Luminos564 Posted February 10, 2014 Posted February 10, 2014 Banv stops being a joke dude. Just because we know he isn't being a joke anymore, doesn't mean the rest of the BB-verse doesn't still see him as such. Besides, I lumped him with Taokaka who most certainly ain't someone who you'd want pleading your case in any way, shape or form. I dunno, Kagura was the only one who didn't think Ragna was dead; I don't think he'd try to stop Tsubaki, but give her some insight. Rachel strikes me as someone who wouldn't let her personal feelings get in the way of what needs to be done; She undoubtedly cares about Ragna, but if he's gotta die, she wouldn't hesitate. Hah, Ragna really is in Noel's position. Does Kagura know the whole story though? Then again, I suppose it matters little since I figure there's naught he would be able to do to change Tsubaki's mind. Yeah, it's why I said having Rachel mention anything is a terrible idea. Her immediate and only solution to an obviously pissed off Mu-12 was "Kill her". She was wrong about that and now that she's become an "actor" there's even less of a reason to do anything she has to say. That aside what did you mean in the bolded as "being in Noel's position"?
BlackYakuzu94 Posted February 10, 2014 Posted February 10, 2014 What you said, her first solution to Mu-12 was to kill her, and Ragna took a third option. Now she's saying Ragna needs to die, so maybe Noel will find a third option.
Shinhwa Posted February 10, 2014 Posted February 10, 2014 Kagura actually seem to care about Ragna, Noel and Jin a lot in a serious way.
Malcopunch Posted February 10, 2014 Posted February 10, 2014 (edited) What you said, her first solution to Mu-12 was to kill her, and Ragna took a third option. Now she's saying Ragna needs to die, so maybe Noel will find a third option. That is most likely. Though i am not sure if Noel wouldn't hesitate to use Tsubaki to kill Racheal..i am pretty sure Noel is not a big fan of Racheal Well Ragna quits being an asshole now and Jin is less of an ass even towards Noel he tone it down a bit.Pretty much character development change them Ragna did had a hidden heart it's just that his revenge and destruction was in the way and when he got rid of it he pretty much took a level in kindness realize the good qualities within him. Also About the story of the world the girl that writes the book is Amatertasu stands The book being the master unit and the girl inside well the writer. Also the "girl" who is a monster is still unknown. I seen it from a wikia comments about it. Jin to be honest hasn't got a lot of charcter devlopment besides his relationship with Tsubaki ( Who is another charcter i dislike) and him become less of a asshole..it is still a worse charcter than Ragna by a long shot..his arrogance is going to get himself killed ( Which i hope) Edited February 10, 2014 by Chaoschao222 No reason to double post that soon.
kibakirain Posted February 10, 2014 Posted February 10, 2014 That is most likely. Though i am not sure if Noel wouldn't hesitate to use Tsubaki to kill Racheal..i am pretty sure Noel is not a big fan of Racheal Noel's not that type of girl who would wish for someone to die just because she dislikes him/her.(save Hazama)
Zedar90 Posted February 10, 2014 Posted February 10, 2014 That is most likely. Though i am not sure if Noel wouldn't hesitate to use Tsubaki to kill Racheal..i am pretty sure Noel is not a big fan of Racheal Jin to be honest hasn't got a lot of charcter devlopment besides his relationship with Tsubaki ( Who is another charcter i dislike) and him become less of a asshole..it is still a worse charcter than Ragna by a long shot..his arrogance is going to get himself killed ( Which i hope) Noel is very "big fan" of Rachel after Rachel taught Noel to get back and to control her Murakumo.
BlackYakuzu94 Posted February 10, 2014 Posted February 10, 2014 Yea, she respects her a lot more in CP. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
BlackYakuzu94 Posted February 10, 2014 Posted February 10, 2014 Jin to be honest hasn't got a lot of charcter devlopment besides his relationship with Tsubaki ( Who is another charcter i dislike) and him become less of a asshole..it is still a worse charcter than Ragna by a long shot..his arrogance is going to get himself killed ( Which i hope) You realize Ragna is arguably as big an asshole right? And this is coming from someone who likes him. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Toxin45 Posted February 10, 2014 Posted February 10, 2014 You realize Ragna is arguably as big an asshole right? And this is coming from someone who likes him. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Well in all honesty Ragna as I said losses all that assholeness in CP and it just took not using his grimore and giving up revenge to make that happen.He just needs to learn how to save people from a different way.
