XRD Slayer critique thread.

[fogelstrom]

-

c.S, f.S, c.S, 2D - For every character standing.

c.s, f.S, c.S, f.S, 2K/5K, 2D - Most of the cast crouching.

c.S, f.S, 2K, 2D - For when the next c.S would be a f.S. Character specific. You'll learn in time.

These are the essentials. You need to learn your c.S, f.S confirms because they are HUGE part of your gameplan. They lead to Mappa RC combos or j.D, DHD combos and also simple knockdown to setup your oki. So it's very vital you learn this, It will greatly improve your game. Personally I like going into knockdown for oki rather than spend 50% meter for Mappa RC combos. Unless you have racked up alot of RISC.

vs Bandit Bringer use 6P. It's rather easy to do. If you are more comfortable use Blitz.

When using 6HS try do delay after 214P to confirm CH to CWH instead. Also for air hits outside corner go to CWH as well and for me easiest go straight into air juggle. E.g. 6HS, 214P-K, j.SHD or whatnot. If air hit in corner going into UP is meterless. You can also do c.S, EW right after if you wanna spend the meter. Or PB RC, 6HS, UP.

If you get the habit to ALWAYS just do PB it's going to be a bad habit that will gimp you further down having to unlearn muscle memory. (like me).

You are a bit too mash happy on the defensive. Especially considering your now heavy use of FD: Since it adds to blockstun you have even less of an advantage. Sol isn't really punishable anywhere either already. FD to make him wiff and use 5K/mappa to punish wiffed normals. But same applies for alot of characters. If they adjust and cut their strings shorter instead to run in again you can start pressing buttons. After you have forced them to later their pressure.

Maybe a bit to heavy on trying to hit c.S, f.S. Remember if you are too far away for a c.S and get just a f.S it has 13F startup. It's one of his worst moves as a poke imo though on block/hit it's awesome. But 5K has 7F startup and probably hits further as well. With better spacing/footsies this issue is reduced.

Still struggle with getting your knockdown and settuping up proper oki. But if you properly learn to use c.S, f.S confirms you'll get more knockdown and better practice.

[fogelstrom]

Got the honor of playing Alioune today. Probably a name somewhat recognized. Obviously I took a beating but it was a good chance to play against probably the best Elph in EU.

She's ridiculously good and I have few answers to a lot of things. I just hate it that 6P doesn't beat Bridal Express and that timing 6P vs air Bridal Express is difficult because of the angle you can get beaten out. Anyway I missed a lot of stuff etc but I had fun playing the matches.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6lry7T3Z0M&list=UUJ0SYiao9fIxy12Xi6zagtQ

[koufdell]

Got the honor of playing Alioune today. Probably a name somewhat recognized. Obviously I took a beating but it was a good chance to play against probably the best Elph in EU.

She's ridiculously good and I have few answers to a lot of things. I just hate it that 6P doesn't beat Bridal Express and that timing 6P vs air Bridal Express is difficult because of the angle you can get beaten out. Anyway I missed a lot of stuff etc but I had fun playing the matches.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6lry7T3Z0M&list=UUJ0SYiao9fIxy12Xi6zagtQ

 

you had the honor to play mr unblockable ?? hhh i hope it was fun   ... i need to watch this

edit:some stuff i know you can do cS fS EW k mappa cS air combo from p2 start position (if she's crouching,works on ram and milia too)  

also you can go for double hit dandy after k CWH jS(1) H DHD for quick damage works mid and corner

[fogelstrom]

Online session from yesterday.

Was playing some various people so I cba to edit around highilghting etc so there's some need for scrolling around the clip.
Also the Ky matches can be skipped, I think there is only 3 of them.

vs I-No, Sin, Potemkin, Axl
 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05Xc1AIglOo

[xbocax]

So, insane matches so far by fogelstrom, and nice tips as well.

Well, I'm really a less "advanced" player than you guys, and I'd like some more advice on neutral and air openers and close ups, I'm feeling that I'm being far too easy to read, and have no idea how to do things differently.
I've been playing for 5 days now, and I can say I've grown much better since my first day online, which was kind of a failiure.

The footage I have is far from professional, like you guys, just recording through ps4, and editing it on ps4 as well.

Like I said, I know that I stilll have a lot to learn, and would really like some tips on close ups and neutral, but of course, that's just what I think its missing, feel free to give me any other recommendations in order to improve my game.

I'd like to say I've already taken some Fogelstrom notes to daymendou, but couldn't apply them very well for now, I guess I just have to play more.
 

I haven't played against really pro people, I've met people who are also getting the hang of things, like me, but I've been beaten horribly by some Ky's, Ramlethal's and Millia's, I'd love some real insight on Ky's fight on the second video, I know I did many wrong things, but I'd like some specifics.

Thx in advance, mates!

 

 

So here follows the vids:

Awful 1st day online - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ta8yXHCGVPw

A week later - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-uMSd4tjAg

Ranked on this week against low lvls like me - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBRgM-yqnqk


I'll be waiting ppl.
Thx again!

