strict on the timing? I feel like doing this would help me in a couple of matchups (tager >=3). Whats a good way for punishing roll techs in the corner (2B+2D?). There was a video that made it seem like this could be used to fight pretty much all options but im not sure 0_0. If its O-N-C and the roll left do i punish with 6D or. . . .? what Starter for the UB does everyone hit most often?

Ive played Carl for some time now but just now getting to post on the forums in hopes i can improve my gameplay. So far its been bad matchup city for me and im hoping to find something that wont make me switch to Relius . Hopefully i can post some videos in the critique thread and just kinda go from there.

[Raiza57]

So im having a couple issues which im sure could be answered easily . 1st off is dash super jump with carl strict on the timing? I feel like doing this would help me in a couple of matchups (tager >=3). Whats a good way for punishing roll techs in the corner (2B+2D?). There was a video that made it seem like this could be used to fight pretty much all options but im not sure 0_0. If its O-N-C and the roll left do i punish with 6D or. . . .? what Starter for the UB does everyone hit most often?

Ive played Carl for some time now but just now getting to post on the forums in hopes i can improve my gameplay. So far its been bad matchup city for me and im hoping to find something that wont make me switch to Relius . Hopefully i can post some videos in the critique thread and just kinda go from there.

Dash super?? Not really sure why you would be using that.. I have no idea about the timing. But as for stopping rolls using 6D & Volante both do pretty well. As for the 2B/2D setup, after you end the combo with Jc you should be holding D and release it when they hit the ground. It should be slightly after they hit the ground then you use 2B to stop the roll yourself.

[Psykotik]

I'd say dash super jump is useful as it lets Carl traverse a good amount of the stage without committing to an airdash. The timing feels more lenient in CP although it'll still take some practice to nail down. The input that's worked best for me is 6169.

[Mr Oso]

Thanks fellas. Ill give the 6169 and the 2B-2D a go.

[Sodelic]

So im having a couple issues which im sure could be answered easily . 1st off is dash super jump with carl strict on the timing? I feel like doing this would help me in a couple of matchups (tager >=3). Whats a good way for punishing roll techs in the corner (2B+2D?). There was a video that made it seem like this could be used to fight pretty much all options but im not sure 0_0. If its O-N-C and the roll left do i punish with 6D or. . . .? what Starter for the UB does everyone hit most often?

Ive played Carl for some time now but just now getting to post on the forums in hopes i can improve my gameplay. So far its been bad matchup city for me and im hoping to find something that wont make me switch to Relius . Hopefully i can post some videos in the critique thread and just kinda go from there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q32XJu5LPQo#t=3m33s

3:33 to 4:04 of this video has the 2B+2D corner shenanigans you were talking about.

Also I found a pretty useless corner gimmick that involves using the gear super's low hit stun to go for a throw reset. Maybe this has been used before but I haven't seen or read about it anywhere yet. You basically finish any combo with a gear super in the corner and grab them as soon as you're back to neutral (no CH, RC, or trades required. Actually, any of those would make the timing harder). If you did it correctly, you'll end up getting a tick throw (green). I got it to work once in a real match before he saw it coming the next time since... no one really ends combos with the gear super. I don't think it's really worth it since it costs meter and 214214D does like 3 times more damage with better oki, so...

But hey, if it works, you get a throw combo.

[JG]

Hey! I want to talk about something with Carl.

What lockstring, mixup, reset do you use when the opponent is using Barrier Block, midscreen only.... I'm still having some issues to find a good sequence where i can chage sides or do high/low mixup. That is the one area that i think that EXT Carl excel in comparison to CP Carl. In EXT you could use 5B, 6]D[ to do Crossup or high/low, because the 5B was jump cancelable on block... I miss that move U_U

Edited January 31, 2014 by JG

[Raiza57]

Hey! I want to talk about something with Carl.

What lockstring, mixup, reset do you use when the opponent is using Barrier Block, midscreen only.... I'm still having some issues to find a good sequence where i can chage sides or do high/low mixup. That is the one area that i think that EXT Carl excel in comparison to CP Carl. In EXT you could use 5B, 6]D[ to do Crossup or high/low, because the 5B was jump cancelable on block... I miss that move U_U

TBH EXT carl was better at it, because he gave you more time to confirm into a IAD j2c crossup. But in CP, if you intend to crossup, a higher level of commitment is required.

