[CP] Yuuki Terumi Gameplay Discussion

[TD]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMd1xtKfIzM

[Zeromus_X]

Why thank you.

[Stalf]

Dunno if someone posted it before me, but I think I found a safe jump in the corner.

After a 6D combo ender, just do dash jB. I think it beats every reversal except the ones with armor (mu's DP, tager's tech wheel...). If your opponent doesn't have a reversal or doesn't mash it on wakeup, with the same setup, you can then start messing with jC and j2D for a random number of overheads, depending on your timing.

If you want to go the mixup route, you can also 2A (w) jB. It will touch 1 or 2 hits depending on your timing, beats everything but reversals, and allows you to perform a tricky mixup..

[Guymam]

It's time. Terumi critique thread coming soon.

[Assassinine]

This is starting to annoy me

In the corner it feels like im forced to either cut my combos short at 6d or pay the Orochi meter tax to get basic oki.

236D is a fraudulent ender, a large chunk of the cast can forward roll past you unopposed. Some characters can be picked up by 2B after they have passed you, but this gives up corner pressure. Even then you have to commit to 2B if you want to prevent the roll, and 2B has pretty long recovery. OS backwards Soutenjin works, but still gives up corner, gives air tech, and is back to square one of spending 50 meter to get basic oki.

It feels like one of Terumi's primary sources of heat in combos, 236D, comes with the caveat that you have to spend 50 meter just to make it viable in the corner.

To add insult to injury, the entire cast can forward roll out of the corner if they survive Fuuenjin, making the super feel incredibly lackluster, as it can only be used midscreen, or when its sure to kill. To top it off, OD Soutenjin into OD Orochi beats OD Fuuenjin in damage in most scenarios.

It looks to me like as soon as someone realizes how free terumi is to forward rolls, you automatically lose like 25 meter per combo (omit 236D), use 50 meter and go into heat cooldown (236D - Orochi), or lose a large chunk of potential damage (omit Fuuenjin) just to make sure they cant roll out of the corner.

Am i missing something here?

[Zeromus_X]

Yeah, unless you're going to kill them with Fuuenjin, just end at 6D and do safejumps/meaty to catch roll tech (shoutouts to pulsr's video). You may not get as much meter as using 236D, but better to get some meter to save for mixups/Fuuenjin/whatever and guaranteed oki rather than letting them roll out for free. The next best thing seems to be ending in 6C which will still let you meaty to catch their roll and keep them in the corner, if you can't fit 6D into the combo or used it already. Even if you mess up the timing you can catch them as they roll behind you and combo into Massenga to put them back into the corner and end your combo with 6D to get most of the meter back.

Edited December 5, 2013 by Zeromus_X

[Assassinine]

In my short testing it seems this problem also exists with OD Orochi.

Im quite infatuated with the OD mechanic, especially with Terumi ignoring heat cooldown in OD, but OD Orochi and OD Fuuenjin both give a free escape from the corner, wut do? End in OD Soutenjin? Only do OD combos in corner if they will kill?

This character feels so awesome and fun but theres a few areas that just make me Orz

[TD]

absolutely end in od soutenjin. its probably the only way to get oki from a hard knockdown dd. maybe od messenga but l know for a fact it wont do as much damage. 50 heat wise, od soutenjin is the highest damage as well.

od soutenjin is also great combo filler; great damage and short animation not screwing with hit decay, so bonus points!

pretty much, normal combos for 50 meter and good damage, OD combos for 50+ meter with more damage, and a greater guarantee that you will reach the 50+meter threshold than normal combos, giving you more options. oki still exists. l wouldn't recommend still being in OD for pressure. blow it on a super for the damage, whatever you prefer.

[fogelstrom]

Stuff.

From my lab testing you should be able to do 5A, 5C on 236D. If people roll forward and you do 5A ASAP you catch them. Granted they get out of the corner but obviously you are going to Messenga them either before grabbing meter or after.

As for ending with Fuuenjin as others have said only when it's for the kill.

