[CP] Yuuki Terumi Gameplay Discussion

[Ctrlaltwtf]

Terumi's definitely looking stronger.

I wonder if this

means rip Messenga? If he can do 22C > 66 2B/2C midscreen now there's no real reason to go for Messenga unless you need the side swap. You can instead use the meter gained (which will be more since there won't be meter cooldown) for Burensen ender for pretty much the same damage, corner carry and actual oki if you end up close to the corner.

If that's the case, it's definitely a buff but it's sad that a super-based character's super becomes obsolete. A buff to Messenga's range would be a nice addition, since it would make it more viable for punishing stuff and therefore less useless.

I've always considered Messenga's primary purpose to be going through projectiles anyway as anti-zoner punish. Isn't Orochi a better combo extender midscreen anyway?

[Putin]

Burensen > 66 2B path does far less damage than the Messenga route but corner carries.

Now old Burensen lost wallbounce midscreen so it's not an option, I wonder if new Burensen works like the old one combo-wise for whatever reason.

[Justice7541]

Should be fun to see if Garengeki cancel be used to get some troll resets going. SMP 22C Messenger might be able to punish forward roll which is the standard for getting out of his resets. Messenger launching towards Terumi after the crossup should make life a fair bit easier although it's not really essential I guess. Useful against Carl though.

All in all I don't think Terumi needed MORE damage but lol.

[TD]

With invincibility on Orochi, and having a high/low option, does this mean we could potentially perform mixup on the opponent on our own wakeup?

"Oh you just finished performing a combo? Heres a 50/50 reversal mixup" *Trollface

Probably too good to be true, but the concept amuses me.

It seems like a lot of the new cancel windows are designed to work with the new 214214D, but i dont see why you would ever want to use 214214D in those situations when you can just do Fuuenjin and get better screen position and damage.

What could we possibly do with a 22c(first hit) super cancel window?

no, invul kicks in during superflash. it will get bodied by meaties. it will 50/50 dp's during our own mixup.

not sure how the new jarin will be different from the old. maybe it'll give oki.

get the bonus prorate without needing the extra hits. guess there's a level 0 now for 22c and it may be useful for using heat in the middle of the combo in the corner.

[Assassinine]

I was under the assumption that you only get the bonus proration if you do at least level 2, am i mistaken?

Is there a relatively complete set of frame data anywhere? I check the Dustloop Wiki quite often and am usually left with disappointment.

[Putin]

I also thought that the followups had bonus proration, since 22C lvl3 reset > OD > 22C lvl3 > Fuuenjin does 10k lol

On another note, A Burensen looks shit since it has that extra ending animation of OD Burensen where he bows; we're already talking about really poor "mixup" which also seems to have really bad reward. Unless the hitstun is super long and he can at least set up something after a runup, but I doubt it.

[Assassinine]

That untechable time looked about the same as the rest of the supers where he bows. I rewatched the clip where he does it, and paused immediately as hakumen teched, Terumi was still recovering from the bow.

This means that not only will you not get a combo for it, but the opponent can roll past you. If they do, at best you might catch them with 2A but only after they pass you, forcing you to use another 50 meter on messenga (if you even have meter left) to side-swap them back. Another scenario, you may not be able to catch their roll at all and your only option is to start pressure with your back to the corner.

This, combined with the lack of extra kicks in the super leads me to believe it doesnt do much damage at all, but who knows with ASW, it might do 3k on its own for all we know.

Personally if its anything less than 2500 ill probably never use it considering the inability to combo from it and the disadvantageous oki situation it results in. I would rather do an RC mixup that leads into 6D oki.

[Fame96]

Does anyone have a link to the video where some of the terumi changes were showed off.

[Justice7541]

On the plus side, it looks pretty much EXACTLY the same as the overhead version. Even with a superflash to tell you the mixup is coming it's looking to be super hard to block. It'd probably be a good option to close out rounds or possibly to RC into troll resets.

[TD]

please make it not suck

@fame its not even a huge thing he has two stupid clips showing the new awkward jarin and this thing we're supposed to start calling mixup. well maybe but its not looking too practical atm

[Raccoon]

On the plus side, it looks pretty much EXACTLY the same as the overhead version. Even with a superflash to tell you the mixup is coming it's looking to be super hard to block. It'd probably be a good option to close out rounds or possibly to RC into troll resets.

If the damage is low, people will probably opt to eat the low one, as the follow-ups from the high one will undoubtedly do more damage and build more meter.

[Assassinine]

Well, combos from the overhead version will likely be corner only. From a few minutes of tinkering, the best i can come up with:

63214B, 22C (lv 2), 6D oki for 3753 damage, -24 net meter

If you dont care about having abyssmal oki, you can do

63214B, 2C 5C 3C 6D 236D for 3771 for -7 meter, optional orochi ender for oki, 4432 dmg, -57 meter

I really wish they would just fix his 236D's recovery so that he could actually use it as a practical combo ender in the corner.

[Tyrant292]

Hey,

I am new here and new to this game. I decided to pick up Terumi as my character; I've been looking around, learning bit by bit and found it useful thanks a lot guys.

My question is how do you do tk J.2d so close to the ground how do you execute it?

[Justice7541]

Just press the buttons fast, there's no trick to it.

[Errol]

Just press the buttons fast, there's no trick to it.

the trick is that you can buffer your jump cancel from jump cancelable moves.

then input 2d and it will be very close to the ground, even if the inputs were relatively far apart.

this won't help you for raw j2d.

[NecroTheReaper]

While we're on subject, does tkj.2D not combo into 5A? I can do 5C>j.2D>665A fine, but off a raw j.2D it doesnt seem to work unless I'm falling,

[Tyrant292]

Thanks for the replies.

