[CP] Hakumen VS Hakumen: I'll Face Myself

[mAc Chaos]

Pacumen special guest referee.

[Soviet Bear]

This always evolves into a "What if he knows that I know that he knows that I know that he will do X?" for me. And if you're too fancy, people will pick up your own gimmicks. I suggest doing sub-optimal stuff (*cough6Dcough*) until your opponent catches on, then just use the throw button. Be the void, embrace the void, just don't go into mashing territory. Haku VS Haku is possibly the only mirror I enjoy in any fighting game.

[IndigoNovember]

I always have fun just sitting there watching the opponent self destruct in front of me. It does get a bit awkward when you're both sitting down enjoying tea though.

[Sophisticat]

Let's get some specifics in here.

- Kishuu beats 4c, low j.C.

- Jabs beat 6a/b on IB. Throws beat startup.

- You can link 5c on IB'd 3c. Ouch.

- 1st hit of renka can no longer be IB'd for a 2D.

- You can do lv2 6c on whiffed Shippu/Yukikaze.

General game plan depends on whether the opponent is RTSD, turtling, or a mix.

Personally, I find patient play wins out in the end. I'd be wary of going full RTSD unless you're good at being unpredictable as Haku thrives on getting a good read. You need to be able to hold yourself back until the right moment, then take advantage of an opportunity to dish it out. Big, random dmg in this match can make it pivot either way, so getting the other guy to waste stars and a burst/OD is a good strat. CP Haku with no stars and no OD is much less of a threat.

At neutral, you want to bait 4c while watching out for 3c. If you prefer to play the spacing game, use 4c, low j.C, and 3c while watching out for Enma, air throw, sudden IAD on your 4c, and counters.

A-to-G, Agito seems pretty boss. Whoever is in the air tends to have the advantage as Haku has shitty AA. Preemptive AA will tend to win out unless stuffed by Agito.

A-to-A is one big mind game. You'll want to use j.C and air grab mainly depending on spacing, but Hotaru beats both, and j.D beats j.C and Hotaru. Be on the ball and get your spacing/gameplan down as one j.C or Hotaru can mean you corner them.

And that's all I can think of atm.

Edited December 11, 2013 by Sophisticat

[mAc Chaos]

This always evolves into a "What if he knows that I know that he knows that I know that he will do X?" for me.

That is what I love about it. It was perfectly suited to his counters too.

If you block 3C, you can 3C in response for punish.

How do you guys deal with Agito? Let's say they do Agito from high up and you blocked. Now what.

[Soviet Bear]

How do you guys deal with Agito? Let's say they do Agito from high up and you blocked. Now what.

I block the follow-up jB, or Yukikaze the jB. I don't think normal D moves are fast enough to catch a jB after Agito. If he's not doing a jB as a follow-up, 5C/2C might hit him, depending on how "high up" we're talking about. Most Hakumen I've fought in mirrors just use Agito as a combo finisher, so I haven't had many situations where the move made me go "what now?"

Edited December 11, 2013 by Soviet Bear

[dioxideUniversa]

5D is definitely fast enough to catch a followup j.B, especially if you IB. if they did hop Agito, you can jab them out if the followup j.B

[mAc Chaos]

Noted.

I block the follow-up jB, or Yukikaze the jB. I don't think normal D moves are fast enough to catch a jB after Agito. If he's not doing a jB as a follow-up, 5C/2C might hit him, depending on how "high up" we're talking about. Most Hakumen I've fought in mirrors just use Agito as a combo finisher, so I haven't had many situations where the move made me go "what now?"

If they do it from high enough they can drop down with j.B which leads into other options. Or just drop down.

I want to find a broad answer that will discourage them from even trying Agito. Maybe we'd have time to jump up and airgrab them.

Also, after whiffing Agito he can still j.C as well. That caught me off guard a few times.

[mAc Chaos]

Any of you learn anything new?

[BlackYakuzu94]

6B is gdlike for beating 2D?

[Moblin]

Noted.

