Quomple Posted June 16, 2009 Posted June 16, 2009 this is not gameplay discussion. take it to the guilty room if it piques your interest so much. Some of the other forums turned these threads into general question and discussion. I just thought this was where I was supposed to ask. look at his whole body see the red things yeah those are eyes geez its like you don't have any or something ...
rtl42 Posted June 16, 2009 Posted June 16, 2009 yes that's my mistake, i assumed this was still strictly gameplay discussion. if JackG says okay, then i'm okay with it.
ShibuyaX Posted June 19, 2009 Posted June 19, 2009 this guy is mad slow but he is powerful....im digging this guy....havent played BB but this is the guy im leaning toward off the start....does anyone know if he is playable from start or do u gotta unlock him first?
qwerty Posted June 19, 2009 Posted June 19, 2009 i'm 99% sure that he's playable from the start in the console version.
SmiL Posted June 19, 2009 Posted June 19, 2009 I was kinda curious of that myself. I suppose we can only wait and see right?
qwerty Posted June 19, 2009 Posted June 19, 2009 well, when we played at fanime haku and nu were available from the start. granted, that's not the final version of the game, but aksys is particularly good about listening to the community when it comes to these kinds of things.
JackG Posted June 24, 2009 Posted June 24, 2009 Hey gang. Have some updates. -Finally updated the v-13 matchup thread to follow the Tager matchup guidelines. There's a decent bit more information there, as I had a chance to play a whole lot against Nu over the weekend, and more importantly, hate that bitch. -Started up a Rachel matchup thread with some startup information. It's certainly lacking compared to Nu's thread at the moment, so let's get some discussion going and fill it up! I'm leaving for Austin tomorrow for SBO qualifiers (wish me luck guys) so I probably won't be back until next Monday or Tuesday. As such I'll hopefully start working on more matchup threads, as well as maybe a movelist thread and combo thread. I definitely want this place filled with info soon after the console release. In other news, Hakumen thread has the least number of posts in it out of all the characters. Is he really that unloved? ;_;
4r5 Posted June 24, 2009 Posted June 24, 2009 Is he really that unloved? ;_; Everything that there is ever to know about Hakumen has already been found out. The only thing left to do is to counter everything, all the time. (maybe, shrug)
Spark Posted June 24, 2009 Posted June 24, 2009 I don't know if this has already been posted or not, but Hakumen's 5B and 2B late chain into 2A.
JackG Posted June 24, 2009 Posted June 24, 2009 It does, but I don't really see any practical use off of that. If you want to do a combo involving stars, you're just unnecessarily prorating your damage. If you don't plan on using stars, then you're pushing your opponent farther back and getting less frame advantage than simply ending with 5b/2b for a measly amount of extra damage. The frame advantage of 5b and 2b is +0/+2 respectively on block. On hit, you're going to get a walk-in throw/6b or 3c/jump in j.C mixup pretty much guaranteed. By the same token, 236a combos into 2a on a crouching opponent. Again though, not entirely practical. In other news, we're still better than Tager! Whoo EDIT: I know that off of 236a on an aerial opponent, most people just do the 6c link. However, you can usually do 236a > 66 > 5b > j.b > j.c. The timing is pretty strict (I'm not sure if the 5 frame buffer window works for 66, but at least it does for the 5b) but I have found it to work on just about everyone. Carl is probably the only exception. However, I haven't been able to test which one does more damage in different scenarios. Has anyone tried this one before? here's the following damages: 5b: 620 j.b: 590 j.c: 1070 6c: 1640
Spark Posted June 24, 2009 Posted June 24, 2009 I think they are more useful when used as block strings, so you don't always have to jump cancel the 5B or spend meter to keep pressure.