[sinder]

TBH EXT carl was better at it, because he gave you more time to confirm into a IAD j2c crossup. But in CP, if you intend to crossup, a higher level of commitment is required.

Tenerraza says hi

j.2c allecan is dead. 6A into allecan mix up isn't the same. CP2 Carl will fix that

[JG]

The problem with Tenerezza, is that you need a 5B/2B, 5C string for being able to jump and get near the opponent. That string is kinda unsafe, because the enemy can mash DP between 5B/2B, 5C or after 5C. Kinda sad that 6A whiff in midscreen if the opponent is using barrier block.

I know that if you manage to land a hit, you have better crossup and mixup options than before.

But when it come to blockstring, if the opponent is using barrier block is more hard to do stuff. Its like that we are forced to use 5A/2A, 5B/2B, 5C string, if we want to continue our pressure.

I want to find a shorter and better blockstring.

[Raiza57]

Tenerraza says hi

j.2c allecan is dead. 6A into allecan mix up isn't the same. CP2 Carl will fix that

Indeed, I find that j2c crossup is not a useful as it was in the last game. I tend to use more vivace crossups. But the issue with that is that you now need ada meter to preform a decent crossup. TBH if carl was better at neutral he would be a much better character. AKA 5c needs its CT properties back.

[crimsonstardust]

I'm looking in to trying Carl out, normally I would start with learning a character's bread and butter to help myself to get an understanding of the character's tool set but I feel like I have to take a different approach to learning Carl, so I dunno where a good starting point to learning Carl is and things I should start messing with.

[sinder]

http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?15453-Marionette-Mastery-Guide

read this please. then ask questions for clarification

and you're right that BnBs aren't the best place to start with Carl (it wont hurt to try) but when you learn them, pulling them off is a totally different story

also this: http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?5924-CT-Carl-Clover-101-Robots-Raise-The-Roof

Ignore 4 because those combos are useless with SMP now.

3 has some truth but some moves have changed:

6A:no longer launches

j.B: no longer fatal

vivace:no longer as invincible as it once was (also longer recovery on B version)

j.C: knockdown property added

5C and 5B switched jump cancels on blocked (5C can be jump canceled on block now but 5B can't)

There are A LOT of sources in the archives and CP changes thread. As with all characters you wanna learn check these places out first.

Open to all questions here, but many users have put a lot of work into Carl strategy so at least acknowledge it (and in other sections to their work isn't ignored)

sorry for being brash, I don't mean it :D, but the threads have great info and people tend to just ignore them... OFTEN

Edited February 7, 2014 by sinder

[wiredgod]

I'm looking in to trying Carl out, normally I would start with learning a character's bread and butter to help myself to get an understanding of the character's tool set but I feel like I have to take a different approach to learning Carl, so I dunno where a good starting point to learning Carl is and things I should start messing with.

The two combos I started with were (in C-O-N) 2A, 5BB, 623C, 421D, sjc.B, j.2C, j.B, dj.B, dj.C, 8D, 3C, 236236D

and 2B, 5BB, 623C, 421D, 5C, j.B, j.C, 46D, 5C, sjc.B, JC, j.B, j.2C, j.C, 8D, 3c, 236236D

These will help you get the feel down for Carl's doll a bit and some of the negative edging. Also get that teleport down. In training mode, (without holding D) do a backdash in the corner, then do 22]D[. Pat yourself on the back if you can execute the teleport before the backdash ends.

Here are some videos I've bookmarked and found off the Carl forums here. Realistically, it will be a while before you're able to execute this stuff. It's probably better to look at the matches in the video section to learn Carl.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q32XJu5LPQo&feature=youtu.be&t=21s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZF27vJOB-R8&feature=youtu.be

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sd53IH7WVZc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPuEZvNmFUM&feature=youtu.be

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBAvbbLvbbY

[crimsonstardust]

In training mode, (without holding D) do a backdash in the corner, then do 22]D[. Pat yourself on the back if you can execute the teleport before the backdash ends.

