AC Jam Strategy/Play Style Discussion

[Bluewindz]

Wanna be a tension whore?

6P,5HS, 6HS, 6P, 5HS, 6HS, dash and repeat.

Most people know that if you instant block the 6HS, you can throw. Watch for the flash, if you do not see it, then you can continue, but if you see it, do the HS follow up which will push your opponent far away.

IAD 214K, IAD 214K, 236S-S, IAD214K, mix it up.

Most people would try to anti-air you, but you can vary the height and length of execute of the Gekirin. A low enough Gekirin is a good feint. Variable distances could mean cross-up, and if you suspect the opponent will anti air, execute it at the earliest time possible and you can clash or hit the outer edges of their hit box for a counter. The other option your opponent has is to wait and see. If you show them a 60% tensionless combo off of counter-hit Gekirin, people would be afraid.

[Digital Watches]

Er, this is probably well known and used, or just not that useful... But I like to use 5H-6K-5H in blockstrings sometimes to avoid 6H getting IB'd/Slashbacked. If you get a sense for when an opponent will get greedy and try to SB 6H, you can trip them up for a combo that way and still have your blockstring if they don't do it.

[xenophobian]

sorry bluewindz, but both the pressure strings you posted would get me horribly raped in my competition, most of the guys slashback 6HS after the third 5HS hit (solutions for this: 6HS on first or second hit, implement 6K, sometimes a HS followup after 6HS counters them EVEN if they slashbacked) and trying a second iAD gekirin or 236S~S after the first blocked one is just suicidal, most of the time i just block or back out if gekirin gets blocked i know you just wanna post some tricks that may confuse your opponent once or twice because they are unexpected options, but they are just no good advice for new players because they are so unsafe

[Bluewindz]

@Digital Watches: Which string and to which post are you referring to? I'd love to answer, but I am confused, but I'll clear it up later in this post, but I'll assume the 2nd post. If you are referring to the 2nd post, then yes, the string is very well known...and it is extremely useful, that string is the Bread and Butter of Jam's ground combo. Whether it is useful or not, that's why this thread is here, to discuss the pros and cons of a strategy. In that post, instead of thinking about it as a combo, we were looking at that from the point of a string that builds tension.

@Xenophobian: I think you were referring to the second post, yeah I know those strings are not useful in most situations, but I just wanted to through my thought process out there for people to read and enjoy. If people are slash-backing the 6HS, what about the variable HS follow-up? What about a RC after the 6HS or HS follow-up? But as for the 6P string, I just wanted to make a point, but in actual in game usage, at most is 2 repetitions with mix-ups of ending it with just one repetition of a HS follow-up or not doing the follow-up and doing something else which instills the suspicion that allows for the 2 repetitions.

Sad no one saw my first post....either that or do not want to respond to it...LOL (had a Gundam reference in it).

Moving forward: I would encourage people to support their claims and/or take an idea and run with it for the benefit of the community. ie: "I agree/disagree with this because a, b, c..reasons" or "building on that idea, what if..".

New topic: What would you do to your opponent if you suddenly had +15 frames (RC 6HS)?

[excelence]

throw / delayed 2s / cross up fake + throw again (;^_^)a btw i don't like the idea of 6hs(rc) ... if it didn't guarantee me win a round, there's much random stuff i can do with 50% tension and deal lots more damage

[1muvwndr]

New topic: What would you do to your opponent if you suddenly had +15 frames (RC 6HS)?

Sorry Bluewindz, nothing personal, but this is another of those situations (like 4x2D FRC, 100% tension + cards...) that will never happen in a tournament match. If someone would see a RC on 6HS they would simply wait and see what happens next, even if they IBed it. The worst case scenario (if they are somewhat skilled and don't get hit by a random overhead) is that they will get thrown. And by the words of my friend, no big deal, Jam's throw isn't that scary. Also, if I had 50% or more tension, I'd sure not waste it to RC a 6HS. There are many chars that can put you under heavy pressure and I'd rather save the tension for defense (whether DA or FD). Over all that, 6HS RC and it's +15 frames are IMO basically the same as 2P and it's +4 frames. You are in their face either way, you have fast moves that don't need the 15 frames of advantage to come out and any slower move (TK gekirin, 5D) can be blocked on reaction from +4 or +15. The only difference is that the opponent can't act a bit longer if he's at -15. And as I said before, most players will just wait and see what happens next if they feel they are at a big disadvantage.

