brett_

midscreen zwei you generally need good dash jump momentum to 1hit. If you're doing this off of something like ground LV2 High > Coin > dash j.PKS etc, make sure you delay your jump cancel in order to give yourself a more length dash. this gives you more momentum and puts you closer to them. The string itself doesn't really matter, it can even just be mainly j.P's. The main determining factor is how long you held your dash and overall positioning.

@WintySoSolo there are currently no requests on that FB page apparently. Try requesting again?

Unfortunately I can't approve requests but I'll let someome who can do so

Norcal Dogfight occurs every 3rd Saturday of the month, starting at 2PM PST. As for looking for people in the berkeley area, I'll try asking for you in our FB group (you can find the link: https://www.facebook.com/groups/218540381658036/ ) I'd also suggest asking in the Norcal Thread too:

Yup, there's a meetup on Wednesday.

I think CT lives in the city, not sure who else does. I'm like 20 mins south, not that far off. Most of us mainly congregate at GC in San Carlos now but you could probably catch a ride with CT?

Can you explain this glitch in more detail? You're claiming he has some invulnerability during the switch between crouching to standing states, right? In that case, could you show us an example or describe a scenario you've discovered where this works at neutral? Ignoring wakeup etc, if this is how you're describing it, you should be able to just invuln through a move at neutral. Have you considered the possibility that Johnny is just throwing your safejump here? Safejumps are throwable if timed perfectly (You are throwable the frame right before you land on the ground)

Actually, though I could be mistaken, people trying to piano K to PSH, while it works, should probably be warned that you can definitely do it too fast and get the YRC too early. I haven't calculated the actual interval, but it FEELS like between K and YRC, a 3-4 frame gap is required to get the proper momentum cancel. Generally I use the same input as for doing KJT~KJ FRC > j.H in AC or AC+R, which is: Killer Joker~S > [PKS]~[H]. Obviously the input is FRC then single input, rather than the other way around like Zweihander. But in that situation, where you definitely want to do j.H around 1-2 frames after the FRC, applying the same timing to Zwei K~YRC piano input definitely causes me to do the YRC too fast. When I use the piano method, I generally mentally give myself a little delay in between the K and YRC inputs as a result. Again I could be wrong about this, but when I first started trying different methods, I definitely found that only by adding slight delay in between K and PSH could I get it to consistently work for me.

the j.S > j.H KD has to be done kind of early due to height, so the main benefit of midscreen Zweihander KD is CORNER CARRY. In conjunction with dash jumps, you can often get enough corner carry to get to the corner and zwei, thus setting up a solid unblockable setup. It is much harder to achieve this using j.SH knockdown. http://www.dustloop.com/wiki/index.php?title=GGXRD-R/Johnny#Special_Moves You just need to YRC faster, basically.

So, the dustloop wiki has some explanation of the zweihander ender on it. The tldr is adjust height by changing your air string

Yeah, trust me, they training mode, hahaha. That set Killerwatt posted is very insightful. His play VS Sin and Chipp were both very interesting. Also vs AXL, since I had heard it might be tough for Axl since LV2 can punish Rensen on block, it was interesting to see when and how that actually played a factor (IIRC Karinchu only got the punish once, but you could tell when he was thinking about it). Also 5K to deal with sparrowhawk haha.

As mentioned on the wiki ( http://www.dustloop.com/wiki/index.php?title=GGXRD-R/Johnny/Combos#How_To_Do_Mist_Stance_Dash_Treasure_Hunt ), the main thing for Dash Treasure Hunt consistency is delaying the buffer on the input. It's better to do it very late so that it drops from the previous hit, and then improve your timing from there. If you're talking about just raw dash TH, rather than from something like 6H, just do it faster. Chances are you're just doing it too slowly. They've been added to the Combo section of the wiki

While I am getting used to doing j.D > LV1 High as a LV1 random ender, I am 100% guilty of being absolute garbage at confirming random j.S into any air mist finer. Whenever I hit ppl with j.S my head is filled with "OOOH ENSENGA!", the ghost hands perform the move, and then in game I fall gently to the floor without doing anything

