[CP] Terumi vs. Iron Tager

[Guymam]

Discuss the Terumi vs. Tager matchup here.

[Surf]

5D, 6C (with meter), and 6A are your friends.

[Starlight777]

5D, 6C (with meter), and 6A are your friends.

He can sledge 5D due to its projectile properties so use it with caution.

[Surf]

Thats where 6C (with meter) comes in, don't try to use it without meter though. Seriously. 6C blows up a lot of shit in this matchup in general. 5D >6C/Soutenjin/Messenga all blow up Sledge if you happen to react fast enough to it. 5D > 6C will CH him if he used B sledge but wont work on A sledge. Itll get you CH too if you reacted too slow. Messenga and Soutenjin are better options and will net you 3k and 2.4k respectively. But watch his meter too when you commit to any of these. In most matches I would zone with 5D and sometimes j.D (but not usually) and poke with normals in general while staying out of range mostly. Until I have enough meter to start 6C'ing safely. Watch out for 2D when you start using it though. The meter can also be used to Soutenjin if he happens to catch you. Messenga can help too. Make sure your movements on point also. I need to fight more Tagers but I don't feel the matchup is too bad. I was expecting a lot worse. Just watch out for the typical Tager stuff I guess. Try to always have meter after you get your first 50. Just takes chunks out of his health for poking/choosing poorly then go back to running away.

You can probably Renshouga him if he's trying to Voltic Charge too. If you react fast enough, his recovery is pretty long.

Edited November 2, 2013 by Surf

[Manta]

Just coming over here from Tagerland to ask if you'd ever use your reversal super in this matchup. Since it only counters High/mid strikes and not throws, I'm guessing you won't be using it much. Also, can you cancel or shorten the walk forward it does? Because well... being forced into walking into a waiting 720 even with no magnetism would be the funniest thing in the world.

[fogelstrom]

Just coming over here from Tagerland to ask if you'd ever use your reversal super in this matchup. Since it only counters High/mid strikes and not throws, I'm guessing you won't be using it much. Also, can you cancel or shorten the walk forward it does? Because well... being forced into walking into a waiting 720 even with no magnetism would be the funniest thing in the world.

I'd only use it on Gadget Finger if the Tager more or less always used 5A after it. But I'd probably always prefer to do reversal Soutejin/623B any day.

You can't do anything when activated besides pray to god the person hits a high/mid attack really, hail mary of counters.

For this matchup I can also let people know that 6B eats 360A and 360B. Even if Tager fully charges 360A 6B will still FC from when me and a friend tried things out. Funny as hell. 720 can just be held longer and eats it though </3

[Manta]

I'd only use it on Gadget Finger if the Tager more or less always used 5A after it. But I'd probably always prefer to do reversal Soutejin/623B any day.

You can't do anything when activated besides pray to god the person hits a high/mid attack really, hail mary of counters.

For this matchup I can also let people know that 6B eats 360A and 360B. Even if Tager fully charges 360A 6B will still FC from when me and a friend tried things out. Funny as hell. 720 can just be held longer and eats it though </3

Not sure what you mean by fully charging 360A. It doesn't autograb, and the invuln on it ends the moment you extend the startup by holding A. If anything, you get the best results with it by not holding it at all. 360B autograbs, as does 720 and air driver, so that's where some confusion can arise from. Does 6B have some throw invuln or something?

I also notice that not only is the reversal super bad, it's really bad. I can't help but compare it to hakumen's equivalent, with its high/low/projectile/crossover block and much quicker recovery as opposed to high only with a week-long recovery.

[fogelstrom]

Terumi has upper and lower but not full body invul on 6B. It just cleanly beat both 360A and 360B.

[Manta]

Terumi has upper and lower but not full body invul on 6B. It just cleanly beat both 360A and 360B.

High/low Invuln shouldn't be preventing throws unless it has that separately too.

[fogelstrom]

Well go ahead and try it yourself in training. No point in arguing. 6B blows up 360s. Whatever the reason I'm happy. I assume it has throw invul.

[Manta]

Well go ahead and try it yourself in training. No point in arguing. 6B blows up 360s. Whatever the reason I'm happy. I assume it has throw invul.

Probably does then, just add it to the list of "moves that have properties that they don't look like they have". Now 5C, that I can understand being throw-proof since he goes airborne.

So how about dem projectiles then? Loads of Terumi's moves seem to be accompanied by snake effects, but it's tricky to tell if that's just visual appeal or it's actually a projectile attack.

[fogelstrom]

5D, 2D, j.D are all projectiles and you can sledge them. 2D can't be canceled but 5D can be canceled to 6C for example so you can't just mash it freely.

[Manta]

5D, 2D, j.D are all projectiles and you can sledge them. 2D can't be canceled but 5D can be canceled to 6C for example so you can't just mash it freely.

Mashing sledge freely feels like a bad idea anyway with that 6B available (Which feels like another Ragna 5B or 5C in terms of free pokes). Personally I feel the matchup is more a game of waiting for you to come to me and beating you with Tager's superior normal moves.

