AC: General Discussion

[Ice Prince]

Agreed Nehle. Basically I think when you're actually planning on including it in an air string (with projectile cover mind you), then it's alot less of a risk, because you should have ample time to pop it (k bubble with a simple j.k afterwards, or a backdash, j.s with s bubble). Random bubbles are the problem, and yes, throwing caution to the wind for an attempted pop on it can be fatal to a Dizzy. Especially if she doesn't cover herself first with airspike, scythe or fish before going for it. Though in the right situation like backdash, bubble, backdash, j.s or something like that should be fairly safe. In short, just stick to your lovely projectile wall to help advance and don't worry if your bubble isn't used when you throw it. It's better to be around to throw another one in a less risky situation than to risk throwing the match because you just have to pop EVERY bubble you throw.

[Necrosis]

Two questions, one of them on topic: 1. can the bubble still only be popped by DIZZY hitting it or can someone else now? I get the impression they can sometimes from reading posts, I just want to make sure. 2. How low is Dizzy on the defense chart now, and how much damage are we looking to eat per average combo? I was saying from the beginning, so what if she lost lazer fish, she sounds better to me. I'm very happy this turned out, it would seem, true.

[Ice Prince]

1. Yes, Dizzy (or one of her projectiles) is still the only way to pop it. 2. She still has Slash defense (1.31) I believe. Can't confirm that, but I assume as such.

[Nehle]

To expand on what Ice Prince said: 1. Anything that can hit the opponent can pop the bubble, which is everything from Dizzy, and Faust's ambiguous attacks (bomb bag, super bomb) 2. It's the same as Slash, which is still bad, but not as bad as the early rumors about her.

[CrimsonDisaster]

Slash defense modifiers were calculated differently, so Slash 1.31, while still being worse than Dizzy's #R defense modifier by a bit, would not mean that she takes as much damage as Chipp in #R :-O

[Caer-caveral]

Also, her defense is actually 1.15 in Slash (and AC).

[Ice Prince]

Ah, isn't that her #R defense? I could have sworn I read 1.31 for her defense in Slash....eh, oh well. I remember Millia had 1.23 or something like that in #R, so that may be right. In Slash, I know it was 1.44.

[Jet Set Dizzy]

praise the lord she has slash defence! Everonne kept saying diizy had less life.

[Caer-caveral]

Erm, there's got to be another way to express defense or something. I'm just reading from the slash/AC guides, and they both claim 1.15 for Dizzy and 1.21 for Millia, as in they take base damage times that modifier.

[Ice Prince]

Ah alright. That means they're back down to #R defense, which is actually better than their Slash defense was IIRC.

[Teyah]

@ Caer:

Method 1: Raw damage multiplier

Used since at least GGXX in calculating character damage ratings by the GG community.

Easy way to find: Perform a 1-hit Air Dandy Super on your character, divide by 100.

Eg. Dizzy in Slash takes 115 damage from it, so she is 1.15.

Method 2: Modified damage multiplier

Used by ArcSys in Slash, it is believed to take damage scaling and guts ratings into account (I think). So the numbers are skewed farther from 1.00 than with Method 1.

How to find: See official Slash mook. Other than that, no idea

Eg. It says Dizzy is 1.31, so she is 1.31!

[Ice Prince]

If I've not said it before, I'll say it now.... She's back on #R defense damage scale (which is actually a good thing.) I think 1.15 sure beats 1.31 damage. 2d JC is SO nice looking. I'm not just talking regular nice.....I mean "Hell's bells watch me do this!" kinda nice. SOOOO many good options from it, even on block. J.2s is still proving effective as per usual. Multiple fish bite/lazer looks to be more effective than before. Quite annoying I'd say to your opponents. FB bubble I've still not seen as much from....boo. (If anybody has a good match vid of it being effective, plz post that for moi.) I should keep better track than I have.

[CrimsonDisaster]

1.15 (XX/#R) and 1.31 (Slash) were about the same thing. FB bubble is used more or less like I said it is ;( It pops up here and there though Dizzy players like fire supers a lot again ;( j2S > jP is the best gatling ever.

