[CP] ν-13 Gameplay Discussion

[BloodWolF]

Like Toan said, there are some matchups where you'll feel more comfortable in one form or the other. I like switching through them and using them both evenly as it not only changes what the opponent has to deal with and learn, but it keeps the matches more fresh and enjoyable for me as well. Just keep at it and you'll see yourself switching more often.

[Legacy Edge]

Aren't there any tips or suggestions on the general idea?

Cause in every situation i find myself i think that dia is better.

Tried some matches today, did some damage in dia then i said ok, lets try for a big combo.

>Switch to luna

>proceed to get wrecked all over the place

[mAc Chaos]

doesnt luna have her reversal

[AchedSphinx]

Aren't there any tips or suggestions on the general idea?

Cause in every situation i find myself i think that dia is better.

Tried some matches today, did some damage in dia then i said ok, lets try for a big combo.

>Switch to luna

>proceed to get wrecked all over the place

It doesn't work like that. Randomly going into Luna during a match usually ends up badly if you're not confident in your zoning. If you want big combos, you will need to work on mode change combos, so that you can end them in Luna 623C and then place down oki. From there you can do big damage. Most of Nu's hit-confirms can lead into mode change for Luna 623C ender.

Here are some random combos from hit's you probably aren't confirming into Luna 623C

[Dia] 214D~C > 6DD > delay 2DD > 4DD > 22A > 2DD > 4B > dashing 2DD > 623C

[Dia] 6DD > delay 2DD > 4DD > 22A > 2DD > 623C

[Dia] air hit 5DD > 4DD > 22A > 2DD > 4B > dashing 2DD > 623C

These combos aren't that easy to pull off, you will need to be able to account for positioning, and sometimes you may need to use 6D instead of 2D to make the combo work. Also, these combos aren't exactly necessary to be good with Nu. They're just added ammo for the repertoire. You can still mode change with her easier stuff, like 2B or 4B or ground throw.

Long story short, it's usually not a good idea to be in Luna at neutral unless you're confident in your zoning. If you're not confident, stick to Dia. There are no rules on how to play Nu. I've seen Protos (the current best Nu right now) stick to Dia for entire matches. Don't let it get to you. Being in Dia mode for an entire match is not bad. Nu's gameplan is typically defensive. She whittles her opponents down and force them to make mistakes. It's how you capitalize on those mistakes that matters.

[toanenadiz]

doesnt luna have her reversal

Yes, she does. But you can also just OD with Dia and get access to the OD version of it.

[AchedSphinx]

Yes, she does. But you can also just OD with Dia and get access to the OD version of it.

Well... I typically get that reversal when I want a burst, I get OD, and I'm like, "Why not?"

I'm actually pretty curious if this is a valid netplay tactic but, have you ever considered dashing up on someone during their wake-up and doing OD > Astral? Or OD > one of those 9k challenge mode combos, I think swd's combo works well here. It's something I've thought about, but it just seems too silly and unnecessarily flashy.

[Legacy Edge]

So basically, if i am not confident in my play, the safest way to go around mode switching is after a mode change combo from dia that ended in 623C and throw Oki, did i got that right?

Thanks for the advice, i will try to incorporate it in my play that's all over the place atm

[AchedSphinx]

So basically, if i am not confident in my play, the safest way to go around mode switching is after a mode change combo from dia that ended in 623C and throw Oki, did i got that right?

Thanks for the advice, i will try to incorporate it in my play that's all over the place atm

If you haven't already, check out some Nu videos. Seeing it in action will help much more than my words ever can. Here's a video with a bunch of Nu matches featuring Protos. It should give you some insight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3lbkX-LCaI

[Legacy Edge]

I watched that vid some time ago, as well as most of protoss matches uploaded, the guy is incredible i can't even comprehend how he does all this stuff.

I will try to copy some stuff, thought i don't know how it will end given the skill difference :S

[someonewhodied]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrFs3Cmdkgw

So i finally got the timing for this down. Now DPs are a thing of the past. (if you hear a hitconfirm, combo, otherwise block)

Here is a list of what it doesn't work against since its much shorter than what it does work on:

Jin Yukikaze

Noel 632146D

Tager Magna Tech Wheel

Hakumen Counters and Yukikaze

*Bang 6D (You can still block the attack, but the guardpoint still happens and gives Bang a free out)

Mu DP

Basically guardpoints and animation freezing attacks can beat safejumps.

also you lose the instant high but can punish rolls if you jump j.2C immedately. Some characters the regular safejump timing will work on to punish rolls too.