I have a couple more questions. How do I get in with him? I didnt find his jump in's too useful for getting in and does he have a high priority normal? I always get countered when hitting 5B after my opponent finishes his chain.

[AvariceX]

Thanks for the replies.

I have a couple more questions. How do I get in with him? I didnt find his jump in's too useful for getting in and does he have a high priority normal? I always get countered when hitting 5B after my opponent finishes his chain.

I'm new at this too, but you can discourage them trying to counterpoke you by throwing out 5D which is basically safe at max range, or if you have meter and don't mind spending it on RC for safety you can use 6C or 6B to really discourage them. Mix in some 6A and retreating j.2D to prevent them from getting a clear read and stopping their rushdown. Well-spaced 2D is really useful just to make sure they have to deal with something during your approach. If you just run at people and try to hit them raw all the time it's not gonna work, almost everyone has at least one better button than the moves you can approach with.

[Tyrant292]

Thanks bro much appreciated

[Fame96]

Terumi:

Backdash - duration decreased to 22 frames (rather than 25). Invul frames go from 1 to 5 frame (rather than from 1 to 6).

Negative Penalty Resistance - increased from 2 to 4.

5C - attack level decreased from 4 to 3. First hit's knockback is decreased. Second hit's hitstun increased to 20 frames (rather than 19), guard recovery increased to 19 frames (rather than 18), now -2 on block (rather than -3).

5D - now active for 4 frames (rather than 3). Recovery decreased to 18 frames (rather than 23). The closer edge of the hitbox is now taller. Attack level increased from 3 to 4. Now -3 on block (rather than -9). Hit stop decreased to 9 frames (rather than 11). P2 increased to 80% (rather than 74%). Other level-related changes apply.

2D - P1 decreased to 90% (rather than 100%). P2 increased to 92% (rather than 82%). Untech time increased to 36 frames (rather than 30). Aerial hit now has higher blowback, but weaker pull.

6B - start-up decreased to 24 frames (rather than 26). Now active for 3 frames (rather than 2). Now +3 on block (rather than +4).

6C - can now be counter-hit up until the move's last frames. Recovery increased to 31 frame (rather than 29). Now -14 on block (rather than -12). Knockback decreased. Time to follow up on ground counter-hit decreased to 10 frames (rather than 24).

3C - Follow-up time on hit decreased by 1 frame.

6D - the first hit's bottom hitbox is decreased.

Jagaku - damage changed from 300x2, 900 to 360x2, 800. P2 changed from 100, 79x2 to 89x3. If the move hits in the corner, is knocked back. Can be DD-canceled on first hit, third hit and block. OD version's second and third hit each drain 2.5% of opponent's heat gauge.

Gasenshou - can be DD-canceled at any time after the last hit. OD version drains 10% of opponent's heat gauge.

Garengeki - lv.1 version can be DD-canceled at any time from the first hit to the final frames. Last hit can be emergency teched. Lv.1 and lv.2 versions now cause slide down on midscreen and wall-bounce in the corner. The mash hits' damage is now 100 and doesn't prorate. Lv.3's last hit wall-bounces everywhere, the mash hits' damage is 100 (proration applies).

Ground Jakyou Messenga - now active for 2 more frames. P2 decreased to 70% (rather than 80%). Now blows back diagonally upwards, making it easier to follow up. Time to follow up decreased by 4 frames.

Midair Jakyou Messenga - P2 decreased to 70% (rather than 80%). The blowback is adjusted, making it easier to follow up.

OD Gouga Soutenjin - on counter-hit, the last hit ground-bounces slightly higher. Time to follow up increased by 4 frames.

Midair Gouga Soutenjin - can no longer be blocked in midair.

A Orochi Burensen - new move added. The input is 63214A. Can only be blocked low.

B Orochi Burensen - invincibility adjusted from 9 ~ super-flash 3 to super-flash ~ super-flash 3. The last hit causes slide down in midscreen and wall-bounce in the corner.

OD Ouja Zanrouga - now deals multiple hits on successful catch.

Jarin Renshouga (air) - new move added. The input is 214214D. Can't be blocked in midair (other than with barrier). OD version is unblockable.

Jarin Renshouga (ground) - the start-up is increased to 9 frames + superflash 22 (rather than 9 + superflash 13).

[Assassinine]

My personal thoughts on these changes

5C - I hope this doesnt negatively affect combo routes and timers

5D - I hope this allows air hit 5D 6D links in more situations

2D - Does this mean we have to take garbage air confirms if they get caught jump/backdashing?

6C - Farewell raw OD combos from CH 6C

6D - We may need to use 5D to land juggle 6Ds now?

Jagaku - looks like they wont be able to roll past us anymore

Garengeki - Midscreen followups from level 3, or simply better oki by forcing emergency tech? looks like no more raw OD after 22C, are we going to have any raw OD setups left besides FC 6B? Damage change looks like its intended to break the SMP resets damage output?

Messenga - seems like a nice QoL change, but i question its use if we are getting midscreen 22C followups

Air Messenga - Followups now? Yolo Messenga to beat anti airs

OD Soutenjin - Who honestly CHs with this? Extra 4 frames to followup is nice

Renshouga - That startup change worries me, both for combo applications and unblockable resets.

[Surf]

5C attack level nerf is so that 5C(1)~j.2D isn't gapless anymore. 5C(1)~j.2D was gapless while 2C~j.2D wasn't.

[TD]

thats unfortunate considering his lack of mixup but it should help relieve the scrubbiness of the string. it should only benefit dpers without ib, the rest would have to ib backdash. not particularly difficult to do, but he should still be fine.

[Surf]

I was expecting bigger buffs. What they nerfed hurt him enough to have the buffs balance them out. A lot of the changes have to be seen to see if their actual buffs or not.

[heavymetalmixer]

His 2B . . . still so minus on block . . .