OD combos... I can't really complain not getting oki since I'm probably doing 6-7k dmg anyway... getting the dmg and superb oki... I haven't tested but I bet 5A ASAP would beat forward rolls after Fuuenjin/OD Orochi as well.

My biggest problem is that I can't catch back-rollers properly. I have NOTHING against it that isn't unsafe or forcing me to spend meter.

I played a Kagura the other day that obviously backrolled 100% midscreen because he wanted his SRK charge. So I'd thought I'd 6C that sh*t after 236D midscreen but it just missed... so back-rolling after 236D against Terumi midscreen seems almost 100% free. Obviously I could do Messenga and risk getting punished along with wasting 50% meter. Yay.

[TD]

yeah. essentially 236d resets the game back to neutral midscreen. l dont think its horrible. we cant pin them down but still have a small amount of + frames to work with. obviously dont ever end with this in the corner outside of a few situations.

if you -can- end in oki, l recommend it 95% of the time; though "oki" for terumi isnt very powerful, its really to continue pressure for a chance at another hit. (by "not powerful", l dont mean unsafe, it can be very safe - just not strong in terms of ambiguity.) OD or not, sacrificing damage (so long as it isn't too much) for a chance at good positioning, and to reset the meter cooldown and damage counter is a great opportunity.

also, him having 50 heat at the end of each combo is basically a must if the foe has more than half their life. because if the tables end up turning... even besides that, meter = damage,

[Assassinine]

@TD:

I know the wonders of OD soutenjin, i love having my combo damage shoot past 4000 within the first 5 hits of the combo, only to get all that meter back 2 seconds later. Its hilariously awesome that OD terumi ignores heat cooldown, even if his OD expires. Im thinking OD Fuuenjin might be worth doing even if it gives up corner, because it saps away precious meter from the opponent.

I like that terumi's OD thresholds are rather uniform, the threshold that allows you to get full combo into OD fuuenjin is the same threshold that allows you to reach 6D in a cancel OD combo. However, im also starting to realize that Terumi OD doesnt really care much about how much HP you have, because an early OD soutenjin alone is a large enough boost to make OD worth it.

-

@Fogel:

Terumi's run speed is gross, take advantage of it. I find if i know someone is going to backroll midscreen i can run in and

pickup with 2B

Depending on the character the 2b might catch them if they forward roll past you instead.

Edit: i cant get 5a or 5c to work after 236D in corner, maybe its character specific? Im using ragna. At best i can 2a after he passes, and messenga him back into the corner.

-

I have recently realized just how disgusting a starter 6C is. Midscreen 7k combos, Terumi plz...

Edited December 6, 2013 by Assassinine

[fogelstrom]

Don't forget that even if Soutenjin is a good move it has rather low P2 so the rest of the combo is hurt. It's still good but if you want to 100% optimize the lab is the way to go. But for anti-burst it's the only way to go rather then saving it to the end for Soutenjin+Orochi or just Fuuenjin

[Assassinine]

Soutenjin has bad P2? It really doesnt feel like it, good starters easily reach 5-7k using an early OD Soutenjin

Can you link to the frame data? Dustloop wiki doesnt seem to have it and i cant read moon runes.

What alternative do we really have for pumping damage into a combo, all the other super options either end the combo or just do less damage. His damage from normals doesnt seem very impressive, and it seems wasteful to just sit on 100 meter if you have it. I think its safe to assume that despite its bad P2, its still the best option for milking damage out of a combo.

What does Soutenjin have anything to do with anti-burst with regards to OD combos?

[fogelstrom]

A friend has calculated the Prorate values himself on all moves.

Soutenjin (normal) has P2 of 77,8%

Soutenjin OD has P2 of 65,9%

That is quite low...

But even with that value he has really no way of utilizing his OD better early on since you are going to get a ton of meter anyway. And Messenga whilst better P2 has 1k less dmg so... yeah well.

Well if you use Soutenjin early on you get lots of dmg quick rather then canceling into OD on like 6D at the end to get boosted dmg on supers only since you'd been doing a burstable combo all the way there.

