[FB] Gundam Spiegel General Discussion: Let It Rip!

[Dances w Ninjas]

Gundam Spiegel

Cost: 2000

HP: 600

Pilot: Schwarz Bruder

Series: G Gundam

Movelist

Regular Moves:

[A] Kunai Toss

[Ammo: 10][Reload: 7s][Damage: 30 (2 Kunai)]

Tosses 2 kunai at the opponent. Can throw additional kunai by pressing A again. Has multiple follow-ups. Each toss (5A, 2/8A, and 4/6A) uses 1 ammo.

[2/8A After A] Backflip Kunai: Performs a backflip and throws 5 kunai.

[4/6A After A] Sidestep Kunai: Flips to the side while throwing 2 kunai.

[CSa] Exploding Kunai

[Charge: 2.5s][Damage: 160]

Performs a backflip and throws 4 kunai that explode on contact. Spiegel's go-to move.

[AB] Energy Net

[Ammo: 1][Reload: 5s][Damage: 70]

Fires a net at the opponent that stuns on hit. After hitting, the net stays on the opponent for a while, reducing their mobility.

[AC] Rising Assist

[Ammo: 1][Reload: 9s][Damage: 90]

Calls Rising Gundam to fire an arrow. Travels quickly across the stage (similar to Dynames' A shot).

[bC] Spinning Dash

Dashes forward while spinning. Pulls to the left or right if you use 4/6BC.

Melee Attacks:

[5BBBB] Neutral Combo

[Damage: 222]

Three slashes into an uppercut, followed by a hurricane kick. Has a few mid-chain variations (applies to 4B as well).

[8B]: Lighting Legs: Combo filler.

[2B]: Izuna Drop: Ground bounces on hit for follow-ups.

[bC]: Shadow Clone Attack: Clones appear and launch the opponent, followed by a dragon kick.

[A]: Same as the 4/6A follow-up to A.

[4/6BBB] Side Combo

[Damage: 204]

Does two slashes followed by a two-hit flipping kick that launches.

[8B] Jaguar Kick

[Damage: 66]

Leaping axe kick. Ground bounces on hit. Can be used to change landing trajectory or to end combos while saving ammo.

[2B] Counter

[Damage: up to 205]

Puts up a wall. If a melee attack makes contact with Spiegel during it, it triggers a counterattack where it repeatedly stomps on the opponent. Mash B for more damage. Can be rainbow stepped even if the counter isn't triggered.

[CC8b] Spinning Attack

[Damage: 128]

Spiegel spins at the opponent differently than his other spin animations. Not sure how to describe it, and I'm not sure how it's used. I think it just exists to let you know you screwed up your 8B.

[ABC] Sturm Und Drang (Burst Only)

[Damage: 299(A)/270(B)]

Attacks the opponent in Beyblade mode. On hit, it's followed by a tornado animation and clone attack. Relatively easy to combo into compared to other ABC attacks (after AB or the Izuna Drop variation of the melee combo).

Cancel Routes

A: A (up to 5 times total), 2/8A, 4/6A, CSa, AB, BC

4/6A: CSa, AB, BC

2/8A: CSa, AB, BC

BC: Everything but AC and ABC

B: CSa

Basic Strategy

-Use CSa a lot.

-Mix up BC, boost dashing, 8B -> Rainbow Step, A -> 2A, CSa, etc. to keep your movement hard to read.

-BC -> Boost Dash or Sidestep -> Boost Dash to avoid running

-Try to be level with or above the opponent when throwing CSa to ensure the kunai will still explode by hitting the ground. You can use 8B to rise a little bit more before the throw.

-Use A and AC to punish landings CSa isn't fast enough to catch.

-AB has good guidance. Use it to catch opponents not paying attention to you or to combo off of CSa.

-Did I mention CSa? That move's rad. It can be used in green lock, as an oki tool, confirms into just about anything, WHATEVER. Go nuts!