BlackYakuzu94 Posted February 10, 2014 Posted February 10, 2014 I was speaking in general :\ Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Toxin45 Posted February 10, 2014 Posted February 10, 2014 I was speaking in general :\ Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Well so was I.
sg1989 Posted February 10, 2014 Posted February 10, 2014 Not just Terumi, but NOL in general, even the casual workers who have nothing to do with the crap he was put through. While it's understandable he does what he does, he still had the CHOICE, and with choice comes consequences. Yeah, you and me would probably do the same, and it would, again, be understandable, but an eye for an eye and the world will go Tsubaki. ok, ragna killed many people not justify this point, but, seriously, the NOL and Tsubaki probably also destroyed many innocent life ''in the name of the justice''. The Vermillion and Linhua story are two examples, the first relegated because critic the bad actions of the NOL, the second, hate the NOL because killed his parents. Hazama and relius are not the only ones who have performed worst actions to the inside of the NOL, and Tsubaki and Ragna are just two faces of the same coin....but this just my opinion PS. sorry for my bad english
Malcopunch Posted February 10, 2014 Posted February 10, 2014 Noel is very "big fan" of Rachel after Rachel taught Noel to get back and to control her Murakumo. Woops my mistake..i was thinking about CT and CS..My Bad. Mind you Noel would choose Ragna if she had to choose between saving Ragna and keeping Racheal alive if she has to choose
Zedar90 Posted February 10, 2014 Posted February 10, 2014 Woops my mistake..i was thinking about CT and CS..My Bad. Mind you Noel would choose Ragna if she had to choose between saving Ragna and keeping Racheal alive if she has to choose I don't know if I read that correctly but, there is no need to choose between Ragna and Rachel, Rachel must be killed after Ragna "dies". And if it comes to the point where Rachel must be killed, I would believe that Noel would stop Tsubaki from killing Rachel and try to stop the "Evil" herself instead.
BlackYakuzu94 Posted February 10, 2014 Posted February 10, 2014 ok, ragna killed many people not justify this point, but, seriously, the NOL and Tsubaki probably also destroyed many innocent life ''in the name of the justice''. The Vermillion and Linhua story are two examples, the first relegated because critic the bad actions of the NOL, the second, hate the NOL because killed his parents. Hazama and relius are not the only ones who have performed worst actions to the inside of the NOL, and Tsubaki and Ragna are just two faces of the same coin....but this just my opinion PS. sorry for my bad english It should be noted, the NOL is the way they are because of Terumi and Relius, soooo... In any case, I get what you're saying, but it still doesn't change anything Ragna did...which was the point.
kylehyde Posted February 10, 2014 Posted February 10, 2014 (edited) It should be noted, the NOL is the way they are because of Terumi and Relius, soooo... In any case, I get what you're saying, but it still doesn't change anything Ragna did...which was the point. Nor does it change anything the NOL did either. But I'm not trying to add or take away anything from your point, I'm just saying my view. I've always viewed the NOL like the evil empire in Star Wars. Who cares if a couple of storm troopers get killed by Obi Wan or Yoda. Rachel must be killed after Ragna "dies". Are you saying no matter what Rachel needs to be killed? Edited February 10, 2014 by kylehyde
BlackYakuzu94 Posted February 10, 2014 Posted February 10, 2014 Nor does it change anything the NOL did either. But I'm not trying to add or take away anything from your point, I'm just saying my view. I've always viewed the NOL like the evil empire in Star Wars. Who cares if a couple of storm troopers get killed by Obi Wan or Yoda. See, that kinda creates some moral dissonance; Ok, so the hero slaughters nameless mooks left and right, and we're just supposed to ignore that? I mean, they're mooks for a reason, but not enough series really call attention to whenever this happens. I know the NOL have a long list of dirty laundry, but so do the heroes. Its really hard to call moral superiority for either, Its kinda refreshing that the games call attention to it.
Toxin45 Posted February 10, 2014 Posted February 10, 2014 See, that kinda creates some moral dissonance; Ok, so the hero slaughters nameless mooks left and right, and we're just supposed to ignore that? I mean, they're mooks for a reason, but not enough series really call attention to whenever this happens. I know the NOL have a long list of dirty laundry, but so do the heroes. Its really hard to call moral superiority for either, Its kinda refreshing that the games call attention to it. Well until Cp and yeah but at least they maid amends to that and yeah they might have gotten overboard but they finally got past that and the nol hot retired so it's not entirely a downer
Shinhwa Posted February 10, 2014 Posted February 10, 2014 It's not really a matter of "must" kill Rachel. It's just an option we know so far. Current two options about the berserk Ragna: 1. Kill him before he dies naturally 2. Kill Rachel if Jin or Tsubaki fails to kill Ragna before he dies a natural death As Zedar said several times before, there are other options possible where no one has to die. It's just that they haven't been mentioned in the game. The theories and concept exists though.