[Effenhoog]

I was wondering... in slash, I like to use Necro's Anger when my opponent is cornered behind projectiles and seems more or less unable to escape. Aside from the occasionally tricky timing to avoid using it while they're in blockstun, it seems to work pretty well. I was wondering if this was actually a valid tactic (especially in Accent Core with the easier input), or if there was some simple way of escaping it. I've never seen it used in a match video ever and the people I play with are at about the same level as me (which means they suck too and might be falling for dumb shit that shouldn't really work, like Sol's 6H -> bandit bringer), so it's probably not a legitimate strategy, but I thought I'd ask.

[Jet Set Dizzy]

Its pretty easy to jump out of almost any time. the key to hitting with it is to use the invinciblity of the move.

[Ice Prince]

Yes, Necro's Anger input is different (and easier) now. I've seen some people attemtp to use it after like an airstring, and I'm wondering if it can catch them if the hit the ground at the right time? That's got me curious, bc I've seen a few Dizzy players do that. Perhaps it's used as a mind game for if they decide to tech really low from a string? In which case....maybe not a bad idea possibly. In Slash with projectiles, it CAN technically work. Just make sure you watch the spacing so you don't whiff (and watch the blockstun from your projectiles). Corner is obviously the best spot. Just be especially careful if you've got a bubble out and a projectile you use pops it before the ground animation kicks in. It will whiff, and you just wasted 50 tension. Personally, I sometimes use Imperial Ray with a projectile wall. Watching a TK bubble, P fish, airspike and Imperial Ray working in unison is just too good.

[Honnou]

You can use Necro's Anger as anti-air in some situations. Once the opponent dedicates themselves to something (double jumping, SJ w/ attack on the way down, IAD with attack, moves like Slayer's J.hs), if the timing is right, you can get them with this guaranteed IIRC. However, it has to be before they're landing, cos if they land AS it goes off, they can just jump again. So, using the invinciblity of the super with this timing can be somewhat tricky.

[Effenhoog]

Thanks for everyone's input ( I especially agree with the fish/bubble/spike/Imperial Ray combination, it's way too amusing). Necro's Anger is a pretty awesome move, I look forward to the new input ( I could never do it very quickly in slash, and I could rarely do it at all from the right). And to bring this thread somewhat more on topic, Accent Core ps2 release is SO friggin close. I can't wait to try AC Dizzy, even if she's low tier again.

[AlterGenesis]

Dizzy's 2D -> Icespike is still no good, right? I've seen it done on occaission, but, after trying it, and mashing a few times it seems to happen like once in every ten tries.

[4r5]

Dizzy's 2D is jump-cancelable, so you cancel the 2D into a jump, then cancel the startup of the jump in to an Ice Spike. Like how you do Slayer's BackDashCancels.

[AlterGenesis]

Hm, I thought it was something like that. Seems to me a little more trouble then it's worth.

[Nehle]

Hm, I thought it was something like that. Seems to me a little more trouble then it's worth.

It's always totally worth it though.

Anyways, for sweep > fish goodness the basic input is 2D8214X. But the only times I manage to land it coherently is when I do the full motion from 8 to 4, ie 2D8963214X. Same with the other inputs except the other war around. Also homing pike is a bitch :c

[AlterGenesis]

Well, I'll defenitely see how the c.D xx works in my matches in AC. Dizzy is needs to be brought out for some beasting.

[Ice Prince]

I do believe we'll see more Dizzy success now than in Slash. Dizzy players have always had to have a type of finess needed to play her efficiently, and especially, to win with her. Now she has an easier time IMO, but she'll still have to work a bit more than some other characters would (IE Sol, Ky, etc). But it's to be expected. This IS Dizzy we're talking about here. :razz: But I look forward to some beastly Dizzy.

[YaR 1030]

i look foward to winning more with Dizzy too. I'm still an Acore virgin. still havn't tried it. But i heard good changes so hopefully i will do better than in Slash.