Both of those points have explanations on the wiki about them, though that update was a few days ago - maybe you missed it? Air Zweihander is only guaranteed to connect in the corner universally. Beyond that, it depends on your spacing, dash momentum, and the character's hurtbox. For example, the basic bnb midscreen from starting position of Stuff > LV2 Low > Dash Coin > 5P > LV2 High > Coin > Dash j.PKS > dj > j.KSD > Zweikasu will work on many characters, but not consistently on all. That's because its literally just coincidence that that starting position is close enough to the corner. If you start it from 1 character width or two farther from the corner, you should notice that many characters that it worked for just flat out won't work anymore. That's because the Zweihander is only connecting from j.D because the corner is preventing them from flying away. If you want to connect an air combo to Zweihander completely midscreen, you should basically always assume its situational. This does not mean that its impractical. It means its not something you should expect via basic combo theory. You're going to connect your Zweihander midscreen because you know a specific string in that situation that will work, or because you got lucky and the character is fat enough in the air. Basically Air Zweihander is not a dial-mode combo ender unless you're near the corner. It is not May's Ensenga, or Potemkin's ICPM, or Sol doing VV Ender. I apologize if I'm going overboard with this distinction but its really important, and unfortunately, because the wiki has no movelist entries, there's no documented explanation at the moment regarding this move and why / when it works the way it does. And this is not necessarily directed just at Spuck, but basically anyone new. Anyways this is why its recommended to start by getting used to using the j.S > j.H knockdown route. Now granted, though I say its somewhat specific, Johnny's corner carry in this version is kind of ridiculous so "corner" combos can really start from about half screen. But it's still important to know the distinction, so that you don't just try and adlib an air combo midscreen without knowing whats going on and try and tag a Zweihander at the end.

http://www.dustloop.com/wiki/index.php?title=GGXRD-R/Johnny/Combos is a good place to start.

At LV2, 2H > AMC > Airdash is mainly dependant on your height. You need to make sure you're mist cancelling when he's at the apex, any lower and you just simply can't airdash. The method I recommend that has helped me get consistent with it is to input the first 6 of the airdash at the same, or slightly later timing than the H you press for your mist cancel. So, 2H > 214[P/K/S] > 6+H > 6 LV2 Low > Dash Coin > 5P should work on Pot at certain ranges. At most ranges, LV2 Low > Dash 5K or f.S > Coin > f.S (> 2H) should be stable. If you're doing 5K, fastest 5K will make the f.S whiff after Coin, so some slight delay is necessary if you're fast/precise with your initial forward dash. The main theory is LV2 Low > (Something) > Coin > (Something) > LV2 High, so just try various normals for chars that are giving you a hard time. The Combo section on the XrdR Dustloop wiki has some basic formulas to give you an idea. From starting position, you can generally get a dash air combo that leads to corner Zwei ender, but it is somewhat character specific. If you're you're pretty far from the corner and you know the basic dash jump air combo won't get you close enough to the corner, your basic options are: 1) LV2 High > Coin > Airdash j.D or similar string > Air LV2 High > Coin > etc 2) LV2 High > Coin > Dash 5H > LV2 High etc 3) Combo into LV2 MID > Dash x 2 (>6H) > Stance Dash Treasure Hunt > Pickup > etc if you want to go to the corner. You can always just doing Coin > Dash j.S > j.H knockdown midscreen instead, also. 1. jD MC is pretty important for when you are already cornered, for spacing adjustment. You can get away with not doing it, but you're probably missing out on the best corner throw routes if you avoid it. 2. Correctly in what sense? If you mean timing your YRC, the easiest way to tell is, if you YRC and press a button like f.S or 2S, it should WHIFF if you're doing it at the earliest time. If they're getting hit, it means your mist or your YRC is a bit late. In actuality it doesn't really matter that much but it can make the difference in terms of the position of the mist and affecting how many hits you need before the mist is actually on them. 3. j.D > Zwei is pretty stable. j.D > Air Zwei will whiff if they are too high above you. Reduce hits or change routes to lower them, or cut your double jump short. Or use j.S > j.H > j.D route, or j.D > MC > j.H > j.D route.

What Elemenope said is well worded. The only thing I'd add is that the main situation I can think of where you actually are doing Coin > LV2 High (aside from throw) is when you are forced to use a ground LV2 High near the corner. Usually this forces you to do Backdash > Coin > LV2 High since the ground version causes a ton of knockback (this is why you're supposed to use 2H routes when already near the corner). Regardless though, like Elemenope said, its just a matter of timing. Advice wise, you can start by reviewing the dustloop wiki entry: http://www.dustloop.com/wiki/index.php?title=GGXRD-R/Johnny - The combo and strategy sections have some content to get you started. Reviewing the basis of the ACPR entry can also give you a decent understanding of at least what the character is like etc: http://www.dustloop.com/wiki/index.php?title=GGACR/Johnny Question wise, as Elemenope mentioned, being specific is the best way to get help.