Rollpunish combo is:

j.2C>6A>2C>TK>3C>236D~22A>6A>5C>6C>236D>236C>Repeat

Edited December 8, 2013 by someonewhodied

[iora]

So.... let's say some words! maybe you guys can help me out!

I picked up Lambchops in cs2, mostly for oki wheel and 236C. I still played her in extend, but less so since they SMP'd 236C . Now here's CP. And now that NEC is done.... maybe it's time to look at Lambchops again?

Things I like:

-oki wheel

-combos with 4b

-her 'c' normals

-not zoning like a girl

-having reversal super available to me

Things I dislike:

-passive play with reaction zoning

-a lot of 22x motions in my combos

Therefore... i have a feeling i will be playing mostly in Luna mode. So some questions based around that...

1- Is her zoning in Luna that bad? Can you be fine just staying in Luna the whole time for the most part?

2- Does she still have (luna) 3c 214c 236c from extend?

3- Whats the purpose of the new move 623c?

4- Do you get good damage from 214d RC (either mode) combos?

5- Did the loss of so much head invul on 2c make it a bad AA?

Thank you. :D I know i won't be optimal, but for now i just wanna do Lambda stuffs. Hopefully this is still a reasonable option~~~

[AchedSphinx]

1- Is her zoning in Luna that bad? Can you be fine just staying in Luna the whole time for the most part?

2- Does she still have (luna) 3c 214c 236c from extend?

3- Whats the purpose of the new move 623c?

4- Do you get good damage from 214d RC (either mode) combos?

5- Did the loss of so much head invul on 2c make it a bad AA?

Thank you. :D I know i won't be optimal, but for now i just wanna do Lambda stuffs. Hopefully this is still a reasonable option~~~

1. Her zoning in Luna is slightly different than her zoning in Dia. The only thing missing is 214D~C to cover the ground more effectively. Even still, without 214D~C, zoning becomes a lot more difficult. If you're really into zoning as Luna in neutral, you will have to be confident in your neutral game since you can't keep them away as easily as Dia mode can. Also, gravity has a longer cooldown in Luna mode, and she can't do D follow ups on block. Stuff to be aware of.

2. She still has 3C > 214C > 236C, but the combo is somewhat different. 3C > 214C > dashing 6DD > 2DD > CT > 236C > dashing 5C > 2C > 623C.

3. 623C is meant to either provide oki from her various hit confirms, or extend certain combos. 90% of the time, it's used as an ender for Luna combos. There's a lot of untech time after it and it puts the opponent in a knockdown state.

4. There's no need to do RC after 214D. For instance, you can do 214D > 2DD > 4B > stuff, if you want to. Nu can't toss out RC all willy-nilly, she needs that meter for counter assaults because she's screwed in the defense department. When they were handing out DPs at the ASW headquarters, Nu got stuck in the metal detector, the only thing left were swords so she took all of them.

Anyways, if you're curious, I have a list of combos that can be done from 214D that are viable, useful, and can help you control the match.

5. 2C isn't that good as it used to be. You'll be using 6A mostly. 6A is probably better in general because it can lead to bigger damage plus oki even if she's in Dia mode.

[iora]

my question 4, i meant J.214D rc combos, the overhead of truth, i fucked up haha

but thanks for the rest of the info. that 3c combo sounds awesome actually

[AchedSphinx]

my question 4, i meant J.214D rc combos, the overhead of truth, i fucked up haha

but thanks for the rest of the info. that 3c combo sounds awesome actually

Yes, she can do 2147D (that's the actual notation btw, j.214D would be much too slow lol). It's mostly done in the corner while the opponent is stuck in the wheel. 2147D > RC > 5DD > 2DD > 6C > 236D > 236C > 5C > 2C > 623C > reset into oki. Does about 4k damage.

[iora]

alright. thanks mang, im a little more excited to try out the (shudder) v13 changes

#ripLambchops

[mAc Chaos]

she doesn't seem that different from my matches with toan

its pretty much the same old thing

[AchedSphinx]

she doesn't seem that different from my matches with toan

its pretty much the same old thing

Her gameplan never changes. Her combos are just different.

[iora]

i liked her for goofy shit reasons. take that for what it is.

[someonewhodied]

So ever since I started using safejump oki, I've been getting shittons of ragemail (OK shittons is exaggerating. I got like 2....)

"I FUCKING DP'D YOU WHILE YOU WERE ATTACKING YOU LITTLE FUCK" was one. :3

I need to create more DP safe things. At this rate I'll be the most hated person on netplay.

Against the not-smallest characters (Noel, platinum, ect), it also punishes rolls without different timing. Its great.

Also what the fuck does Nu do against someone that runs straight at you with the "Yolo" mindset iwth no game plan whatsoever? I can't seem to download and predict them.