[TD]

OD itself is anti burst. 'nuff said. you do OD soutenjin early in the combo and there isnt a reason to burst because youve already did the huge damage.

22c reverse prorates. every big combo needs it. the earlier the better.

and that's it. OD soutenjin is probably the only move comboable dd besides OD messenga which im not sure is comboable 100% of the time. im under the impression that the p2 is just average, and/or balanced, so he wont be doing hakumen level damage.

[Assassinine]

Yes, 22c is very nice, but that isnt what i meant, let me clarify.

Is there an alternative to OD soutenjin that gets better damage?

Fogel hinted that the apparently low P2 value of Soutenjin means that there are probably better pathways that get more damage. None of the other DDs provide similar damage while being able to continue the combo.

Simply ignoring OD Soutenjin (and thus the low P2) doesnt seem to be capable of reaching the same levels of damage, outside of something like doing 6b Fatal, 3c 22c Fuuenjin, which still does less damage than a OD Soutenjin combo that ignores 22c.

Edit: it seems to me that if you have the meter, its best to just incorporate OD Soutenjin and ignore the bad P2 value, as the damage it provides more than makes up for it

[TD]

thats what im saying. OD soutenjin is the pathway to maximum damage. nothing else beats it in combo filler damage, and the p2 is just to stop him from doing practical 9+k.

the 22c bit was just to say these two moves are what make his damage so high in OD.

[Assassinine]

My mistake.

The low P2 of Soutenjin doesnt really mean much when you consider how high the minimum damage is on his OD distortions

[Omortus]

Anyone have advice for linking 3C > 6D consistently in corner combos? Been trying to get this timing down for a while now. Still not sure how it works.

[TD]

Foe has to be high enough above ground, in a juggle state of course, in order for 3c 6d to connect. There arent a lot of normals that link into 6d, But in order for this to work you have to do 2c 5c 3c 6d as fast as possible

[fogelstrom]

If you are playing against Amane his hitbox is retarded when downed so 3C, 6D is even harder to hit. But it's as TD says. It's height dependant when hitting the 2C, 5C, 3C, 6D.

[pulsr]

If you are aware of your starter you can sneak in a D,6D. Like if it's 5B for sure you can do 5b,3c, stomppppppppp, 2c 5c 3c 5d 6d. I forget how much it hurts the scaling since apparently shoving in Ds in your combo lowers your damage quite a bit.

If you REALLY want to deal with back rolls you can 6c or super it. Sadly none of which can be done on a confirm. Though the best thing to do, is to put your self in a situation where you are able to punish a back roll with 5b. So that would be like.. after a 3c into nothing... I mean it too, no 3c 2d because if they delay tech you can get punished.

Edited December 9, 2013 by pulsr

[Justice7541]

If you are playing against Amane his hitbox is retarded when downed so 3C, 6D is even harder to hit. But it's as TD says. It's height dependant when hitting the 2C, 5C, 3C, 6D.

I don't think juggle 5c 3c 6d ever fails on anyone if you do it fast enough. Just do the last two inputs simultaneously and it'll work thanks to the buffer.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk

[fogelstrom]

Obviously it works on Amane, I didn't say it didn't. I just said that due to his hitbox it's the hardest on the entire cast to hit. You can't lax at all when doing it against him and it's just one of those things that ticks you off. Like the distance on Kagura after Messenga as well. Just another thing you need to remember that is character specific that might alter your timing.

[TD]

Can someone tell me how to neutral with this character? I feel like its the only thing I am truly missing, and even with heat im finding it very hard to get in on anyone with longer normals or zoning tools.

What would be better is a rundown on his better moves for neutral. Im just not grasping certain situations like air to air, air to ground, grounded situations... basically anything that has to do with him being safe while getting an approach. 5d is good but the options after arent stellar. and its almost purely horizontal. jd has a weird lag to it and its not always safe. 6c never seems to work well for getting in even on rc.

I'l take any advice or even some top matches to watch. Ive seen noze playint him not so well but I have hopes for the future. Any other good teru's? Thanks in advance