Luminos564 Posted February 10, 2014 Posted February 10, 2014 I know the NOL have a long list of dirty laundry, but so do the heroes. Its really hard to call moral superiority for either, Its kinda refreshing that the games call attention to it. Pretty much. It's just a lot easier to hate the NOL since, for the majority of the games, the focus is on the two of its most disgusting members: Hazama and Relius. With them around, they make any mook-killing act that Ragna commits down the line all the more acceptable. For that matter, Kokonoe and Sector 7 aren't much better either what with stockpiling nukes, creating (through negligence) Arakune and unleashing Azrael upon the world. Ultimately, it isn't a question of "who isn't an asshole" but more like "who is the asshole that'll screw me over the least".
Toxin45 Posted February 11, 2014 Posted February 11, 2014 Pretty much. It's just a lot easier to hate the NOL since, for the majority of the games, the focus is on the two of its most disgusting members: Hazama and Relius. With them around, they make any mook-killing act that Ragna commits down the line all the more acceptable. For that matter, Kokonoe and Sector 7 aren't much better either what with stockpiling nukes, creating (through negligence) Arakune and unleashing Azrael upon the world. Ultimately, it isn't a question of "who isn't an asshole" but more like "who is the asshole that'll screw me over the least". well both seven and nol got owned and Izanami gives up terumi and relius also kokone gets toned down and most of the good guys got at least better and Izanami being the villain by wanting to kill em all good evil or neutral
kylehyde Posted February 11, 2014 Posted February 11, 2014 (edited) It's not really a matter of "must" kill Rachel. It's just an option we know so far. Current two options about the berserk Ragna: 1. Kill him before he dies naturally 2. Kill Rachel if Jin or Tsubaki fails to kill Ragna before he dies a natural death As Zedar said several times before, there are other options possible where no one has to die. It's just that they haven't been mentioned in the game. The theories and concept exists though. The thing that sounds odd to me is if killing Rachel can end this entire thing, then why not just do that and forget about fighting Ragna. It's a lot less of a hassle for the heroes and probably a lot safer too. She's already pretty much given them the go ahead to kill her. But of course the very fact that both Tsubaki and Jin want to bathe in the blood of Ragna the Bloodedge leaves that option pretty much mute. Edited February 11, 2014 by kylehyde
BlackYakuzu94 Posted February 11, 2014 Posted February 11, 2014 Pretty much. It's just a lot easier to hate the NOL since, for the majority of the games, the focus is on the two of its most disgusting members: Hazama and Relius. With them around, they make any mook-killing act that Ragna commits down the line all the more acceptable. For that matter, Kokonoe and Sector 7 aren't much better either what with stockpiling nukes, creating (through negligence) Arakune and unleashing Azrael upon the world. Ultimately, it isn't a question of "who isn't an asshole" but more like "who is the asshole that'll screw me over the least". That's true, we don't really know a lot about the NOL beyond the people we've shown to really sympathize as much as we can with...well virtually everyone against them. The thing that sounds odd to me is if killing Rachel can end this entire thing, then why not just do that and forget about fighting Ragna. It's a lot less of a hassle for the heroes and probably a lot safer too. She's already pretty much given them the go ahead to kill her. But of course the very fact that both Tsubaki and Jin want to bathe in the blood of Ragna the Bloodedge leaves that option pretty much mute. Gotta have dat Drama mang. Although yea, ignoring that fact, why don't they just kill Rachel if it'll end this entire thing?....Granted, I don't either her or Ragna to do die, but still....
Master Of Chaos Posted February 11, 2014 Posted February 11, 2014 Because Rachel owns Tsukuyomi, is in charge of protecting Ammy, and currently one of the few things really standing between Izanami and her world of death. I don't know how the transfer of that would work, but I don't think it would be something just anyone could use.
Toxin45 Posted February 11, 2014 Posted February 11, 2014 That's true, we don't really know a lot about the NOL beyond the people we've shown to really sympathize as much as we can with...well virtually everyone against them. Gotta have dat Drama mang. Although yea, ignoring that fact, why don't they just kill Rachel if it'll end this entire thing?....Granted, I don't either her or Ragna to do die, but still.... Well as I said NOL got reformed by Homura being in charge and It's because of Izanami probably used Terumi to found Sector Seven and The NOl against each other and of course the third game Kokonoe got unemployed and Terumi and Relius are defeated. But the main problem is Izanami now so almost all the good guys got a little bit better just now focus on Izanami and Ragna.
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