Another interesting post air-tech unblockable option I've started experimenting with. Feel free to try it out in your matches and give me some feedback: To refresh your memory, the current one I recommend and have been using is Corner Combo > B Blink (end of combo) > B Orb > Air Backdash > Opponent Techs > falling safejump j.B > (opponent blocks) > Rising j.2C > (Orb) > B Dive > etc. There are so many good advantages to this setup, and in actual match even against strong players I find I have over a 90% success rate with this. That being said, there are two main issues with the setup: 1) Variable tech timing - if the opponent no techs, late techs, or ground techs, you may mess up the timing on the j.B, causing it to whiff. This can obviously cause problems. Generally if I feel like the opponent is going to no tech or something, I'll delay my air backdash so that my j.B comes out later. 2) Shielding - if they shield the rising j.2C, you're kind of screwed since j.2C shielded just leaves you hanging there for a while. Its even worse since j.2C can be shielded crouching. The best answer to this is either to do a mixup, or go for a throw, after the falling j.B, if you sniff a shield. Fortunately since you're massively plus after falling j.B, opponents very rarely do this instinctually, but players who understand how this UB setup works will sniff out it pretty easily. The following setup is only slightly different, but introduces some solutions to the above issues, as well as introducing new problems (heh). I wouldn't call this a BETTER version of the above, but it is an alternative with different pro/cons: Corner Combo > B Blink (end combo) > B orb > Fast Fall > Dashing "meaty" rising j.2C > recover > j.A > (Orb) > B Dive UB. As you can see, there are quite a few differences. The biggest difference is that you are no longer doing a safejump. Instead, you are fast falling then meatying with a rising j.2C. This obviously means you are vulnerable to DPs, wakeup CS, veil off (I think?), backdash, etc. However, this definitely does solve the issue of variable tech timing! Since you fastfall, you can basically react to the tech animation and then time your j.2C properly (If they no tech, meaty j.2C > B Orb is a free UB). Since you are doing a falling j.A into B dive, if they shield the j.A, you actually are still at advantage after the B Orb. On a shielded j.A, there is enough time for the opponent to jump, but then get caught air blocking the B Orb, in which case you can air unblockable them! On a non-shielded blocked j.A, there is a gap only small enough for the orb to hit them out of jump startup, or to veil off, though again, easily baited by just doing nothing after j.A. There is no gap between B Orb and B dive, as a result. As you can see, this setup does easily address the two awkward issues with the initial setup. It does, however, have some new weaknesses which are pretty problematic: 1) The Gap between j.2C > j.A - it's a pretty large gap, one that you can easily jump out of as soon as you see you blocked Seth's j.2C. A bit problematic, though if the opponent has no air options, this isn't a very good situation to be left in. Seth should generally be able to react (or OS) to the jump out after whiffing j.A and anti air unless the opponent reacts quickly with an air normal that can hit seth. In some situations, Seth's j.A can hit the opponent out, though it is kind of spacing specific. 2) Shielding the initial j.2C - still the same problem, though way riskier. Wakeup shield is even more risky than sheidling after the safejump j.B, so I think this is a little bit less to be worried about. If they're throwing in wakeup shield to deal with these setups, you can just do normal oki and get some good reward. 3) I use the word "meaty" because in a lot of cases the j.2C is not going to be a perfect meaty. In my testing though, it will generally beat out most antiairs and high hitting medium speed moves (tested against Gordeau 2C, for example). However, this setup in practicality is very timing specific, and so especially against opponents with a high hitting 5A like Seth, it can be tricky not to get mashed out. Luckily there are plenty of other post air tech setups you can go for instead to keep the opponents honest, and its pretty hard for that opponent to really tell that you're going for the j.2C meaty. You're basically running into their body and the j.2C isn't reactable, so its not very realistic for them to mash buttons here. 4) This only works if they dont forward tech. If they forward tech, this setup totally doesnt work, though due to the normal airbackdash j.B setup, forward teching is very risky anyways. I find that most opponents who are aware of Seth's corner options tend not to forward tech very often. Caveats: I haven't tested this setup thoroughly on every character. It is pretty finnicky and hard to get your gaps right against certain characters, especially skinny ones. The biggest issue you will encounter is your j.A > Orb gap being too big, which will cause them to be able to jump, airblock the Orb, then your B dive will whiff. The best way to adjust this is to delay your j.2C meaty slightly. On some characters, j.A will also whiff if they crouch, which will cause some problems. You can time the j.A so it covers both, though it may leave holes in other places. Replacing j.2C > j.A with j.2C > j.2C will also resolve this issue, though you're against susceptible to shielding as mentioned above. Try it out, and let me know how it works for you guys. Lastly, here's an updated version similar to above which is definitely a lot easier to do, more intimidating for the opponent, and a bit trickier to block: Corner Combo > B Blink (end combo) > B orb > Fast Fall > TK air assault > j.C > j.6C > (Orb) B Dive Haven't tried this one in actual matches but assuming they dont shield the initial j.C, it seems really nice. Dont have to deal with crouching or anything, plenty of blockstun means the gaps will always be good, and j.6C automatically catches jump out. In addition, the j.6C is an overhead hit, which can catch some people off guard.