[daymendou]

Welcome to the forums and to Slayer. I think it's my turn to do a critique.

 

Take a look at the Combo Compendium and practice some Basic combos. The ones starting with c.S f.S will be your best way to get consistent damage and knockdowns. Also check the wiki and learn Slayer's gatlings so you know all the possible followups to your attacks. This will help you be less predictable, get more knockdowns from air hits, and overall increase your damage. The biggest combo you consistently do is c.S f.S Mappa RRC Crosswise or j.SHD and you could increase their damage by 50% if you made a full combo.

 

You aren't reacting to things very well, but that will come with time as you learn all the characters' moves. The main reason you are predictable is because you tend to use the move that has enough range to hit your opponent, even if you're far away. This means the opponent can just block normally and never get hit because you have no mixup. Try experimenting with every move in your matches.

 

In the Ky match, you needed to react faster to Stun Edges. Once he started using 2H and Vapor Thrust to keep you out, you couldn't figure out how to get in. Dead on Time doesn't reach that far and your airdashes kept losing.

 

Getting into range as Slayer can be difficult. Usually you wait for the opponent to do something slow then dash in. Sometimes it's best to patiently walk forward so you can block everything. 6P can avoid projectiles above the knees if timed correctly. Against opponents like Ky or Ramlethal, you will have to take risks and dash in, but be aware if they have Tension to YRC. P Mappa, K Mappa, and K Dandy Step (no followup) are situationally useful but I would avoid using them for now.

 

I would say 5K range counts as neutral. Slayer neutral is about keeping the opponent pressured and making them try to stop your pressure with predictable attacks. 5K, 2P/K, c.S f.S, Under Pressure are your basic options. It helps to keep moving between attacks, so try to walk more. 6H and Mappa will keep you in but they are slow. However, that also makes them great at baiting attacks, which you can dodge with backdash or Dandy Step. If the enemy just blocks low at neutral, you lose some easy options. For now, you probably want to use 5K and cancel into airdashes, but there's also Under Pressure to 2K, Bite, and normal throw. Learn the difference between short dash and long dash so you can crossup the opponent midscreen. Avoid using forward jump unless you predict they will try to jump, use airdash if you want to hit High.

 

For air attacks, you don't want to use S unless it can hit immediately to gatling into K. The range is bad and leaves you open to Counter Hit for a long time. K is overall good for air-to-air and you can do a basic combo of KPK > dj. KD on hit or KPKPKP... on block. P is safer if you think K will whiff. You are using j.H with airdashes but you have to learn what anti-air options your opponent has so you don't get hit out all the time. j.H has 13 frames startup so you have to consider using j.K, only 6 frames, which can combo into something like KSK. You can gatling j.H to j.D for some more damage and hit/blockstun.

 

Ground-to-air openers are 5P, c.S, c.S f.S, or 5H. 5K will be the only option in a few cases but it's best to use other moves since 5K has 85% proration, which will weaken your air combo. 5P has to combo into j.P/S, Slayer's jump startup is 4 frames and 5P untechable time is 10 frames at most so j.K is too slow. c.S f.S is easier to confirm than c.S but the height increase will change your possible combos. 5H is the starter after Crosswise Heel (use c.S f.S for Ky, Potemkin, Bedman). Generally, the air portion of the combo is j.SHD at low heights, j.SKD at medium heights, and j.K at high heights, where medium height is about Slayer's jump height. You'll have to figure out when you can use j.2K and when to just double jump.

 

I think you should play more Lobby matches. I find it harder to find a good connection on Ranked and timing Slayer combos is difficult at 6F or higher delay. 5 days of online isn't much so I hope to see improvements next week.

[fogelstrom]

I watched a few matches and I think daymendou gives good enough advice.

Also along with the advice I've already given to daymendou and writeups from people learning Slayer the beginner info is rather plentiful.

 

However I actually had the luck of playing a really good player a few days ago and managed to cap a few matches. Online will always be online so our matches would probably be different offline (with me losing a lot more) but still I had lots of fun playing these matches.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMqzits0kVo

*EDIT*

I challenge GF a bit too much but only because you can pass it with long dash and punish them.
When I fail to block jump-in IAD it's because I either tried doing 6P or reversal blitz.
Didn't know the burst timing on GV to get free punish but checked training mode after.

[xbocax]

I don't know exactly how to thank you for this, Daymendou!

My gameplay has improved greatly since I've been using your tips, however, it's still a lot for me to chew and digest, It's been really hard to give up that j.S on crossups but I think someday I'll get it over with hahahahha
I've implemented j.K on startups and Air-to-air like tou said, I just seem to forget it sometimes, muscle memory I guess. Worked on his Gatlings as well, but there I've ran into another problem, gonna talk about it soon.

 

The biggest problem on doing a full solo, is really my internet connection, I usually play it at 8-10 F delay, and it's reeeeeeaaly hard to link j.P/J.K after j.2K, but then again on offline I have no problem with it. I guess I must really practice it online and try to buffer j.P sooner than I've been doing. Believe me, I always go for the full combo, but could only succesfully complete it about 2 or 3 times. However, I played some online matches on 4F and couldn't pull them off, I guess maybe my reaction time is being a little late... But I'll keep that in mind!

