[UNIEL] Chaos

[Rikir]

6C is cancellable on whiff? what?! O_o eugh...im gonna try that tommorow.

Btw anyone knows how to deal with Orie vs Chaos Match-up?

im having a rough time. since her moves are really good and has good range...i cant punish most of her moves with Chaos cuz of lack of range and her pressure game is just too good.

only super cancellable mind you. 6C counts as a special I guess.

[khmxspider]

so ive tried the 22b oki set-up. it seems like they can just Throw you and beat the set up :l

[Ross]

Chaos v. Orie seems like its in chaos' favor once you get the knockdown. I general just play it slow and abuse 6c when possible to get your knockdown and then run your mixup game. If orie run use beast to threaten. because of where alot of her air moves hits 236+b is actually decent anti-air. Try and shield divine thrust to get advantage and neutral jump in ranges where you think she will be divine thrusting in to try and smack her out of it. You can almost always mash 2a out of strings into over head. Just block low, watch for the overhead and roll (or shield) out of jump ins. Thats all I got so far, oh and try and predict backdashes by assaulting and delaying your attack out of assault to punish and when she has vorpal block more than you think as chain shift is so power ful for her to start her offense. Like wise 6c chain shift is very vaulable for you to start your offense.

[chemical ninja]

so ive tried the 22b oki set-up. it seems like they can just Throw you and beat the set up :l

Try to hit them before they throw you to get them to respect the mixup.

[Rikir]

so ive tried the 22b oki set-up. it seems like they can just Throw you and beat the set up :l

You can just air dash over them instead of rolling. It works fine if you do it fast enough.

[Crimefighter]

so ive tried the 22b oki set-up. it seems like they can just Throw you and beat the set up :l

It depends on your starter how long the knockdown is, worse starters leave more outs, if you get a 2c starter you can roll through the throw, on an A starter you have to assault it (or backdash, or jump, or etc.) which leaves you open to other wake up options. IDK what's best off of any given starter, but I'm pretty sure there's no universally perfect option off of 5/2a, so just be smarter than your opponent and it shouldn't be an issue.

You can just air dash over them instead of rolling. It works fine if you do it fast enough.

Chaos doesn't have an air dash so I'm not sure what you mean, but you can't cross-up in this game unless you turn around midair or have something special like chaos's BC. I can't find any way of jumping forward and landing fast enough to get a cross-up.

[khmxspider]

Chaos v. Orie seems like its in chaos' favor once you get the knockdown. I general just play it slow and abuse 6c when possible to get your knockdown and then run your mixup game. If orie run use beast to threaten. because of where alot of her air moves hits 236+b is actually decent anti-air. Try and shield divine thrust to get advantage and neutral jump in ranges where you think she will be divine thrusting in to try and smack her out of it. You can almost always mash 2a out of strings into over head. Just block low, watch for the overhead and roll (or shield) out of jump ins. Thats all I got so far, oh and try and predict backdashes by assaulting and delaying your attack out of assault to punish and when she has vorpal block more than you think as chain shift is so power ful for her to start her offense. Like wise 6c chain shift is very vaulable for you to start your offense.

-Ive spend so many hours in the lab trying to understand the match-up and see where i can punish her.

-Most of the time you have to respect her blockstrings :/

-Chaos has to rely on knockdown Vortex game to win the match-up. :l

-her divine trust are hard to block with shield on reaction :l

--A version is safe even with blue shield

--B version can be punish with blue shield -> 236C super (nothing else works)

--I didnt test the Charged version, cuz i didnt know she had one.

-using 6C against Divine Trust means you need to have good reads, cuz that move is really really fast. ive tried on reaction, its not worth it.

-i need to find a way to catch her ridiculous backdash that covers a lot of distance... even Chaos has a slow walk speed i think ill test if rolling actually is better than dashing when she backdashes.

 

-playing lame can make the player become impatient and do unsafe stuff, so i have to pay attention to that.

Anyone found an application with UNIEL frame data?

[Rikir]

It depends on your starter how long the knockdown is, worse starters leave more outs, if you get a 2c starter you can roll through the throw, on an A starter you have to assault it (or backdash, or jump, or etc.) which leaves you open to other wake up options. IDK what's best off of any given starter, but I'm pretty sure there's no universally perfect option off of 5/2a, so just be smarter than your opponent and it shouldn't be an issue.

Chaos doesn't have an air dash so I'm not sure what you mean, but you can't cross-up in this game unless you turn around midair or have something special like chaos's BC. I can't find any way of jumping forward and landing fast enough to get a cross-up.

By air dash, I mean jumping assault of course. If you do it fast enough, then it will cross up on time. Obviously loses to DPs or whatever, but if theyre mashing throw then thats a valid option.

 

-Ive spend so many hours in the lab trying to understand the match-up and see where i can punish her.

-Most of the time you have to respect her blockstrings :/

-Chaos has to rely on knockdown Vortex game to win the match-up. :l

-her divine trust are hard to block with shield on reaction :l

--A version is safe even with blue shield

--B version can be punish with blue shield -> 236C super, nothing else works)

--I didnt test the Charged version, cuz i didnt know she had one.

-using 6C against Divine Trust means you need to have good reads, cuz that move is really really fast. ive tried on reaction, its not worth it.

-i need to find a way to catch her ridiculous backdash that covers a lot of distance... even Chaos has a slow walk speed i think ill test if rolling actually is better than dashing when she backdashes.

 

-playing lame can make the play become impatient and do unsafe stuff, so i have to pay attention to that.

Anyone found an application with UNIEL frame data?

