Surf Posted April 4, 2013 Posted April 4, 2013 (edited) 2B 11 frame startup? -6? Damn. Anyways thanks. Knowing these numbers helps a lot in thinking about more setups Edit: Since you mentioned 6C > Immediate Stance Cancel was + I decided to see just how plus it was. From the numbers, α Sepharim is probably the best one to do. Because it has 9 frames of startup and the stance cancel recovers in 12 frames. So 21 frames total. While I was figuring out the advantage from 6C I decided to figure the others out as well. Again these are stances canceled from the normals first active frames and having the stance held for the shortest duration of time available. Assuming the blockstun your in in CP from certain attack levels is the same as EX 5B > Stance = -8. Original is -10 2B > Stance = -8. Original is -6 5C > Stance = -5. Original is -9 GA 5C > Stance = -5. Original is -1 2C > Stance = -5. Original is -4 GA 2C > Stance = -3. Original is +5 3C > Stance = -5. Original is -7 6C > Stance = -3. Original is -14 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Edited April 4, 2013 by Surf
skd Posted April 4, 2013 Author Posted April 4, 2013 (edited) 2B 11 frame startup? -6? Damn. Anyways thanks. Knowing these numbers helps a lot in thinking about more setups Edit: Since you mentioned 6C > Immediate Stance Cancel was + I decided to see just how plus it was. From the numbers, α Sepharim is probably the best one to do. Because it has 9 frames of startup and the stance cancel recovers in 12 frames. So 21 frames total. While I was figuring out the advantage from 6C I decided to figure the others out as well. Again these are stances canceled from the normals first active frames and having the stance held for the shortest duration of time available. Assuming the blockstun your in in CP from certain attack levels is the same as EX 5B > Stance = -8. Original is -10 2B > Stance = -8. Original is -6 5C > Stance = -5. Original is -9 GA 5C > Stance = -5. Original is -1 2C > Stance = -5. Original is -4 GA 2C > Stance = -3. Original is +5 3C > Stance = -5. Original is -7 6C > Stance = -3. Original is -14 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ from what i understand, the total duration listed is literally, the total duration. they just get canceled on different frames, but listed duration is still the same (10f total duration on beta cancel, making it the fastest, matching up to the arcadia writeup). otherwise, there would literally be no use in stance cancel, and you can visibly confirm that it recovers faster. The duration of the literal cancel is 3 frames. Arcadia could be wrong, however, who knows. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Edited April 4, 2013 by not_lunaris
Surf Posted April 4, 2013 Posted April 4, 2013 I initially did what your mentioning but the numbers came up all +. I was going to post it but after thinking I thought the numbers were way too high and I did it wrong. But if those numbers were true, then thats just stupid
skd Posted April 4, 2013 Author Posted April 4, 2013 (edited) I initially did what your mentioning but the numbers came up all +. I was going to post it but after thinking I thought the numbers were way too high and I did it wrong. But if those numbers were true, then thats just stupid i understand. the alternative has 6C being +6, but im more inclined to believe arcadia's writeup. in either case, we can look at it from another perspective. 19f hitstun on 6C, non ground CH. if her fastest possible cancel was 21f, she would be at disadvantage on HIT. However, this isnt the case as you can see in a ton of videos (as i recall, while doing frame playback of a video the izayoi player dashed before the opponent recovered from the hitstun from 6c. If i was cool i would prowl for a link but im not that cool). Calculating the degree of adv or disadvantage is really difficult with videos that could be littered with frame skips, but here you have a clear cut case of when the opponent recovers in relation to 6C stance cancel. If it was a 21f cancel at best, 19f hitstun would still result in her being unable to act before the opponent (which is clearly wrong as shown by video proof, leaving the other reasonably logical way to interpret the data, which was already backed up by other sources). tl;dr total duration is total duration, not total duration + startup before cancel window. the frame data doesnt do a good job of specifying it though. Edited April 4, 2013 by not_lunaris
Surf Posted April 4, 2013 Posted April 4, 2013 Which is why I became confused once I saw those huge advantages.
Ctrlaltwtf Posted April 4, 2013 Posted April 4, 2013 My opinion on Izayoi is changing more often than Surfeit's avatar. I really can't make any calls til I get my hands on the game now.
skd Posted April 4, 2013 Author Posted April 4, 2013 Which is why I became confused once I saw those huge advantages. its ok, you have an answer now. you can believe in me, thats what im here for! ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
peterthepickle Posted April 5, 2013 Posted April 5, 2013 Oooh, so Izayoi could possibly have stance cancel shenanigans like Johnny's Mist Cancels? That sounds awesome! So if I'm calculating these right, the numbers on block should look something like this, assuming that you can cancel after the first active frame: 5A: 11F blockstun - 10F cancel = +1 2A: +1 5B: 13F blockstun - 10F cancel = +3 2B: +3 5C: 16F blockstun - 10F cancel = +6 5C(GA): +6 2C: +6 3C: +6 2C(GA): 18F blockstun - 10F cancel = +8 6C: +8 Please correct my numbers if they're off!
