[Xrd] Potemkin Gameplay Discussion

[Jandr]

Earlier was playing, and had a thought. How much better would Pot be with a 720. What do you guys think?

[Gasaraki]

Hey, I've heard some people talk about pot buster being nerfed from previous versions. Is this true? Did it then get un-nerfed or something?

 

Looking at the wiki, in AC+, character health is 460, and pot buster does 160 damage. In Xrd, character health is 420, and pot buster does 140. Obviously 140 is less than 160, but some simple dividing shows that it went from doing almost 35% damage, to doing a bit over 33% damage. (assuming a defense mod of 1.00, of course) While still a nerf it doesn't seem like much to get upset about.

 

I think it was moreso that people thought it was nerfed from AC+R, but then it turns out this game was developed based on #R(the game itself even says that in the glossary). So seeing it that way I don't think it was nerfed in any special way. 

[Osuna]

Wasn't the PB nerf that it has a shorter range now? 

[Red Star]

Hey, I've heard some people talk about pot buster being nerfed from previous versions. Is this true? Did it then get un-nerfed or something?

 

Looking at the wiki, in AC+, character health is 460, and pot buster does 160 damage. In Xrd, character health is 420, and pot buster does 140. Obviously 140 is less than 160, but some simple dividing shows that it went from doing almost 35% damage, to doing a bit over 33% damage. (assuming a defense mod of 1.00, of course) While still a nerf it doesn't seem like much to get upset about.

AC+ could be FRC'd, which makes this version not even close. Maybe it is the way the camera is in Xrd, but the grab range also feels a quite a bit shorter. And though it isn't a PB nerf, the YRC Pot Buster do less damage, and since a lot of my PBs come from Hammerfall YRC the Pot busters start feeling really weak.

[Darlos9D]

Grab range still seems pretty silly long to me, considering he seems to pull people in from farther than his hands stick out. Even if it was nerfed, it still seems damn good.

 

Regarding FRCs I was only really talking about the damage itself. (also, I'll be honest, I don't miss FRCs as a general concept at ALL) I didn't notice the YRC thing. Do YRCs really force proration on anything you follow up with even if it's not mid-combo? I suppose it is kind of a tradeoff. YRCs ARE really good...

 

Earlier was playing, and had a thought. How much better would Pot be with a 720. What do you guys think?

 

Considering how often with Tager I've thought "I'd give up GETB if I got better meterless tools in return," I'm sorta afraid how Pot would end up getting balanced with an actual super command throw at his disposal.

[OneSanitarium]

Has Potemkin always been able to flick another Pot's Slidehead? I don't recall this being a thing in previous games.

[Red Star]

Grab range still seems pretty silly long to me, considering he seems to pull people in from farther than his hands stick out. Even if it was nerfed, it still seems damn good.

 

Regarding FRCs I was only really talking about the damage itself. (also, I'll be honest, I don't miss FRCs as a general concept at ALL) I didn't notice the YRC thing. Do YRCs really force proration on anything you follow up with even if it's not mid-combo? I suppose it is kind of a tradeoff. YRCs ARE really good...

PB while the screen is still dark from the YRC will cause the move to get the damage nerf from RCs. Pretty sure the same goes for basically anyone in regards to YRC. Depending on the character that can be a 20 to 30 damage loss to PB, which kind of stinks.

 

Has Potemkin always been able to flick another Pot's Slidehead? I don't recall this being a thing in previous games.

As far as at least AC  I don't believe so. Only thing he could flick of Pot's moves was Gigantor mirror and his flick projectile. They might have added it because you can Blitz shield slide head, or cause Gigantor isn't flicakble anymore.

[Koozebanian Fazoob]

PB while the screen is still dark from the YRC will cause the move to get the damage nerf from RCs. Pretty sure the same goes for basically anyone in regards to YRC. Depending on the character that can be a 20 to 30 damage loss to PB, which kind of stinks.

Yeah, that's how RCs just work in general. RCs don't actually cause the proration at all, hitting someone in slow time causes it. Which also means when you RRC in a combo, if you just wait until slow time ends before hitting them again, you will have no forced proration at all. This only works with moves that actually have enough hitstun to let you do that of course, but it's good to know.

[Darlos9D]

Yeah, I was experimenting with doing something else out of HF YRC and THEN tick throwing, so I'd escape the slow motion. Makes it more predictable I guess, but hey, they still have a Potemkin in their face.

[Circuitous]

Commenting on a few things, whoop.

I think Xrd Potemkin is fun. I find his neutral game more enjoyable thanks to YRC gimmicks and the unpredictability that extends from that. I think his pressure and combo game is less fun now, but still entertaining. On the whole I think I like +R Potemkin more, but yeah.

Potemkin Buster wasn't nerfed, in range or damage (it always did 140 before AC+R, and its range adds up to the same as +R). However, getting a Buster out of an RC does make it do less damage, which I imagine is why we initially thought it did less damage/damage seemed random against the lifebars. Knowing what we know now, it clearly was not nerfed, just the combination of Guts kicking in earlier/harder and RC damage scaling makes it feel that way sometimes.

To clarify RCs: all RCs prorate 80% while the screen is dark. So if you, for example, did a YRC and waited until the screen darkening went away, you'd get full damage. Not always something you can practically do, but keep it in mind.

Flicking Slidehead: YO WHAT. This is amazing. Potemkin mirrors didn't need to be sillier but I'm kinda glad they are.

