pokemonblaze234 Posted August 12, 2014 Posted August 12, 2014 I forgot to mention that I was trying to do a stylish combo with good damage.
NecroTheReaper Posted August 12, 2014 Posted August 12, 2014 Out of curiosity, anyone had any success with mindgames involving the fact that j.B finishes its startup animation before the active frames come in? Seems like it could be good for people who can react to assault mixup and end up getting grabbed after your move wiffed cuz of the fast animation.
logichole Posted August 12, 2014 Posted August 12, 2014 Fun trick. If someone is trying to mash out of your 236A/B followups (either because you've been dropping them, or because they want to punish 6C cross-through or hit you out of 6B startup) you can do a nasty frame-trap into the 6A followup. It staggers and you can get a Very Large combo afterwards. You can make the frametrap attempt safe by either using chain shift or by doing 214C after the 6A. If the trap works you can combo off of the 214C, otherwise it's still safe.
pokemonblaze234 Posted August 12, 2014 Posted August 12, 2014 Whats a good follow up to 66B? All that I came up with was this 66B>236A~6C>665B>jBB>IjC>j236A>stuff
Clear Sky Posted August 13, 2014 Posted August 13, 2014 Whats a good follow up to 66B? All that I came up with was this 66B>236A~6C>665B>jBB>IjC>j236A>stuff 236A/B does not seem hit confirmable off of 66B and it is punishable on block. I suggest that you use either 66B > chainshift, or 66B > 214C which is a true blockstring and gives you frame advantage on block.
pokemonblaze234 Posted August 13, 2014 Posted August 13, 2014 It is hit confimable of 66B and wouild it really be good to use cs just to get more damage of 66B? but all specials (I think) are hit confirmable of 66B.
Clear Sky Posted August 13, 2014 Posted August 13, 2014 I don't think it is. And anyway, with my style of play I barely use 66B/66C to begin with, so I don't have really worry about making either move safe. Yes, I think it would be better not to use chainshift in that situation but I don't see many ways to make the move safe on block. You can try using FF but versus some characters you are risking to get hit by air unblockables. Edit: I just double checked to make sure. Yeah, I still don't think it is really hitconfirmable, but if you can you won't have great options on block overall. Since you are trying to hitconfirm off of 66B, you're losing frame advantage since you are delaying your follow up. Keeping that in mind, I tried some setups you'd be most likely to try to use to make your 66B safe when it gets blocked in that situation: 66B > FF > j.236A/B -Punishable by any decent reversal. 66B > FF > j.236C -Doing this sequence as fast as possible, normally this would be a blockstring. However with trying to hitconfirm with 66B, it appears you leave a small enough gap to get punished. 66B > FF+[4] -How punishable depends on how early you canceled into FF. Chances are you did it super late because you were trying to hit confirm 236A/B, so you will get blown up by good reversals. 66B > 214C -With the hitconfirm it seems safer than the other options. You might win vs some reversals, but you'll definitely lose to ones that are quicker and have invincibility frames. This is sort of why I think my options that I gave you in my other post are better, if you are going to even use 66B to begin with.
logichole Posted August 14, 2014 Posted August 14, 2014 (edited) Another fun trick! You know how most moves can be cancelled into Chain Shift on block or hit? Well. 236A/B (whiff) > 6B is chain-shift cancellable *before* the 6B overhead leap hits. Time your press of D D so that the second D is just past the peak of the jump arc as you start descending. The timing is tight but you will Chain Shift before hitting the opponent. After the CS Nanase fast-falls to the ground perfectly positioned to grab the opponent or resume pressure with 5A/2A. You fall too fast for any air normals to come out but you can also use j.236A/B/C, Assault, or B+C float before hitting the ground. This CS point is only available if the 236A/B whiffs. If that first hit connects, the only chain shift point on the 6B followup is after the overhead hit. There are probably some interesting setups based on this CS, especially if wind balls are in play. Also, if the opponent is trying to react to 236X and DP out of your followups this might even work as a safejump. Nanase lands *really fast*. For what it's worth it looks like the fastest allowable timing for the 6A/B/C press is 5 frames after the 236A/B begins. it might be possible to ensure that the first hit of 236A/B never comes out at all. I'd have to experiment further. I looked for similar CS options on the 6A and 6C followups but didn't find anything there on 236A/B, hit or whiff. Edited August 14, 2014 by logichole
Ice Cube Posted August 14, 2014 Posted August 14, 2014 Speaking of which, 236X>6B (blocked) > CS > FF j.B/ land 2B seems a pretty solid CS mix-up. About as close to real 50/50 high/low as Nanase can get. Similarly, you can do corner throw > assault > late FF j.B / land 2B / land block reversal. Both setup takes around 40 frame from before you can press B (from training mode counter), so they should have similar startup.