If they do it from high enough they can drop down with j.B which leads into other options. Or just drop down.

I want to find a broad answer that will discourage them from even trying Agito. Maybe we'd have time to jump up and airgrab them.

Also, after whiffing Agito he can still j.C as well. That caught me off guard a few times.

A player in my scene was getting sick of my Agito spam in neutral, and this is what he came up with:

You have to predict the Agito somewhat. But if Hakumen tries to IAD over his opponent and Agito from a neutral game position, a backwards normal jump and airgrab will beat Agito almost every time. You have to jump at the same time Haku does. He plays Litchi though so jumping away from Hakumen is something that is not rare in the matchup, so he uses it as an option select.

[Soviet Bear]

Here is some utterly trivial knowledge I found out today in training mode. Since Agito is a full projectile, it can go through Hakumen's Astral without any issues (even if you hop Agito, it doesn't matter how close or far you are). The real funny stuff was that you can cut through Agito with 5C or 2C and create a Fuumajin. What's possibly even funnier is that the Haku who did Agito can just 2C into the opponent's Fuumajin, creating another Fuumajin and they just cancel each other out.

[BlackYakuzu94]

Here is some utterly trivial knowledge I found out today in training mode. Since Agito is a full projectile, it can go through Hakumen's Astral without any issues (even if you hop Agito, it doesn't matter how close or far you are). The real funny stuff was that you can cut through Agito with 5C or 2C and create a Fuumajin. What's possibly even funnier is that the Haku who did Agito can just 2C into the opponent's Fuumajin, creating another Fuumajin and they just cancel each other out.

 

Fumaijinception.

[Soviet Bear]

Some gimmicks I found today:

 

• If you do jB on his 5D or jD, you can do a Hotaru to ignore the grab. Sadly, you can't follow up said hotaru, and in most cases you can block the counter anyway;
• You can counter your opponent's 5D, 2D and 6D with an Astral by cancelling 2A or 2B. Regular drives won't work, although doing a Yukikaze will eat your stock (funnily enough, you can see the startup of Yuki, but apparently 1F startup isn't fast enough);
• You can OD cancel the above normals (plus 5A and 5B) and then instant block your opponent's drive grab;
• If your OD is active and you're at 8 magatama, you can hop Agito into a Yukikaze and buffer an Astral as you land (it will catch it);
• If your OD isn't active and you hit your opponent's Yuki with a hop Agito, you have enough time to do an OD after you land and ignore the Yukikaze damage.

Mostly useless circumstantial stuff, but I guess if you want to blow someone's mind online, you can always try it.

[BlackYakuzu94]

Some gimmicks I found today:

 

• If you do jB on his 5D or jD, you can do a Hotaru to ignore the grab. Sadly, you can't follow up said hotaru, and in most cases you can block the counter anyway;
• You can counter your opponent's 5D, 2D and 6D with an Astral by cancelling 2A or 2B. Regular drives won't work, although doing a Yukikaze will eat your stock (funnily enough, you can see the startup of Yuki, but apparently 1F startup isn't fast enough);
• You can OD cancel the above normals (plus 5A and 5B) and then instant block your opponent's drive grab;
• If your OD is active and you're at 8 magatama, you can hop Agito into a Yukikaze and buffer an Astral as you land (it will catch it);
• If your OD isn't active and you hit your opponent's Yuki with a hop Agito, you have enough time to do an OD after you land and ignore the Yukikaze damage.

Mostly useless circumstantial stuff, but I guess if you want to blow someone's mind online, you can always try it.

 

This is pretty hilarious.

[Soviet Bear]

Forgot something in my last post. If your opponent's 5D catches your 5C, you can cancel the 5C into a Shippu. The step back from the move will make the opponent's grab miss you. Doesn't work if he's in your face, but works at some distances where the 5D would otherwise catch you.

[mAc Chaos]

As of Extend, you can IB 4C and punish it with your own 4C. You can also 4C a blocked 3C when 3C pushes Hakumen too far for other punishes. However, a Gurren into Zantetsu or Shippu work here as well.