AC: General Discussion

[Alcyon One]

i'm not too happy with how dizzy looks so far. now that she can't do a tight okizeme with fish as she used to, she seems to need do a lot more running away and zoning.

[Sundown]

i'm not too happy with how dizzy looks so far. now that she can't do a tight okizeme with fish as she used to, she seems to need do a lot more running away and zoning.

QFT, im not too happy either, Dizzy was looking awesome on paper with her "multi-fish on the fly" changes and so on, but that laser fish avtivation/motion change really is fukin her up, im definetly not too happy either.

[Kbalch]

Also, what do you think of P fish on knockdown? I think by doing the P fish on knockdown, we are adding up the tick throw between bites threat, that doesnt exist with the laser fish.

By doing P fish we have several options, like dashing in close and do 5k, ©S or 2K, ©S gatlings, or doing IAD and either the j.P, j.H usual, or the new IAD j.2S, j.H string, and we also have the tick throw between bites.

Kbalch, do you think it is possible to do P fish on knockdown, and switch to HS laser fish after 1st bite? That way wed get the "non mofo-like advancing yes meaty-hitting fish", and then switch to HS for more cover, wut u think?

Also, im wondering if that could work with K fish too, and switch to laser just before it dissapears after the lock down bite.

P fish bites too short off of a knockdown from ~throw range on the first bite so that your opponent can usually get up/superjump out/escape before the second bite happens. If your opponent is smart they can usually use that small gap to escape. From throw distance (or off of a throw) K fish as soon as they hit the ground Will be at perfect distance and if timed right will hit right as they stand. Its a tighter lock, but if the timing is a little off they can probably still Superjump out. Laser was great cuz it covered a larger area and made this essentially error proof.

P fish -> dash in combos, work. In fact, these have been featured in several combo videos spanning from #R and slash. The problem with this approach is you have to approach first before fish attack to close the gap before p fish bites. Since you are in front you are open to get hit. If you are trying variations like this try hitting them with quick activating moves from max distance (2p). 2p Activates fast enough that it would stuff most moves they tried to counter with. This approach will not work against people like Sol who can just mash V/V and beat anything you do. So this would probably be character specific against people who dont have great wakeup.

As for p link to HS fish, I saw this work once in a vid from AC at a long distance but that is it. Since I dont know much about AC timing whether this would be viable from up close or even a good consistent tactic at all is yet to be seen. Hopefully more vids will clarify. It seems like you would have the same problem as before though of the laser not being able to activate fast enough. Although at least I think it would be far enough back.

As for K fish -> Laser after first bite, this is an interesting idea. Does anyone know how you select it to switch to laser after first bite. Is it just negative edging HS or do you do a full 214 HS? Im sure we would find lockdown patterns that had you throwing in a hardslash and at same time preparing a laser. I dont know if all of it would be fast enough to make it inescapable though.

[Sundown]

Im guessing the fish switch would be done by negative edging, but i dont think that info has been posted yet so really i have no clue either. Hopefully K fish -> HS fish turns out to be a viable lockdown option to make up for the HS fish fuk up.

[Sundown]

Soooo i was watching these new videos just released of Dizzy and the DI player did throw -> BACKDASH (real quick, like the moment the throw recovery ends) -> HS fish... and surprise surprise thx to the lil backdash the DI player did and the new faster-moving-more-advancing HS laser fish fired just on top of the opponent and got the lockdown... now i dont know if this would be consistent or it was just some weird thing or the opponent didnt wake up in time but hey, figured id let u guys know.

[Jet Set Dizzy]

any info on uses of jc the 2D? has it been used as a launcher?

[Sundown]

2D JC cant work as a launcher, its done to make ur poke strings safe, basically, if ure doing a string and ur opponent is blocking everything just finish it with a 2D (for example, a 5H 2D which gatlings) and JC the move to be completely safe and runaway. I dont think we will be seeing any more combos off of 2D since the FRC from 2D was removed.

[Nehle]

I think it's more likely that the 2D JC will be used like holding a pike, blockstring, end with 2D, release pike, JC Bubble, reset pressure

[Sundown]

I think it should work pretty well both ways like, if u need to run out of there, 2D JC and bubble to cover your runaway. And if youre applying preassure you can do that too, doesnt really matter if the 2D hits or not, u JC it anyway, Bubble, AD and pop the bobble or w/e mixup you wanna go for from there u know, the 2D -> JC -> Bubble gives u a lot of versatility.

[Jet Set Dizzy]

so basically its the safest move under the sun. i get it. :amazed:

[Jet Set Dizzy]

I want dizzy to get necro install cause it's fun.