Sashi Posted August 15, 2014 Posted August 15, 2014 http://finalclause.dantarion.com/hitboxes/#10/9/5 http://finalclause.dantarion.com/hitboxes/#10/1/3 http://finalclause.dantarion.com/hitboxes/#10/5/4 Nanase has good hitboxes. That's why she's a good character. http://finalclause.dantarion.com/hitboxes/#5/6/6
Icekin Posted August 15, 2014 Posted August 15, 2014 http://finalclause.dantarion.com/hitboxes/#10/9/5 http://finalclause.dantarion.com/hitboxes/#10/1/3 http://finalclause.dantarion.com/hitboxes/#10/5/4 Nanase has good hitboxes. That's why she's a good character. http://finalclause.dantarion.com/hitboxes/#5/6/6 wow.
Vvvv Posted August 15, 2014 Posted August 15, 2014 hi. i went through and did a thing 5Ahttp://finalclause.dantarion.com/hitboxes/#10/1/3 5Bhttp://finalclause.dantarion.com/hitboxes/#10/2/2 5Chttp://finalclause.dantarion.com/hitboxes/#10/3/5 2Ahttp://finalclause.dantarion.com/hitboxes/#10/4/2 2Bhttp://finalclause.dantarion.com/hitboxes/#10/5/4 2Chttp://finalclause.dantarion.com/hitboxes/#10/6/5 j.Ahttp://finalclause.dantarion.com/hitboxes/#10/7/2 j.Bhttp://finalclause.dantarion.com/hitboxes/#10/8/5 j.Chttp://finalclause.dantarion.com/hitboxes/#10/25/1 j.[C]http://finalclause.dantarion.com/hitboxes/#10/9/5 Throwhttp://finalclause.dantarion.com/hitboxes/#10/55/1 everything else doesn't work/broken/missing also I dunno what the fuck this actually is but I'm leaning towards it being throw tech.http://finalclause.dantarion.com/hitboxes/#10/60/2
drugtown Posted August 15, 2014 Posted August 15, 2014 http://finalclause.dantarion.com/hitboxes/#10/9/5 http://finalclause.dantarion.com/hitboxes/#10/1/3 http://finalclause.dantarion.com/hitboxes/#10/5/4 Nanase has good hitboxes. That's why she's a good character. http://finalclause.dantarion.com/hitboxes/#5/6/6 hahaha oh my fucking god
logichole Posted August 15, 2014 Posted August 15, 2014 For what it's worth it looks like the fastest allowable timing for the 6A/B/C press is 5 frames after the 236A/B begins. it might be possible to ensure that the first hit of 236A/B never comes out at all. I'd have to experiment further. I looked for similar CS options on the 6A and 6C followups but didn't find anything there on 236A/B, hit or whiff. As a followup on this: It *is* possible to do 236A/B > 6B followup so quickly that the 236 doesn't hit, even at point blank range. For the 6A and 6C followups that is not true - if you are in range the 236 will always hit no matter what speed you press the followup. There is also a chainshift point on 236A/B (whiff) > 6C followup before the slide animation completes. It only works when the 236 whiffs, but you can cut the 6C slide about in half with the CS.
RurouniLoneWolf Posted August 16, 2014 Posted August 16, 2014 These are some pretty interesting finds. I'll have to experiment with them a bit a little later. Thanks for sharing this info with us, logichole!
logichole Posted August 16, 2014 Posted August 16, 2014 Glad to just document some of the weird stuff I'm seeing. I hope folks can find some uses for my notes. I'm still trying to pin down what determines whether the 6A followup crosses through the opponent. You can cross through (or not) whether the first hit connects or not, but it seems to be more complex than just button timing or distance travelled. It might be related to how *far you push the opponent* but that doesn't make sense entirely when you can cross through on a 236A (whiff)... I feel like Nanase has some really neat setups that haven't been explored yet.
Ragnarok_F4 Posted August 16, 2014 Posted August 16, 2014 Guys, what are doing in blockstrings to keep up the pressure? I think we should be abusing the whiff cancels like some other chars, I've been experimenting in the lab some stuff, but I haven't tried them in a real match yet, so I still don't know how it will work out. This is the one that I'm messing around: 2A > 2B > 2C > 5C > 5B > 5A (whiff) > 2C > 2A(whiff) > 2C > 2A (whiff), the next 2C will whiff, so now you have good space, if the matchup allows you can send a fireball, if not, you can try a frametrap with 236. If the make an assault between the string maybe you can react with 3C, or the DP and punish it. But dunno, that's what I'm asking what do you do, that kind of string is giving free GRD. I've been doing autopilot into 236 in my strings and i want to get that out.