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1De7GMR--Ycdnir8rto3rpztm7_LHeqJYqzyrjYlFviU/htmlview?pli=1&sle=true#

 

This has been out for awhile

[Ross]

 

-using 6C against Divine Trust means you need to have good reads, cuz that move is really really fast. ive tried on reaction, its not worth it.

 

This is very true. But you need to only use 6c at the tip of its range against divine thrust where she will have to run into it if you mispredicted. otherwise yes it is too dangerous.

[Crimefighter]

By air dash, I mean jumping assault of course. If you do it fast enough, then it will cross up on time. Obviously loses to DPs or whatever, but if theyre mashing throw then thats a valid option.

When exactly does the 22b hit occur? How are you getting around cross-up prevention?

[Rikir]

When exactly does the 22b hit occur? How are you getting around cross-up prevention?

Yknow what ill just post a video. Gimme like 10 minutes.

EDIT: Ill do it in the morning, its late lol.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdQegw5M6t8&feature=youtu.be

There done. Im holding down back with P1 while P2 does the setup. Only thing is that if you start off with 2A you should do the setup off j.2C instead of 2C at the end of your combo. Otherwise its exactly the way it looks.

[Crimefighter]

That's really weird, I guess assault resets your character side or something. What's weirder is that this has really inconsistent results. I recorded the same set-up (first one in the video) you had, but it only worked vs chaos and wald at first. Then I tried again and got one that only worked against gord, seth, and merkava. Then one thqt worked on gord, hilda, orie, hyde, vatista, yuzuriha, and akatsuki. I guess I could just be not timing it properly, but it doesn't look wrong. What's weirdest though is that everyone can walk backwards and prevent it from crossing up, except for merkava, hilda, and vatista. They had some kind of extra animation (they seemed to be able to cancel it into most stuff, just not into walking). Again IDK what correct timing is so maybe this only happens if you screw something up?

edit: This(weird character specificity) appears to be the case with all my cross-up set-ups too. Might just be a bug in training mode? It almost seems like the recording gets messed up between character select.

More importantly I found that holding shield corrects you guard direction for a little while (Not forever, but long enough). So in theory you can get past all cross-ups by shielding. Opens you up to getting grd brken obviously, but still.

edit: Also I can't believe I never noticed, but if you do j.2c>2c>22b>bc it appears to beat most things (including hyde dp and throw)via spacing the only problem with that is it leaves you in a worse position vs back tech.

[LordSpectreX]

Seems to be fairly dependent how they block. If they crouch block, they'll stay in place and it will cross up. If they stand block, they will end up walking back slightly, making it stay on the same side.

 

By the way.

 

Jump over > j623A> Land > 236A>fast22A>jump over. Enjoy.

[Rikir]

If anything we're still sticking to BC roll instead of air dash over except in the situations where we expect getting thrown lol. 
 

 

Seems to be fairly dependent how they block. If they crouch block, they'll stay in place and it will cross up. If they stand block, they will end up walking back slightly, making it stay on the same side.

 

By the way.

 

Jump over > j623A> Land > 236A>fast22A>jump over. Enjoy.

Delicious.

[BRIAN_KYO]

some ideas when I was looking for a combo with damage

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XpSJfttHb8

[Crimefighter]

If anything we're still sticking to BC roll instead of air dash over except in the situations where we expect getting thrown

in searching for answers to the incredibly arbitrary stuff I happened upon I accidentally found a set-up that baits almost every reversal and cannot be thrown that you can do off of a 2a starter. I'll make a video later, but basically 2a>2a>2b>2c>5cc>jb>jc>j2c>2c>22b*>bc

*you need to do the 22b as soon as possible, delaying it at all seems to fuck up everything.

The extra pushback from the 2c means the startup on roll happens mostly out of range. But it also means you can't really catch a back tech very well. There's some other silliness.

edit: here it is I got lazy and didn't record everything it baits, but it's almost all of them.

[BRIAN_KYO]

I forget to try with Infinite Worth
 

http://youtu.be/GAyV_cBWX1k

 

 

[Rikir]

So if youre wondering what happens when Chaos 6C hits with another Chaos 6C, both reflects will activate and both Chaos players will get hit at the same time rofl.

[khmxspider]

Interesting. When ill have time, ill write it down in my notes.

[khmxspider]

in searching for answers to the incredibly arbitrary stuff I happened upon I accidentally found a set-up that baits almost every reversal and cannot be thrown that you can do off of a 2a starter. I'll make a video later, but basically 2a>2a>2b>2c>5cc>jb>jc>j2c>2c>22b*>bc

*you need to do the 22b as soon as possible, delaying it at all seems to fuck up everything.

The extra pushback from the 2c means the startup on roll happens mostly out of range. But it also means you can't really catch a back tech very well. There's some other silliness.

edit: here it is I got lazy and didn't record everything it baits, but it's almost all of them.

I meant write that down, not the 6c trade lol which is funny xD

[BRIAN_KYO]

Hi guys another combovideo enjoy

 

http://youtu.be/gwJ6OF_RpYI

[Rikir]

So if youre fighting Orie. if she does her 22C super you can 22C on reaction and then roll to get out of the way of her Persona while Azhi stops her from trying to punish you.

[BRIAN_KYO]

A funny moment xD
http://youtu.be/mGhgiCY3V1o

[sinder]

A puppet character with no mix ups?

 

lol no thanks

[mAceOfHearts]

His mix-up is basically Normals - Specials - Whiff Cancel - Assault or throw.

Pretty bad.Oki is a bit better, but Carmine's got him beat there.