[Nehle]

I think it should work pretty well both ways like, if u need to run out of there, 2D JC and bubble to cover your runaway.

Yes, I'm just saying that with a little planning you shouldn't haver to run away in the middle of your own pressure

And if youre applying preassure you can do that too, doesnt really matter if the 2D hits or not, u JC it anyway

What? You can't JC a whiffed move. In fact you can't cancel it in any way except FRC, which 2D doesn't have any more.

[Sundown]

I didnt mean whiff, i meant like hit as in block or not block, my fault, bad phrasing i guess. I guess the correct way to say it was "And if youre applying preassure you can do that too, doesnt really matter if the 2D hits (and knocks down) or gets blocked by the opponent, u JC it anyway" There we go i think its clearer now

[Effenhoog]

anyone know if the D->j.D->j.D->bubble->j.H (bubble pops)->land->jump->air combo still works? I haven't seen it in any matches, but then I never really saw it that much in Slash, either.

[Sundown]

I havent seen it either, but i dont see why it wouldnt be there nemore, Dizzy's changes were in other areas i think, only change Dizzy suffered in AC involving the bubble loop is j.H being a lil bit slower, but i dont think that will have a massive effect on that combo making it useless or something like that.

[Tage*Proto]

Has it been confirmed if throw backdash HS fish is indeed the "safest" way to get the old style laser out in time?

[DrgnEclair]

dizzy punches unbelievers in the face

[Sundown]

Has it been confirmed if throw backdash HS fish is indeed the "safest" way to get the old style laser out in time?

Nope, that was only an observation i had from only ONE video, havent seen it tried in ne other videos nor confirmed it could work constantly.

I also really want to see some1 try THROW -> K FISH (meaty bite) -> switch to HS FISH afte the bite. Im thinking that could be a very reliable way to get the laser fish lockdown in time, wed just have to get the timing down perfectly for the K fish and then switch.

[Jet Set Dizzy]

Nope, that was only an observation i had from only ONE video, havent seen it tried in ne other videos nor confirmed it could work constantly.

I also really want to see some1 try THROW -> K FISH (meaty bite) -> switch to HS FISH afte the bite. Im thinking that could be a very reliable way to get the laser fish lockdown in time, wed just have to get the timing down perfectly for the K fish and then switch.

it's more interesting if you have to do that anyway. (as long as it works :blink: )

[CrimsonDisaster]

throw, lazer fish, attack as they get up, lazer fish lazers, continue attack is pretty standard Slash Dizzy oki =( the zooming forward means a few things, though... All of her basic midscreen setups off a throw are gone so you pretty much should just push them to the corner or do some stupid homing bubble stupid stupid stupidity. Corner setups are probably a BIT safer (ie. uppercuts may be more likely to hit the fish) but the trade-off is that the fish will no longer do ridiculous things like eat mashed counter-throw attempts or eat a reversal Warrant for you ;(

[Sundown]

^^^^ Yup, thats why we are trying to come up with some weird ass switch-fish-on-the-fly pattern to try and find something that could replace the HS fish lockdown , we need HS fish lockdown!!! lol t_t

[CrimsonDisaster]

I use S fish more than bite fish in Slash ;(

[Sundown]

I know it is way tooooo early for tier lists to be reliable, but in almost all of them Dizzy appears to b in either B tier or A- tier, which means an upgrade in Dizzy from where she was in Slash- What do you guys think is responsible for this so-called upgrade? I mean we all know how HS fish got raped as an oki tool, and obviously the japanese making this lists know so too, so why are they listing her up there? Is it because of her new HOLY-SHIT-GATLING gatlings? or her switch-fish-on-the-fly ability? or 2D JCing?, what is it in your opinion?

[Nehle]

I don't know, looking at those rating; even though she is technically one or two letters higher than in Slash, most seem to agree that she is in or around the very middle of the tier list, which is where she was in slash too. So, yea, taking into the account of what she's gained and lost, she's about there in the middle somewhere. I presonally think fish are neither better nor worse, but they are just different. We can freestyle more with them, but we've also lost some seriously wonderful fish setups. Likewise she has also gained nbetter gatlings and, what it looks like, stronger combos (from J2S) but at the same time she lost health. I think she's still about the same tier as in slash

[Nehle]

Just finished watching the Dizzy combos from the latest Tougeki Damashii DVD.

The hitbox of dizzy FB bubble is fricking HUGE!

This changes quite a lot in my dizzy zoning plans and pressuring plans