skd Posted April 5, 2013 Author Posted April 5, 2013 Oooh, so Izayoi could possibly have stance cancel shenanigans like Johnny's Mist Cancels? That sounds awesome! So if I'm calculating these right, the numbers on block should look something like this, assuming that you can cancel after the first active frame: 5A: 11F blockstun - 10F cancel = +1 2A: +1 5B: 13F blockstun - 10F cancel = +3 2B: +3 5C: 16F blockstun - 10F cancel = +6 5C(GA): +6 2C: +6 3C: +6 2C(GA): 18F blockstun - 10F cancel = +8 6C: +8 Please correct my numbers if they're off! You should work off of recovery. 10f total duration for stance cancel means you can essentially replace recovery with 10f and adjust static difference accordingly. I'm not sure what you did, but it should be 5A: -1 2A: -1 5B: -2 2B: +2 5C: +1 5C(GA): +4 2C: +1 3C: +4 2C(GA): +6 6C: +6
Surf Posted April 5, 2013 Posted April 5, 2013 My opinion on Izayoi is changing more often than Surfeit's avatar. 5A: -1 2A: -1 5B: -2 2B: +2 5C: +1 5C(GA): +4 2C: +1 3C: +4 2C(GA): +6 6C: +6 Those are the same numbers I got. And I thought it was a lie
peterthepickle Posted April 5, 2013 Posted April 5, 2013 Oooh, that makes sense, sorry about that. Well, in any case, they still look pretty good..
NeoGio0o Posted April 6, 2013 Posted April 6, 2013 Can Izayoi still cancel her super into teleport on whiff or block? And if yes around how many frames in do you guys think she can cancel into it? That super looks really annoying to punish.
Kiba Posted April 6, 2013 Posted April 6, 2013 Can Izayoi still cancel her super into teleport on whiff or block? I can answer the first half. Yea she can still cancel her super into teleport on whiff and/or block.
skd Posted April 6, 2013 Author Posted April 6, 2013 Can Izayoi still cancel her super into teleport on whiff or block? And if yes around how many frames in do you guys think she can cancel into it? That super looks really annoying to punish. no hard numbers atm, my guess is either 7f or 16f. my guess leans towards 16 on block and hit. no idea on whiff. Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
Dreiko Posted April 7, 2013 Posted April 7, 2013 http://youtu.be/GxIGfnRXDpg?t=12m43s That GA backdash looks sexy as hell.
Surf Posted April 13, 2013 Posted April 13, 2013 (edited) Im guessing there are no numbers anywhere in the mook for her Gain Art dash right. Nvm Edited April 13, 2013 by Surf
Cryingvoid Posted April 20, 2013 Posted April 20, 2013 Please advise on nice Izayoi JP players. There are many in the video thread who don't look very sexy to me. But Kuresu looks awesome! Though there are not so many videos of him. Please advise on more kick ass IZ players.
skd Posted April 20, 2013 Author Posted April 20, 2013 Welllll....there aren't that many notable players. kuresu is strong but that's mostly just due to him being an innately strong player haha. otherwise, sanjou kanako is good? other than those 2, I feel like most are just "okay".
Cryingvoid Posted April 20, 2013 Posted April 20, 2013 (edited) Thanks, that's what I've feared. Upd: haha, Shimotsuki tries hard above! Edited April 20, 2013 by Cryingvoid
Surf Posted April 20, 2013 Posted April 20, 2013 I like Shimotsuki. Still havnt watched Sanjou, at least i dont think i have. Ill get on that now
Kurushii Posted April 20, 2013 Posted April 20, 2013 Did the mook have a revolver table? Yes the mook has the gatling tables.
skd Posted April 24, 2013 Author Posted April 24, 2013 (edited) Did the mook have a revolver table? ye http://www.dustloop.com/wiki/index.php?title=Izayoi_Frame_Data_%28BBCP%29#Revolver_Action_Table the rest of the frame data page is up! aside from blatant mook errors it should be alright as far as what i speculate to be wrong (aside from missing stuff like strike fall starter rating, etc) -Valkyrie Astraea untech too short, or teleport duration too long (relationship between teleport total duration and untech is off) -Similarly, Crusade Seraphim Alpha and Aegis blade suffer from the same issue with teleports. Im leaning towards either teleport having different data on cancel, or it being wrong altogether(in the good way, so its better than we thought?!) also i have to get all the trans-am startup data by hand orz #whensoctober Edited April 24, 2013 by not_lunaris
ZXNature Posted April 24, 2013 Posted April 24, 2013 Thannnnnnnnnnnnnnks One more question. Do you know how to get the Trans-Am bits/funnels to attack? Is it releasing buttons, like Arakune?
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