reaVer Posted June 25, 2009 Posted June 25, 2009 Everything that there is ever to know about Hakumen has already been found out. The only thing left to do is to counter everything, all the time. (maybe, shrug)lol, wait till next year then XD
Angrynord Posted June 25, 2009 Posted June 25, 2009 ^ heh, agreed. Yes, Hakumen's game plan is pretty straightforward, but I'm sure there is more to figure out, namely figuring out which of his BnBs is the most efficient (i.e which one does the most damage per orb spent). Hell, it took years to figure out that Dee Jay was actually worth a damn in Super Turbo. There are probably numerous baiting strategies as well, just waiting to be found, so that one can exploit his counters. Frankly I don't think I'm seeing counters used enough, but then again the game is only in arcades right now, and risk-taking behavior usually doesn't see too much light in a pay per play environment. Personally I think Hakumen is going to be another ST Honda situation: Having it tough against characters with projectiles, but raping the rest of the cast.
Zenes Posted June 25, 2009 Posted June 25, 2009 Hiya, I'm pretty new to the dustloop forums, i plan to play haku-men alot, i like counter characters and mind games and katana's ;p. I can't wait till this comes out. keep the awesome info coming
qwerty Posted June 25, 2009 Posted June 25, 2009 Personally I think Hakumen is going to be another ST Honda situation: Having it tough against characters with projectiles, but raping the rest of the cast. i wouldn't say raping, but having an easier time for sure. though tao is especially painful as far as non projectile characters go (i was using counters in this match too!...). as i'm sure everyone at svgl will attest, i've gotten much better since this match (but tao is still hard ). when can i have my on-guard 6D for two stars arcsys?
SmiL Posted June 25, 2009 Posted June 25, 2009 Personally I think Hakumen is going to be another ST Honda situation: Having it tough against characters with projectiles, but raping the rest of the cast. More then likely, thats how I've seen it play out alot to...but I hate fighting Honda. lol
Angrynord Posted June 26, 2009 Posted June 26, 2009 i wouldn't say raping, but having an easier time for sure. though tao is especially painful as far as non projectile characters go (i was using counters in this match too!...). as i'm sure everyone at svgl will attest, i've gotten much better since this match (but tao is still hard ). when can i have my on-guard 6D for two stars arcsys? I'll preface my comments by saying that I have not had the pleasure of playing Blazblue yet, as I live in central Florida, which is devoid of any establishment even remotely close to a proper arcade. However, my observational faculties are well intact, so I am attempting to do some informed speculation. My background in fighters comes mainly Street Fighter, though I have been a long time fan of Guilty Gear, but have lacked the time to really devote to the series. My tastes are somewhat shifting though, and I have been playing GG fairly often, and plan to play BB extensively. I generally prefer to use characters that can be played patiently, waiting for an opportune moment to strike my opponent for high damage. Hence, I play Bison (Dictator) in ST, and Slayer in GG. Generally I always take a grappler as a secondary character, such as Zangief in ST and Potemkin in GG. This pattern will continue in GG with Hakumen and Tager. High risk, high reward (though I think Slayer lays far more with the "high reward" aspect), and absolute patience being required are traits I admire in a character. Sorry for the paragraph, but I think it will help shed some light on why I perceive things the way I do. Now, I'd say Tao is a special situation. Technically, she IS a projectile character, but I don't think I have ever seen anyone use the actual attack. This leads me to believe that the attack probably isn't so useful. So, because of this, I don't classify her as such. However, she has the same traits that made Chun-Li somewhat of a pain in the ass for Honda: She's mobile. Very mobile. Mobility and zoning wreck Hakumen's game plan. However, just like Chun vs Honda, it seems that if you can catch her, she'll be in a lot of trouble. If one could stop her rush down, or make her afraid to be reckless with it, then really it just becomes a matter of patience. You'll catch the kitty eventually. It is in this way that Hakumen reminds me of my main in ST, Bison. Bison had to be played with patience as well, and could be rushed down HARD by a lot of characters. He was straight fucked in the corners if he didn't have meter. However, that didn't matter to Bison. All a Bison player needs is one solid opening, and he wins. I've won matches before when the opponent was on their way to a perfect, and I managed to land one deep jumping HK, stealing the match from out of their mouth. Hakumen is very much like this. He spends a lot of the match getting walked on until he gets his opening, and then it's game over. However... Unlike Bison, who must generally wait for an opening, Hakumen can create openings from the lovely gift of counters. I think those counters are really going to be the key to Hakumen, and I bet he'll climb in the rankings because of them. Good counter use would really neuter his vulnerability to rush down tactics. Even a merely lucky, unintentional counter can put the fear back in an opponent, letting them know that you can, and will, fuck them up if they dare to grow careless and go on autopilot. So, just to clarify my position a bit: I don't think Hakumen is much like Honda at all. What I meant by my comment was that as a general rule of thumb he can execute his game plan much more easily on characters who can't zone him full screen. The "rape" reference wasn't so much comparing him to Honda's absurd rapings of non-fireballers, but moreso just what Hakumen does to life bars when he gets the chance to start doing damage.