[Solid Gold Wall]

Earlier was playing, and had a thought. How much better would Pot be with a 720. What do you guys think?

if i had to choose between heavenly and a typical 720, i'd take heavenly all day

[Circuitous]

I feel like if Potemkin's survived 16 years without a 720 he probably doesn't need one. Buster already does as much damage as some Overdrives.

[SoWL]

Who the hell uses Overdrives, anyways?

[Osuna]

I think the number one reason potemkin can be a good character is because he doesn't have a 720. Having a 720 changes his design space a lot and overall I think it would be for the worse. 

 

First off, the 720 has to be notably better than his pot buster, for this to be reasonable pot buster would have to be nerfed. HPB wouldn't have come to be if the throw super design space was used up either. This shifts around damage potential, and risk reward for several situation in a way that would be far less reliable. After that there would be a range of nerfs on the various ways Pot could aggressively pursue a pot buster now that would have to happen to compensate for the high damage 720 overdrive, since otherwise Pot would be intensely unfun to play against for a large percentage of the player base.

 

I honestly wish Tager didn't have a 720. I never liked it. It gives up momentum even if it lands and I much rather have more ways to oppress my opponent. It is ok defensively, but I would trade it for a more reliable defensive options in a heartbeat. It is also my opinion that 720 is the reason that Tager gets nerfed so frequently. They are trying to keep 720 under control while also keeping it really high on his tiers of damage potential.

[Jandr]

I think the number one reason potemkin can be a good character is because he doesn't have a 720. Having a 720 changes his design space a lot and overall I think it would be for the worse. 

 

First off, the 720 has to be notably better than his pot buster, for this to be reasonable pot buster would have to be nerfed. HPB wouldn't have come to be if the throw super design space was used up either. This shifts around damage potential, and risk reward for several situation in a way that would be far less reliable. After that there would be a range of nerfs on the various ways Pot could aggressively pursue a pot buster now that would have to happen to compensate for the high damage 720 overdrive, since otherwise Pot would be intensely unfun to play against for a large percentage of the player base.

 

I honestly wish Tager didn't have a 720. I never liked it. It gives up momentum even if it lands and I much rather have more ways to oppress my opponent. It is ok defensively, but I would trade it for a more reliable defensive options in a heartbeat. It is also my opinion that 720 is the reason that Tager gets nerfed so frequently. They are trying to keep 720 under control while also keeping it really high on his tiers of damage potential.

I tend to agree, however ssf2t was my first fighting game when i was much younger. Zangief, and T hawk started my grappling love. Then years later after not playing fgs forever, picked up Blazblue. Soon as I saw GETB, I shit my pants.

[Miracleknight]

So flicking Elphelt's grenade when she throws it seems mostly worthless, wondering if you can flick the explosion though like the bombs and ignore it? I notice now there is a post with the FDB list so I'm assuming that is in fact the case. That should help a bit against her It think? Has been the most frustrating matchup this far, it at least made me appreciate and understand the Faust matchup more.

I haven't gone into the lab to look at learning ways out of the unblockable setups yet but I swear I heavenly bustered out once. Though that may have been a mistake on their part? I might have the replay. Wondering if reversal flick works now that I saw that list...

[Circuitous]

You can flick the thrown grenade and its explosion, but she should be on your ass if a grenade's near you, so it's not necessarily the best call.

As for getting out of the unblockable setups, Hammerfall works, though whether you should let it rock, break, or YRC depends on the situation. Heavenly, being a fully invuln reversal, will get you out just fine, but you probably don't need to spend that meter, and she could react to superflash and aim up to tag you once you're vulnerable.

Reversal flick is only an option if the grenade isn't thrown to explode meaty. Flick doesn't reflect until the 4th frame. But if it works, you're strike invuln for the recovery, so the shot will miss, at least.

[WolfCrimson]

Q: What do you guys use to option-select Pot's normal throw? Is 6S+HS good? Or is it not a good idea to use an OS here?

Also, is mini-faust flickable?

[Koozebanian Fazoob]

Yeah 6S+H seems like the best option to me. It's only 9F startup and it's got a real nice hitbox.

Someone posted a full list a few pages back of what's flickable. Specifically for Faust ..

Can Flick:

100-Ton Weight - You don't get knocked down.

Poison - The cloud part, takes a while before it's active.

Small Faust - Can't flick it on the way down, only while it's walking on the ground, and it's pretty tight since it moves slow.

Hammer

Meteor

Bomb - Trick with this one is that the bomb makes 3 'boink' noises to count down the explosion, you want to flick right after the third boink.

Baghead

Oil Drum Explosion - It's later than it looks.

Can't Flick: Platform, Doughnut, Chocolate, Helium, Black Hole, Oil Drum

[Darlos9D]

no I wanted to flick the doughnut

[Soviet Bear]

Will we be doing match-up threads or should we ask match-up specific questions here?

[Koozebanian Fazoob]

I think just ask questions in here. If we get to the point where we have a lot of good matchup writeups we could probably have a single thread to collect them.

[WolfCrimson]

We can flick the meteors?! I bet getting the timing right is a bitch though.

[Koozebanian Fazoob]

I think their exact drop formation is random too isn't it? Either way I couldn't really recommend even trying to do it.

[Circuitous]

Meteor formation feels more consistent in Xrd but idk? The reflect window is long enough that it doesn't really matter, I think.