Combos

->: Normal Cancel

>>: Boost Dash

>: Rainbow Step

A (x n)

A -> 2A -> AB

A -> AB >> AC

A -> AB >> ABC

A >> 5BBB > AB or AC

A >> 5BBB2B > AB or AC

CSa >> A (x n)

CSa >> AB

CSa >> AC

CSa >> 8B

*Note: CSa combos are dependent on how the kunai connect. For example, if the opponent is only grazed by an explosion, CSa >> AB >> AC is possible, and if the kunai connect directly, no follow-up is possible.

AB >> AAA

AB >> A -> 2A

AB >> AC

AB >> 5BBB > AC

AB >> ABC

8B > AAA

8B > A -> 2A

8B > AB >> AC

8B > AC

8B > 5BBB2B

5BBB8B>5BB2B

5BBB8B>5BBB>AB or AC

Videos

All videos are after the June 2013 arcade patch unless stated otherwise.

Nico Video:

http://horibuna.web.fc2.com/EXVSFB/EXVSFB_37vfbu0swu.html

Chourou The Broadcasting:

09/05/13 - Spiegel/God vs Destiny/Crossbone X-2

10/03/13 - Spiegel/Spiegel vs God/God

11/06/13 - Spiegel/Hi Nu vs Wing Zero TV/Gyan

11/10/13 - Spiegel/Hi Nu vs Wing Zero EW/Delta Plus

11/15/13 - Spiegel/Master vs Spiegel/Master

11/29/13 - Spiegel/Red Frame vs Forbidden/Hi Nu

12/10/13 - Spiegel/Red Frame vs Banshee/Gun-EZ

12/22/13 - Spiegel/Zeta vs Kshatriya/Dynames

01/05/14 - Spiegel/Unicorn vs Qanta/Gerbera Tetra

01/28/14 - Spiegel/Master vs Epyon/Dynames

02/10/14 - Spiegel/Unicorn vs Crossbone X-1/Blue Destiny

Team Composition and Potential Partners

Spiegel's movement and CSa allow it some freedom in whether it wants to play aggressively or around green lock range, which makes it flexible with partners. Its lack of boost-efficient offense makes it more suited for the back, though. Be cautious when paired with melee-oriented suits, since CSa and AB have the potential to catch your partner and screw up melee attempts.

3000: Wing Zero TV, Reborns, Xi, Unicorn

2500: Banshee, Impulse

2000: Gyan, Red Frame, Char's Gelgoog, Exia

1000: Ez8, Zaku II Kai, Hildolfr, Efreet Kai

Edited February 27, 2014 by Dances w Ninjas

[brett_]

net is Sub, rain is AC, probably want to include BC, the spin. Kunai toss can be directionally influenced - the vertical version gives you the multitoss backflip, i believe horizontal during multiple tosses makes him sidestep a bit while tossing the next one.

[Dances w Ninjas]

The BC spin is the one most players use to move around, right? I assumed it was his sidestep. Thanks for the clarification.

[brett_]

The BC spin is the one most players use to move around, right? I assumed it was his sidestep. Thanks for the clarification.

yeah if you see them spinning like crazy its his BC

[Eriksharp]

Spiegel + Gun-Ez, with Gun-Ez shield support is a good combination, since Gun-Ez is beam-based attacks with powerful beam rifle and beam bazooka, they can be good partners.

[Setsuna Yuki]

I think it's better if it's not the main threat of the team and opponents focus its partner.

In summary, it's specialized in surprize attacks in my opinion and it's better that way.

[Dances w Ninjas]

Yeah, its ideal partner is a 3K. It doesn't have any ways to mount a boost-efficient offense from the front, so it can't stay the center of attention for long. I don't think pairing it with another 2K is a bad idea, either, but it probably won't be as good as Spiegel/3K.

[brett_]

Worth mentioning that in the God Gundam matchup, I've found that CSa in super close range isn't actually a good answer to what he does, because for some silly reason God Field Dash (straight or side) will both avoid the CSa even right in your face. It seems best to instead keep him out with Kunai from close-mid range, either doing A -> Sub or A > 2A, rather than baiting him to come in close and CSa him like you generally would do vs most melee characters. Also perhaps 8B > Kunai may work, not sure, need to play that matchup more. This is especially important if you already have your CSa held earlier in the exchange. It's best to let it go earlier and then continue keeping out with Kunai.