frcflyingjohnny Posted June 26, 2009 Posted June 26, 2009 Hakumen is a pretty cool character, and like you said Angrynord, once he has the chance to combo or gain reset power, it will be tough for any enemy you're fighting. After playing with Hakumen for awhile I will share what I have learned. Most people will burst if they get hit by Hakumen's HCF+C move. This is why I have kind of been scarcely using it. It sucks when you throw out this move and you get bursted on, having wasted all your orbs trying to land that shit. I was fighting this one guy and he was TOTALLY looking for it, I never did it and killed him with a less damaging combo and he didn't even burst before I killed him. Hakumen can dash under (623P) Jin's ground fireballs. When playing as Hakumen, you are rewarded for being patient. When I start a round, I usually wait for awhile before trying to rush at all, because Hakumen has lame combos right at the start of a round. If you don't have any orbs after 214K, airdash then meaty air C to continue gnarly pressure. Everyone will be afraid of this. If the opponent does not get up off the ground right away for you to continue pressure, then you will OTG them and you can then add a 1C -> aircombo. Also guys, grabs are a BIG part of Hakumen's game. I'm pretty sure his grab is the most damaging in the game. You can also combo off of grabs on all of the characters except for Carl (He flies too far away after the punch). OH yeah, and C is a very scary move. Was fighting some noobs and when they push C as much as they do,... shit it's scary.
SIne Posted June 27, 2009 Posted June 27, 2009 fighting Tao is a pain in the ass so is fighting arakune...and Nuu those I would classify as his worst matchup other than bang with bang install and life lead...with tao you gotta block and IB as much as possible, do not spam counters unless you see and know you can counter the move ...you will get CH into like a 3k+ combo and end up in the corner where she starts pressure again...try to tech away from the corner if you get KD and if you have meter you can usually surprise them with a quick 214b into corner 2c loop....make sure you dont drop combos vs tao (that goes for against any character but especially against her) make sure you seize every opportunity to hit her and make it hurt because you get very little chances... I would consider my hakumen to still be okay but not great... yet...I have to play against too really good Taos here in NYC in KKl and Drunken chicken...even though they have totally different playing styles, you have to fight them the same way..wait for the mistake(hit, counter ) and punish hard and dont be afraid to block alot; it takes alot of hits for tao to guard crush Hakumen and you only need like 6 or so stars to guard crush her....I end up on the losing end anyway against those too so take my advice for what you will...