I'm confused about this, so basically 22D during backdash?

I'm also seeing the ]D[ input for a number of other stuff also, does that mean to negative edge the input?

[wiredgod]

I'm confused about this, so basically 22D during backdash?

I'm also seeing the ]D[ input for a number of other stuff also, does that mean to negative edge the input?

Assume all D button inputs are negative edge. I'm just being lazy not writing [ and ].

Yes, so the input would be like 44, ]D, 22, D[, land

[JG]

So... by the look of it, Carl is practically going to be the same. At least Doll Gauge Expenditure and Doll Gauge Recovery are kinda nice.

Cantabille on counter hit.... pffff.

Some how i was expecting a buff in ours normals or at least being able to do solo combos with Cantabille.

O well, i suppose that we are going to continue to be A tier.

[Raiza57]

Instead of buffing our neutral capabilities, the made ada more durable. I already thought that her meter usage was ok in my book. But this, this is a gift from the gods. Now if your not hitting Ada and taking her Hp down every time the opportunity presents itself it makes it that much easier to kill you. Also with the universal change of all air attacks having a increase P1, this will increase how much damage we get from our UB setup. And with this Relius style OD this gives us a reason to go into overdrive now. Im liking this alot. Overall buffs around the board. And now Cantabile is a legit punish tool, all those ID's from far away can be punish without needed Ada to hold out hand.

[sinder]

yea I thought the same thing in terms of Ada gauge as well. That alone makes positioning better since you can move her closer to the opponent and turn her off without wasting anything. Simply great against Haku tbh. Also great for trolling purposes.

Added with faster gauge recovery is just superb.

The only slap in the face is the cantabile change though, as raw cantabile is... well unsafe. But as stated before, if they made cantabile better it would be very difficult to stop Carl's momentum, especially with the gauge buffs. [in other words, Carl would be S+ Tier pretty damn quickly]

[someonewhodied]

i actually nail people with a lot of cantibile counter hits.

After 6B wait a bit. They will expect the unsafe overhead gatling. Boom

Counterhit cantibile.

Or when they start respecting it start going into the overhead

[Rishtopher]

i actually nail people with a lot of cantibile counter hits.

After 6B wait a bit. They will expect the unsafe overhead gatling. Boom

Counterhit cantibile.

I should try this out. I don't think I've ever gotten a CH cantabile before..

Wondering if I should be sad about the volante meter usage increase but I don't tend to throw it out to get in anyway.

[JG]

Is not that Nirvana is more durable, in fact her duration is the same as before. The only difference is that his gauge start recovering more faster. This is especially good on the corner, thank to being able to do solo combos with multiples j2.C~Allecancel in a way that you let Nirvana rest and begin the recovery process.

But, at midscreen this change will not influence us so much. Also, i know that is nice that the gauge no longer decreases during Nirvana’s activation animation, but i don't think this will help us to do longers combos with turning on/ turning off Nirvana.

A real buff in that department, would be that Nirvana moves cost lest. On EXT the average cost of Nirvana moves were around 600~720, but on CP the majority cost 1000. Why they just change the cost to an average of 800?

I was hopping a better Vertical box on 6A or cantabile solo combos, maybe less nirvana move consumption.

In the end, i think that Carl will stay almost identical than before. By no means that is bad, is the Top tier where nerfed, maybe Carl will go up a little bit and have less problems against S class.

Also, i dont think that being able to do solo combos will make Carl an S tier character. For him to being S, he woul need that Nirvana moves consume a little less, his normals a little bit more safe (5B -4 and 2B -6 Nice T_T) and a better way do do crossup when the opponent is barrier blocking you.

[sinder]

^In other words make it dumb easy for Carl to open up people?

If everybody got treated that way then this game would be incredibly imbalanced lol. Not saying I don't agree, but that's exactly why he isn't getting those options (except for Nirvana moves costing too much, that would just make him too good :3

[TheEssWord]

What do you think they mean by her "activation animation"?

The small animation when you first turn her on, or the entire time that she's walking around? If it's the second, that's seriously awesome.