[pulsr]

5a, 6a 2b or j2d

[WSUNLIMITED]

Umm ya know 6b is throw inv and low inv. But upper body can be hit. 6c is extremely useful to me against tagger trying to sledge harass. On counter hit you can follow it up without meter with a dash and 5b easily. As well as all other characters though I feel that 6c is only good against tagger and valkenhyn. Maybe bangs overdrive too

[WSUNLIMITED]

With the update you can still follow up 6c on counter hit with 2b without meter.

[heavymetalmixer]

With the update you can still follow up 6c on counter hit with 2b without meter.

 

The same goes for 22C.

[AllyOfJustice]

Someone in the Tager vs Terumi thread were complaining about how Arksys hates Tager. I actually think Tager has the bigger advantage here. When I use Tager against Terumis (I never even trained with Tager) I almost always win easily.
 

[Don Blow Jon]

Someone in the Tager vs Terumi thread were complaining about how Arksys hates Tager. I actually think Tager has the bigger advantage here. When I use Tager against Terumis (I never even trained with Tager) I almost always win easily.

Those Terumi's must not be abusing 5A and 6A in this match up. A 5 frame jab that leads into a 50/50 and an anti air that can both be used to mix up and keep up the pressure to no end, coupled with Terumi's run speed and drives to keep his distance make this match up annoying for Tager, not Hazama levels of stupid but damn I feel bad for the Tager player who has to face a competent Terumi in a tournament match.

[Dawn of Musou]

6B can also stuff 360 and 720, same for 5C since the 2nd hit has Terumi in the air.

[Don Blow Jon]

6B can also stuff 360 and 720, same for 5C since the 2nd hit has Terumi in the air.

Considering those moves are also used 100% of the match during pressure, Tager has to really work just to get Terumi off him so yeah, bad matchup.

[fogelstrom]

This matchup is anything but bad for Tager imo.

 

He doesn't need to care about j.D, 5D or 2D really. Even if they are annoying you are not gonna wear him down with those moves trying to keeping him out and he doesn't care all that much about your meter either.

 

You can praise 6B all you want in this matchup and I can say it looks really good on paper but in reality I'm not having much success with it. The timing has to be impecable not to be grabbed anyway. It's all in the frames!

 

Also Tager 5A stuffs 6B.

 

Terumi has below zero options after gadget finger. If you are hit by GF you have more or less lost the match unless you get a  lucky guess or have 100% meter for 623B RC.

 

For the most part Tager's have stopped backdashing on wakeup but outside of 5A mash I have not find any specific os to counter this with better reward.

 

Overall Tager's hp and "unfair" rewards for mashing makes this matchup difficult for Terumi. One combo/grab to gadget finger and I can basically drop the stick ^^

[Don Blow Jon]

This matchup is anything but bad for Tager imo.

 

He doesn't need to care about j.D, 5D or 2D really. Even if they are annoying you are not gonna wear him down with those moves trying to keeping him out and he doesn't care all that much about your meter either.

 

You can praise 6B all you want in this matchup and I can say it looks really good on paper but in reality I'm not having much success with it. The timing has to be impecable not to be grabbed anyway. It's all in the frames!

 

Also Tager 5A stuffs 6B.

 

Terumi has below zero options after gadget finger. If you are hit by GF you have more or less lost the match unless you get a  lucky guess or have 100% meter for 623B RC.

 

For the most part Tager's have stopped backdashing on wakeup but outside of 5A mash I have not find any specific os to counter this with better reward.

 

Overall Tager's hp and "unfair" rewards for mashing makes this matchup difficult for Terumi. One combo/grab to gadget finger and I can basically drop the stick ^^

 

You raise a good point, completely forgot to account for all that.

 

I need more experience with the match up myself but I believe it will just go down to whoever can get the first hit or keep the pressure up. Terumi can just back off after getting a lucky hit with 5A and j.D until Tager makes a mistake trying to go in, or Tager gets knockdown into GF and well you obviously know the rest xD. It does sound unfair that we have to put in so much work compared to the Tager player but 5A and 6A (mostly 5A) really help in this match up to open them up and get them to the corner, but other than that I we do have to find an os specifically for a better reward on punishing his backdash. 

[fogelstrom]

6A is good in this matchup but you can't overrate it. Eventually you'll get blown up by j.2C. And getting j.2C FC into 4,5k+ from Tager can ruin 30-50 seconds on the clock for you instantly.

 

Sadly enough most of my experience with Terumi vs Tager is online and that makes for unfair conditions mostly in Tager's favor. For the most part I just switch up to my Azrael because seing that GF "mixup" being completely useless by his backdash wakes me warm and fuzzy inside.

 

I'd say this matchup would probably be at worst 6-4 for Tager but more realisticly in offline higher level play 5.5-4.5 if not even 5-5. So it is indeed winnable but small things can turn things around for Tager easily.

 

Doing 6C on Tager wakeup if you have 50% if they tend to backdash alot is an idea. I do it sometimes to catch backdashes easy. If you have 100% meter you can always RC, OD for heavy stuff

 

Would be cool to see some stuff of the few high dan ranked Terumi players against Tagers such as Grandia, Barrell and UNDER.

[TD]

Probably more in the 5.5 range. While not entirely uneven, this is definitely a match where terumi's flaws are clear.