Icekin Posted August 17, 2014 Posted August 17, 2014 Try to always whiff 2a over 5a if possible, it has a much more subtle animation. after a whiff, you can go for low/assault/empty assault+grab, dash grab, 66b FF j.236b, etc. There's no magical nanase trick to do after a 2a whiff that'll really work every time, you just have to be unpredictable and make the right call. And yeah, don't use 236 on block, ever. The overhead just doesn't work (it will on new players and in terrible lag, but that's not important.) On a side note, Nanase can punish Merkava's long range hitgrab (214a) from about a screen length away on shield block with 236C into 3.2k dmg. Neat.
silverhydra Posted August 18, 2014 Posted August 18, 2014 also I dunno what the fuck this actually is but I'm leaning towards it being throw tech.http://finalclause.dantarion.com/hitboxes/#10/60/2 Guard Thrust, most likely.
pulsr Posted August 21, 2014 Posted August 21, 2014 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=It6pxWzQMu these totally work midscreen.
Rhapsody Posted August 21, 2014 Posted August 21, 2014 This video does not exist. Pulsr forgot to copy the 'k' at the end lol https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=It6pxWzQMuk
Abyssal Darkshadow Posted August 21, 2014 Posted August 21, 2014 Guys, what are doing in blockstrings to keep up the pressure? I think we should be abusing the whiff cancels like some other chars, I've been experimenting in the lab some stuff, but I haven't tried them in a real match yet, so I still don't know how it will work out. This is the one that I'm messing around: 2A > 2B > 2C > 5C > 5B > 5A (whiff) > 2C > 2A(whiff) > 2C > 2A (whiff), the next 2C will whiff, so now you have good space, if the matchup allows you can send a fireball, if not, you can try a frametrap with 236. If the make an assault between the string maybe you can react with 3C, or the DP and punish it. But dunno, that's what I'm asking what do you do, that kind of string is giving free GRD. I've been doing autopilot into 236 in my strings and i want to get that out. I feel stagger strings are super important to Nanase pressure. Like in Melty Blood but unlike in ArcSys games, you can do your chains well after the hitstop ends on a move, allowing you to insert frame traps basically wherever you want, and with Nanase's excellent range on her B and C moves you can insert staggers wherever you feel like pretty safely (though, watch out for metered reversals.) When your opponents learn to respect your stagger strings you can run whatever pressure you want for free. Try to always whiff 2a over 5a if possible, it has a much more subtle animation. after a whiff, you can go for low/assault/empty assault+grab, dash grab, 66b FF j.236b, etc. There's no magical nanase trick to do after a 2a whiff that'll really work every time, you just have to be unpredictable and make the right call. And yeah, don't use 236 on block, ever. The overhead just doesn't work (it will on new players and in terrible lag, but that's not important.). On a side note, Nanase can punish Merkava's long range hitgrab (214a) from about a screen length away on shield block with 236C into 3.2k dmg. Neat. 236 on block can be /okay./ if people don't have a solid reversal on hand and you have chain shift you can go to B and while they're pretty certainly going to block it, you can chain shift and either go low 2B or, before landing, float j.B v 2A for an easy high/low. And not everyone can punish the 6A followup passthrough or the 6C follow.up. Against people that can though it's really pretty bad,,, As for 236C punish, from that distance you can actually get better damage than that. Confirming into 5C B+C j.8C j,C j.2C v 3C jc j.BB j.2C v 2C 214A~X is 3400 damage, and 5C B+C j.8C j,C j.2C v 3C jc j.BB j.2C v 2B 214A (delay)~X 623C (input other way) is 4085.From absolute max distance or near it, confirming into 5C can be troublesome, but you can swap the 5C and 3C in the combo for only 13 less damage. It's only from closer distances where you link 236C to 5B into a jump forward combo that you really see 3.2ish combos. 236C is a really good distance punish against quite a few things, really. 8 frame startup, crosses the screen in only a few more frames than that, easy to combo off of? May as well call it Cyclonic Arm, haha.
NecroTheReaper Posted August 21, 2014 Posted August 21, 2014 Is there a specific trick to getting 236x>6A to cross through? Of you do accidentally use 236x on block, cross through 6A followup sounds the safest you can do, but I dunno if its just naturally unreliable or if I missed something.
Abyssal Darkshadow Posted August 22, 2014 Posted August 22, 2014 Is there a specific trick to getting 236x>6A to cross through? Of you do accidentally use 236x on block, cross through 6A followup sounds the safest you can do, but I dunno if its just naturally unreliable or if I missed something. You have to be pressed up against them when you hit 6A, which means delaying the input slightly rather than pressing it the moment you see hitstop. It's hardly a perfect strategy, though, even Gordeau's slide can hit you out of recovery, it's only good against a very few people.
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