[Nedel_3773]

I'll be sure to implement that safejump in my gameplay :3

For yolo people, doing air backdash j.C can cover space that j.D cannot and if you score a hit you can confirm into dashing 5A - whatever. Otherwise thought, that randomness is really their biggest asset; you can't predict their next move. Just play safe, cover ground to limit their approach and you should do fine. Doing 214B at full screen can also be a good thing instead of 214C.

[Gravity-Blade]

That safe jump is great, definitely gonna learn it.

Haven't gotten CP yet but I'm gonna have to get used to 22A. Some of the combos with it don't look fun. I kinda did prefer Lambda over Nu for set-ups. But these changes I'm not sure on. I probably will switch to Luna mode for sickle oki and when I have 50 meter to super DP or RC. Dia neutral is a given but I did prefer the sickle oki, reversal DP, and feint TK saber.

For the crazy rushdown types I like to use gravity wells, 2D, TK saber, throws, 214D at mid-range. I do try to use 236A to cross under if they jump, then try to figure to IAD back for space or to IAD forward to attempt a cross up. Also, spacing them away in a ending blockstring of 3C>214D/236D is good on a few of the cast, prefer having meter for a RC. 236A close up can be useful provided they don't expect it.

I like 236B>RC>236A people don't see it if you use it sparingly. Still gets beat by stuff but I take what I can get with Nu. A gambit with 100 meter you could super DP then RC and 236A if they can get passed through them or do whatever else after the RC. Could always try to mash out with 2A/5A or try to get them with gravity well if they're down your throat.

Our new DP seems iffy but could work depending. Dia has the old teleports so 6C or a D followed up by a teleport could be useful. Those sort of players I like to wait for an punishable move and go for a fatal combo. Most of those players often get mixed up and crossed up rather easily or thrown.

Also, anyone with CP been using overdrive for pressure or to tack on extra damage or are you mainly been saving the burst?

[AchedSphinx]

You save overdrive for ODc > 632146D

Your use of RC could use some work. If you use 632146D as a reversal, you don't need to RC unless they block it. If you're looking for some good use for 236A, try doing 3C > 236A > dashing 4B. You'll cross through and get a cross up overhead. Pretty nifty. Also useful for positioning the opponent in the corner. 5D > 236A > throw also still has its uses.

For 236B, try doing 236B > RC > dashing 3C leads to some insane damage and corner carry.

Her drive teleports have their uses. A lot of Nu players use them for some shenanigans with 2B or cross up 2B. Pretty useful.

Nu's Fatal isn't her punish. 6B is her punish. 5C comes out too slow and leads to the same amount of damage.

And yes that safety jump has its uses. Though I tend to just do wheel oki and if they DP they just get hit by that or 6B. No one ever wants to get hit by Nu's 6B while in the corner.

[toanenadiz]

Also, anyone with CP been using overdrive for pressure or to tack on extra damage or are you mainly been saving the burst?

ODing through random supers and punishing them. Hakumen's Shippu, Jin's Ice Wave, Ragna's Carnage Scissors (if he has 100 heat), ect.

Edited December 10, 2013 by toanenadiz

[someonewhodied]

You save overdrive for ODc > 632146D

Your use of RC could use some work. If you use 632146D as a reversal, you don't need to RC unless they block it. If you're looking for some good use for 236A, try doing 3C > 236A > dashing 4B. You'll cross through and get a cross up overhead. Pretty nifty. Also useful for positioning the opponent in the corner. 5D > 236A > throw also still has its uses.

For 236B, try doing 236B > RC > dashing 3C leads to some insane damage and corner carry.

Her drive teleports have their uses. A lot of Nu players use them for some shenanigans with 2B or cross up 2B. Pretty useful.

Nu's Fatal isn't her punish. 6B is her punish. 5C comes out too slow and leads to the same amount of damage.

And yes that safety jump has its uses. Though I tend to just do wheel oki and if they DP they just get hit by that or 6B. No one ever wants to get hit by Nu's 6B while in the corner.

if you have a spare 25 meter, 5C is the punish route you want.

Otherwise, i'd say i agree with you with 6B.

[Nedel_3773]

In regards to the safejump hit/roll punish combo, would it not be better to do the ''extended'' combo with luna 623C?

Dia X - 236D - 22A - 6A - 623C - 2DD - 6C - 236D - 236C ? I don't know how much damage/heat is added by doing the 623C part, nor if the combo length allows you to, but I'm wondering. 2.7k is respectable for a roll punish, but there has to be better [meterless, gravity-less] combos. Why do I have no time to try all of this T.T