reaVer Posted June 27, 2009 Posted June 27, 2009 Mobility and zoning wreck Hakumen's game plan. I disagree with that. Unlike with OS where OS wouldn't get meter(especially in /) Hakumen can just wait for the zoning to end(either by mistake or by selfmade opening) while he keeps getting stars doing nothing basically. And when opponents are using projectiles their tension gain is less than Hakumen's. So trying to zone Hakumen only makes him more dangerous in the long run. As for mobility, that's what corners are for:p
qwerty Posted June 27, 2009 Posted June 27, 2009 I disagree with that. Unlike with OS where OS wouldn't get meter(especially in /) Hakumen can just wait for the zoning to end(either by mistake or by selfmade opening) while he keeps getting stars doing nothing basically. And when opponents are using projectiles their tension gain is less than Hakumen's. So trying to zone Hakumen only makes him more dangerous in the long run. easier said than done. that "doing nothing" part happens to be the hardest thing about playing hakumen; not getting hit. especially against the top three, you want to spend as little time on the defensive as possible (protip: hakumen spends a lot of time defending ). counters help with this, but you still have to know what counters to use and when (ie: if tao is right in your face, 6D isn't a good idea since it has a minimum range, but you also need to be sure that you won't get ch'd out of a 5D). and sure, theoretically hakumen can make a comeback once he's gained all dat meter, but look at how often hakumen loses with all eight stars. point being: play the game against live comp for eight months and then comment on how it should be played. nothing personal against you reaver, but the theory fighting should at least be left to those who have played the game. you might mean well, but that doesn't mean you aren't wrong. sorry dude.
zer0kage Posted June 27, 2009 Posted June 27, 2009 People have interesting comparisons of Hakumen to ST characters. Bison is definitely a good choice, good normals though he has great options in closing into his opponents. To be honest I always think of him as a better Alex from 3S just without the command grab. Tao is quite tough. I tend to only best the Tao players more when I found their attack pattern and use counters on it. 6D is used more if you can IB her blockstrings esp hand clap. Block 1 of the handclaps the next one is free to 6D 2D is... well since Tao's 2A hits low you can use that against the 2A spammy Tao's. So far the one I've gone against loves his 2A after a gatling ->clap->Drive crossup combo. 5D I tend to use it for stuff I can see like Tao's 6B. However, I also can 5A out of that into jA jB jc jC Tsubaki (possibly follow up more) combo. Just me though. It's also a quite handy aa against her god annoying jC (her claw swipe normal really good as a poke). Problem with Tao is she's capable of faking out her mixups causing the player to flinch and punish them hard. Example is her straight dash. That's a free 6A for Hakumen. Thing is that she can cancel it to a fast fall as soon and use her twin palm strike as soon as she sees the whiffed 6A. There's more to the matchup but I need to learn to strike her extended limbs with jC.
reaVer Posted June 27, 2009 Posted June 27, 2009 easier said than done. that "doing nothing" part happens to be the hardest thing about playing hakumen; not getting hit. especially against the top three, you want to spend as little time on the defensive as possible (protip: hakumen spends a lot of time defending ). counters help with this, but you still have to know what counters to use and when (ie: if tao is right in your face, 6D isn't a good idea since it has a minimum range, but you also need to be sure that you won't get ch'd out of a 5D). and sure, theoretically hakumen can make a comeback once he's gained all dat meter, but look at how often hakumen loses with all eight stars. point being: play the game against live comp for eight months and then comment on how it should be played. nothing personal against you reaver, but the theory fighting should at least be left to those who have played the game. you might mean well, but that doesn't mean you aren't wrong. sorry dude. Good, now you totally missed the point and accused me of theory fighting.
Silmerion Posted June 27, 2009 Posted June 27, 2009 Good, now you totally missed the point and accused me of theory fighting.Theory fighting is the act of taking facts about a game, character, and/or match-up and extrapolating them out to make a statement that may or may not check with the actual facts of how said game/character/match-up works in reality. Your assertion was that Haku-Men is automatically dangerous to zoners because of his meter gain. Check your post again versus the definition, which, honestly, you should know, since you claim to play fighters. Does it fit? Absolutely. Anyway, theory fighting's generally okay; even the best will lapse into it sometimes. qwerty makes the point, though, that you are theory fighting without any base at all, as you have not played BlazBlue for any extended period of time. The point I'll now make is that you seem to think that you are more correct about a character than someone who has played that character since his release. That's not theory fighting, that's plain old hubris. Also, qwerty absolutely did not miss your point. He addressed it very clearly. Read his post again. It addresses your assertion that Haku-Men's meter gain makes him dangerous to zoners. I promise you, it's there.
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