[FatalDMG]

Hello guys,

made a quick little tutorial for Spiegel, for those who want to play him (who are new to the series I guess). Tell me what you think.

Edited February 2, 2014 by FatalDMG

[Umareru]

Hi FatalDMG, here's some critique:

1) 2:15, you could have combo'd into the Rising Gundam assist off that kunai grenade.

2) You mentioned that every combo should end in izuna drop. I did see some videos where they end the combo with the net, which is also a nice option because the opponent gets slowed after.

In general, I think you should use the net and rising gundam assist more. Also, after watching some Spiegel replays I noticed they use BC and 2B to move around more as well. Your last move at the end of the first video was pretty sick though, I would have definitely died to that beam and lost the match.

[Dances w Ninjas]

Any thoughts on Assault vs Blast Burst? Assault is neat because of how easy it is to combo into Spiegel's Extreme Attack, but Blast helps to keep it from hemorrhaging boost meter.

[FatalDMG]

Hi FatalDMG, here's some critique:

1) 2:15, you could have combo'd into the Rising Gundam assist off that kunai grenade.

2) You mentioned that every combo should end in izuna drop. I did see some videos where they end the combo with the net, which is also a nice option because the opponent gets slowed after.

In general, I think you should use the net and rising gundam assist more. Also, after watching some Spiegel replays I noticed they use BC and 2B to move around more as well. Your last move at the end of the first video was pretty sick though, I would have definitely died to that beam and lost the match.

Umareru, thanks so much for your kind words. I really appreciate and value your input. I have unfortunately moved away from Mr. Ninja for a bit to test out Big. O. Both are very fun suits, but I seem to perform better with Big O. Mr. Ninja will be used for more fun player matches with friends.

I will definitely take your advice into consideration and add it more to my meta game, once I use him more frequently.

[WisteriaFrame]

I've been wanting to pick up Spiegel ever since I picked him to play and unlock all intros in the Gallery. I like his mobility and swift attacks, though I see the flaw in his boost efficiency.

Since I want to start using Spiegel, I have a few questions:

Which Burst is most effective in maximizing Spiegel's strengths and possibly covering it's weaknesses?

Which combo is practical to use in player vs player with the least chance of getting interrupted, but has the most damage; and a followup question for the OP: Is it possible for you to note the damage given from each combo listed?

I never thought I'd use a G Gundam but I'm really enjoying Spiegel so far!

[brett_]

Regarding Bursts:

I really like A burst because of being able to close in faster, and helps his melee out greatly, especially for doing things like A -> 8BC -> A -> 8BC -> 8B -> Burst -> etc.

Because he doesn't have anything that he can do without stalling in the air, the step cancels from B burst aren't as useful as with other suits. The boost efficient can help, but I think getting more boost back as well as bigger damage is much more useful as a character who aims to get in when they're not noticing to create chaos. Being able to utilize his super without worrying about OH / losing your activate really helps too, as his super is actually pretty useful since it has super armor and travels quite far.

[WisteriaFrame]

Regarding Bursts:

I really like A burst because of being able to close in faster, and helps his melee out greatly, especially for doing things like A -> 8BC -> A -> 8BC -> 8B -> Burst -> etc.

Because he doesn't have anything that he can do without stalling in the air, the step cancels from B burst aren't as useful as with other suits. The boost efficient can help, but I think getting more boost back as well as bigger damage is much more useful as a character who aims to get in when they're not noticing to create chaos. Being able to utilize his super without worrying about OH / losing your activate really helps too, as his super is actually pretty useful since it has super armor and travels quite far.

Awesome! I've actually been using A Burst, initially with the melee boost in mind, but realizing he's not supposed to be played close range all the time, I wanted to ask if B would be more beneficial. Good to know.

Also is that an actual combo you listed or is that what you use to close in?