[Bluewindz]

Sorry Bluewindz, nothing personal, but this is another of those situations (like 4x2D FRC, 100% tension + cards...) that will never happen in a tournament match. If someone would see a RC on 6HS they would simply wait and see what happens next, even if they IBed it. The worst case scenario (if they are somewhat skilled and don't get hit by a random overhead) is that they will get thrown. And by the words of my friend, no big deal, Jam's throw isn't that scary. Also, if I had 50% or more tension, I'd sure not waste it to RC a 6HS. There are many chars that can put you under heavy pressure and I'd rather save the tension for defense (whether DA or FD). Over all that, 6HS RC and it's +15 frames are IMO basically the same as 2P and it's +4 frames. You are in their face either way, you have fast moves that don't need the 15 frames of advantage to come out and any slower move (TK gekirin, 5D) can be blocked on reaction from +4 or +15. The only difference is that the opponent can't act a bit longer if he's at -15. And as I said before, most players will just wait and see what happens next if they feel they are at a big disadvantage.

I think throwing this out there can win a round. Say you are at the end of your block string, you can throw out 6HS RC it and run back in. If you are close to them, like 1muvwndr said, most people would freeze, and I think that's a good thing. Having people freeze and having them do the "wait and see" response gives Jam an opportunity and priority to attack. You can put them in a fuzzy guard situation. Jam's throw is scary because if FRCed, it can lead to at least 40% life.

I might save it for better uses depending on my life bar. But if I am one combo away from death, I will go for broke. Sure, there may better moves to RC, but depends on the situation. Going for a specific win scenario is not being flexible. Also why save your tension when there may not be another opportunity to use it. The guard bar that Jam has most likely built up will receive another opportunity to be put to good use.

Any comment with my post on j.2k (7 posts before this one)? I'd like to get people's opinion on it.

[1muvwndr]

Well anyway I'd rather learn the setups shown in this video. They are a lot more reliable & useful in general situations. They are sure a lot harder to learn but it is sure worth it.

j.2K after 2D is sure a good option but I'll try to have some tension for an eventual RC. The problem is that you must be in their faces to connect it (=short string, better from a dash, so that they cannot push you away with FD).

[xenophobian]

the j.2K post is very good, some information i didn´t know with all the frame talk, i´d like to add that you want to have 50% tension when you use this move, otherwise it´s just too risky, and linking 2P is just too hard to do consistantly. so what you do is RC j.2K and go into ground loop 6P 5HS 6HS xN, unfortunately it´ll only do around 150dmg. and if they block you can airdash in with 623K or j.P j.HS and continue pressure. i also use this move for a air to ground option, the short pause can make an antiair whiff and the move also alters your trajektory in unexpected ways aaaaaand if done correctly in can lead to ugly 1hit crossups that let you followup tensionless (check me vs. koji jam to see this in matchplay) the vid 1movewonder posted has some nice setups, the 236P HS 214K RC airdash ones are especially brutal, good card to have in your sleeve when low on health but high on tension

[Bluewindz]

Controlling the flow of the match is very important for Jam since she does not have the range. When your opponent reacts to your moves, that is when you have control. From there, you control the pace of the match. Feinting also establishes control. A good one is when you are attacking, you do IAD 236P to drop down to the ground.

[ky0n01]

That's what I mean. You don't need to have world class experience to contribute, because everyone can make a contribution no matter how big or small.

jam can evade projectiles by using 236S~P how's that ?

wow this thread is long, and full of paragraphs..

and do you still need a volunteer? id be glad to help

[Bluewindz]

jam can evade projectiles by using 236S~P how's that ?

wow this thread is long, and full of paragraphs..

and do you still need a volunteer? id be glad to help

Building off of what ky0n01 mentioned, you can use that against Dizzy's projectile setups, Testament's traps.

I don't really have time to start topics or provide analysis, but I can reply to posts. If you're reading this post, you're probably looking for ways to win. If you are looking for ways to win, take the zero system and run with it. Might take you over 50+ hours of practice to get the timing down, but why not? If you are a player that has run into a wall in regards to improvement, most of you might be at the stage of best practices or character specific tactics. Can you do both versions of an air mixup RC? the ground route is easy, but air dashing after a RC requires some practice. I think ZS mixed in with limiters is a way to go. Also just doing a setup well. Like 2D into followups. Doing simple things well.

[1muvwndr]

236S-P has above knee invulnerability, can get through a load of things. You can be thrown out of it. If you have 25% tension it becomes a decent mixup with FB puffball since opponents usually wait for your FBPB to come out on the first chance ^^. They tend to play a bit safer when Jam has 25% tension (I wonder why?) so that's where you can throw them out of 236S-P. Some will argue that Jam can be thrown on reaction out of it. I agree but the opponent must expect it, few can do it really on reaction. P.S.: IAD gekirin crossup after 236S-P, worth a shot or not?