This thread is probably going to blow up in about 4 months, so no worries. I have very limited experience playing Rev Johnny but I'll try and answer these questions as best I can. There are other JO players living in Japan who lurk here who are more than welcome to correct / clarify my answers. Zweihander is both. Air version is a kick with fire that knocks down. Ground does the forward leap motion, then an additional button press makes a similar kick w/ fire. This is identical to how Divine Blade / Killer Joker have functioned in the past, though the input is now 623K. 6P is identical You can jump cancel his forward dash, basically at any point, including startup, and recovery. You cannot FD cancel it in the middle of the dash. The later portion of its recovery frames can be cancelled into FD, among other things. It should be throw invincible and go over lows still (need to confirm this), but if you YRC his forward dash, he is not airborne. mist cancel is identical to AC in terms of frame data. There is a bit more hitstop in Xrd compared to XX, though, so even more of a "slight hold" may feel necessary. don't think we know the frames but you should be able to 2H YRC, yeah. 5H and 6H should be able to hit a stationary Eddie. At a spacing where 5H'ing Eddie would be a threat, Zato is probably in a range where he can threaten to Drill anyways, so it is not that big of an issue, but he can definitely use coin and mist finer low, as well as 2S, to hit Eddie. Proper usage of Drill to protect Eddie is important. Generally you can keep it alive if you play well, though Zato must respect Coin, but Coin is a limited resource. Think of like Sol and gunflame. Annoying, but doesnt really shut him down completely by itself. The above is based on my experience playing the MU in previous versions, but it should still stand. RE Jack-O: I recall hitting certain things of hers counting as a whiff, rather than a hit, but I dont remember if its the houses or the goons. Possibly both? Best to check the Jack O info. level affects the startup on mist finer. So yes, there are some combos that only work at certain levels. Please refer to the mist cancel chart on the Johnny ACR wiki for reference. Example: 2H > MC > airdash j.P, 5H>5H, and f.S>f.S only combo at LV2. -Not sure. My guess is that if it hits OTG either a) it does not pop up and they just plummet (This happens with his air super in +R) or b) it launches he's still in OTG state so any subsequent hits make him fall out (what happens if you J super RC in +R). (I'm assuming you mean right after the coin forces block, not OTG) Bacchus Sigh functions the same way it did in previous versions. However, this version of Bacchus sigh spawns really far behind Johnny, and Zwei knockdown sets them kinda far from him in many combos, so often times if you mist YRC and coin, the mist will not stick on them in time. You will often see mist YRC > coin > 2S > unblockable and YRC > coin > coin > UB instead. You can blitzshield both 2S and the coin as ways to escape, so usually if you see Johnny players not doing oki after mist YRC, its because they're baiting some sort of reversal attempt. Even without going for unblockable, being at LV2 and them misted is still an extremely favorable situation, so many players opt to avoid the mixup of going for UB. Compared to AC, it is much easier to escape in general, due to the presence of blitzshield and the mist location. There is also the fact that most Johnny players, JP especially, tend to overthink their unblockable setups and excessively play around the escape options instead. I'm not going to pretend to know a lot about his actual MU's in Revelator, though according to that esports runner list, Sin gives him the hardest time? Since Johnny is very much based on risk/reward, its pretty hard to even use old matchup info as a basis, since his reward / abare is so much more skewed in Revelator. Though Johnny does lack some defensive options, the general determining factors for what matchups were tough or not for him basically had to do with evaluating a) difficulty of getting in, and b) reward once you do get on them. Some past examples to illustrate that would be matchups like Testament, Zappa, Faust, where getting in on them is extremely tough, and maintaining momentum on them also has their difficulties. Thus generally considered unfavorable matchups. Meanwhile, matchups like Millia, Eddie, Chipp, were matchups where Johnny struggles to get in, but once he does, is able to get so much reward that the matchup is either even or slight Johnny favor. Revelator Johnny has a lot of extra things that change both factors in his favor. It's easier for him to get in due to things like Zweihander YRC, the more zoomed in camera, etc. He also gets way more of a reward off if basically any hit. Practically any hit he gets will generally lead to corner carry into unblockable setup. His air to air abare and ability to get knockdowns off of anything are probably the biggest improvements in this regard, allowing him to preserve his momentum. Not to mention easy zweikasu. The buff to 2S is also honestly BY ITSELF a game changer, since once of Johnny's old glaring weaknesses was that most of his primary pokes were easily low profiled (5K, f.S, 5H, 6H, Coin), and was forced to use 2K and 2S to stuff them, both of which were pretty mediocre moves in XX. Since 2S is amazing now though, its no longer a handicap to use them. The buff to 2S alone is probably an extremely integral part to improving many of his matchups, such as SO, IN, FA, and MA. An easy way to think of it is that in Revelator, they gave him very many tools that inherently made up for his actual weaknesses. So he doesn't really struggle as much as in previous versions, He is definitely still considered really strong, generally considered S. I would not even bother thinking about the "nerf"s that he got. It's very minor in the overall scope of how the character functions. 6K is very useful. It's +2, not -4. Any move that moves you forward and is + on block is good in my book :P. On top of that it low profiles under a lot of moves, gives you great damage on CH, and moves you hella forward. The current 6K is extremely strong due to the presence of moves like 6H which will easily punish attempts to stuff 6K. You can follow up on a grounded hit, because it launches, leading to an air combo + KD at the very least. More if at LV2.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1xCt8Ps5QsUUEbBM3QoiyOzDfqUHNFVtq47vfROkOiSg/mobilebasic Section in question is near the bottom. A few chars might be incomplete, what char do you use? Also yeahbackdash is the cleanest method, though it will not punish blink into orb or air backdash. For hard punishes, most chars have an OS, as listed in my notes.