[excelence]

with constant practice Jam actualy will got thrown everytime she try to 236s~p the same theory like Anji Fuujin~k :p

[ky0n01]

err i was just kiddin when i said that.. lol 236P frc: far slash> 2D> 236p frc> * if they burst* > punish em i know its a waste of tension corner pressure: farslash> 2d> 236P frc> jH>~ 2k or j2k for fuzzy guard i only use this move to show off though.. but i still use this when i am out of secret moves.

[xenophobian]

the 236P FRC can be a dangerous weapon combined with the third hit of 5HS when the opp. is in th corner. either do the HS meaty on their wakeup so they block only the third hit or when you pressure them and they are stupid enough NOT to FD you 5HS...cancel the last blocked hit of 5HS, delay your j.HS a little bit and you have an evil corner crossup. most preferred if you have a K charge in stock so you can j.HS c.S 2D 236S~K 236K 236S~HS -> wall loop (you can substitute c.S 2D with 6P(1) 5HS(3) if you are not so firm with 2D 236S~K). with no charge you can just go into standart tensionles groundloop: j.HS [6P(1) 5HS(3) 6HS]xn 2D i wouldn´t waste the tension on burst punishes

[Diveman]

Im having troubles at pulling the kenroukakku that goes down, I know the motion but its really hard. is ther any shorcuts or another way to do it?

[Bluewindz]

Im having troubles at pulling the kenroukakku that goes down, I know the motion but its really hard.

is ther any shorcuts or another way to do it?

Lots of practice. Vary the input speed until you get the timing right and then practice the input timing.

[excelence]

i find 9623 is the easiest way to pull it off, and btw it's easier tham doing iad back gekirin (>_>) try to practice the air dash kenrou first before iad kenrou as it's easier to see the timming

[Hi-C]

Has anyone tried doing Bakushu~S/H followed up by her Geki Saishinshou? I found that it acts as a major surprise to people. Ok, I'm sure a bunch of you have done this. Or not. I won't go into detail if everyone does this.

[Bluewindz]

Has anyone tried doing Bakushu~S/H followed up by her Geki Saishinshou? I found that it acts as a major surprise to people.

Ok, I'm sure a bunch of you have done this. Or not. I won't go into detail if everyone does this.

I never tried that.

[Diveman]

Has anyone tried doing Bakushu~S/H followed up by her Geki Saishinshou? I found that it acts as a major surprise to people.

Ok, I'm sure a bunch of you have done this. Or not. I won't go into detail if everyone does this.

mm no ive never done that. I use geki saishinshou as wake up sometimes or when punishing some whiffs. still you should do something that keeps you safe. Because if the block it...

[Hi-C]

Well, they have to -block- Bakushu~S/H. You also have to put the input really fast for the following. I like calling her G. Saishinshou (overdrive) the dragon pillar so don't be confused if I call it that. They block, upon the impact you input the commands for Dragon Pillar, you have a chance of hitting them depending on what happens next. This also varies for each character fought against. A) If They try to attack with 6-Anything to move forward. Both overdrive hits should connect. When Jam's overdrive activates I find the opponents are usually about mid-frame starting or half-way through the attack altogether. This works VERY well against Johnny's 6H or 5H or 2D. I haven't seen anyone try anything different to counter so it always lands. Can someone try an S attack and see what happens? Also works somewhat against Ky's 6K - 50/50 of hitting or get hit. This has almost no chance against May (in any case I've tried), Faust (depending on what he does), Sol on the occasion fails, Robo-Ky (unless its 5H), Slayer (vanish vanish vanish), and Axl. B) Block or backdash. If they block with normal, you should get at least one hit. Haven't had someone normal block me yet. If its FD, you gonna land one hit with pushback. Nothing else. Depending on who your fighting, your a sitting duck after this. Backdash=wasted tension and a free combo to you, but if they panick, well they're probably gonna want to stay away. C) Standstill.... who the hell would stand still? Free double hit for you. D) You pressure them into a corner and they're gonna jump. If you time it right, you should land one if not both hits. Haven't had anyone tech out of this yet. They can probably tech and go overhead afterwards, but I've yet to see it. Its really a gamble, but if it lands, its really nice. Otherwise go with her giant ki blast overdrive. Yeah diveman, I agree with you on doing something safe. But I tried this at Otakon and people were surprised. And would usually take the hit. Not saying it would work all the time, but if you want to pop something out from under the hat and know whats going on, it could definitely help.

[Bluewindz]

The dragon pillar (I like that name) surprise could be helpful. We should definitely start a topic on ways to land the dragon pillar attack, and then FC the thing for 80%-95% life bar. Most likely used for whiff punishment. The only attack I can think of is Sol's whiffed dragon punches. There a window of opportunity when he lands, you run in and execute the command, letting the stopping motion slide you into position.

[Subzan]

Quick Question: I can't seem to link 6H to 6P. Can anyone tell me when exactly in the animation you need to do the inputs?