Please refer to my Seth Notes which are posted on the front page. There's an extensive explanation on how to deal with it, listing both universal and character specific answer. You can definitely jump and hit him. You can backdash or forward dash and punish his landing recovery. You can air shield and falling j.A punish him. If you have read the notes thoroughly and need further assistance feel free to ask.

I'm just kind of mindblown at how thinking Coin is jump cancellable would not immediately set off all kinds of alarms lol....

This is apparently not the case, though what you may be experiencing is the fact that the total duration of Coin got reduced from 20 to 17 frames. I'm pretty sure this whole cancelling into FD is also not true.

Did you just say coin is jump cancellable? I forgot to mention that I had tenkai confirm that this is not the case.

It being off by 1 frame due to not counting the 1st active frame does make sense, everything basically seems to be off by 1 for the most part. Also the mist stance frame data being not off by 1 also makes sense, since there's no actual active frame to mess it up. The only issue would be 8F f.S: when the loketest occured, it was reported that it was 7F. It could really be either or. I'll ask if ppl can test, it's actually not hard: if its 7F, then f.S > f.S should combo on crouching at MC lvl 1. A few extra misc tidbits: I forgot to mention 2K > 2H which is definitely also a gatling. Satu has been using it very often recently as a nice frame trap. 2K is naturally +2 (well at least I hope it still is), so he's been using a lot of 2K > 2H or 2K, delay 2K/ dash throw / etc Airthrow is sad now, cant really combo off of it as easily, and chucks them a lot closer to you. There were several large jp text resources posted recently regarding Johnny combos, unsure if anyone has posted them here or not. I might translate them later if I have time. One very interesting thing worth noting was the following route: [corner] bnb ending in air lvl 2 high ender for hard KD > land mist YRC > meaty 2H (blocked) > delay air mf lvl 1 mid > coin > c.S > etc. I can't really imagine how that last part works in my head but if so that's preeeeeeetty crazy. Being able to loop from a raw lvl 1 unblockable meterless is :o Also most people might have noticed those xmenkaicho combos floating around for a while with lvl 3 mid into mist etc. I would just like to point out that one thing thats very great about the use of Treasure Hunt as the ender of the first portion of the loop, is that they cannot down burst - very nice for guaranteeing the setup.