 

I also found less difficulty on getting into range against some caracters due to far dash and super jump followed by j.2K. And a gatling that made my life really easier: 5K > 6HS > P Dandy > UP/2K.   This has been amazing, sometimes 6HS hits as a counter and then I just PB instead for insane damage and combo possibilities.

Thankyou very much also for the tip on movement, I still need some improvement but I've being walking and dashing much more!

 

 

Now, I must ask you again about some specifics and see if you guys could help me on what should I do.

 

1 - Throws - I've found really hard to "know" when to dash in and throw, and what to do to escape throws.
2 - Opponent Mashes 2P or 2K when I'm "dandying" arround.
3 - Being Corner Pressured, most specific about Sol and Ky.

4 - KY.

 

So, Ky and Sols are my most difficult matchups by far. I've compiled a video this weekend of some lobby matches, I'd like you to take a look please.

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klSzRjegJM0 

 

On the Ky problem, I've met one at arround 35:30 who gave me a really hard time, we must have fought 10 times maybe, and I guess I could win only one match.. ;/

Really need some help on this. Against Sol's is kind of a gamble, really fast reactional crap that I'm not too fast to react, but I'll learn.

Ppl, thanks again for the previous comments and also in advance for the following ones!

:D
 

[daymendou]

Collapsed: @fogelstrom:

 

I just had some nice matches yesterday with a very good Sol as well

 

@4:36 - You try UP > 2K but he gets the IB on UP and punishes. Gotta confirm IB on UP/IL because they become -2/-3

@7:23 - Wakeup Eternal Wings seems awful since Sols love to safejump or dash in.

@8:15 - You tried to P Dandy Bandit Bringer. The spacing/timing to get Pilebunker punish is a bit farther than that in my experience.

@8:46 - You backdash his f.S. Both f.S and 5H only have 2 active frames so they are good candidates for BDC Mappa

@9:17 - You get CH 5K Mappa RC and go for Dust. Should have went for 66 > 5H-2H

@11:50, 12:30, 20:45 - You Blitz Bandit Revolver and drop the air combo the first 2 times. I think this is because of how j.S hit him, so perhaps switching to SKD would be more stable.

@13:49 - I don't know if you confirmed the IB Mappa or just did RC out of reflex, but then you follow it up with Crosswise Heel? Haha...

@14:36 - Nice abare

@23:19 - You miss the VV punish, should have used K Mappa

@30:20 - If you accidentally do 6H UP on air hit, you can try to salvage the combo with 5P > j.P

 

Dashing through Gunflame is really annoying online, especially from corner, so maybe just use SJ IAD Footloose. You did get one @7:49 but he probably could have punished if he didn't Gunflame again. You get a good one @12:08.

 

I stopped using Burst to punish Grand Viper because it doesn't seem to be worth it. He can put you in corner with most of his moves anyway so why give up the burst meter? @9:23 you try to swap him into corner, which would have been a good use.

 

If you see YRC into command grab, try to mash backdash. Wild Throw is 4F so jump isn't guaranteed

 

 

@boca

 

Doing things in training mode is a lot different from online, but I think it's possible to learn the timing for even 10F delay if you really want to. The double jump after j.2K-PK can be difficult, but it's possible to consistently do it on 4F. If you can't get the f.S link to c.S, you lose a lot of damage, which means you have to make more guesses to win.

 

You'll want to tech with P and K because j.S is such an unsafe move. Try not to get too comfortable approaching with double jump because good players will air Throw or anti-air you.

 

When you knock down the enemy, you need to start doing something besides walking backwards > attack. Slayer can do crossup dash, UP mixup, even just c.S.

 

1. Dash in Throw is good when the enemy is afraid to attack and just blocks. Basic ways to escape Throws are backdash, jump, or sometimes 2P.

2. 2P/K mash is something that often comes up. Read this post. I think there are some others if you look back a few pages

3. Escaping corner pressure requires blocking or backdash. If you can Instant Block, you can Throw after some attacks. Sometimes you can even forward dash, for example if they just jump in instead of air dash.

4. Ky has great Low attacks but slow High attacks. Many of his specials are very unsafe if blocked so keep learning how to block his offense.

 

Can't think of too much this time, just keep playing tougher opponents and see what you need to change.

[fogelstrom]

I also found less difficulty on getting into range against some caracters due to far dash and super jump followed by j.2K. And a gatling that made my life really easier: 5K > 6HS > P Dandy > UP/2K.   This has been amazing, sometimes 6HS hits as a counter and then I just PB instead for insane damage and combo possibilities.

 

1 - Throws - I've found really hard to "know" when to dash in and throw, and what to do to escape throws.

2 - Opponent Mashes 2P or 2K when I'm "dandying" arround.

3 - Being Corner Pressured, most specific about Sol and Ky.

 

 

Playing in 10F is insane. It's barely even a game at that point.

I only play in 4F if there is ABSOLUTELY NO ONE else to play. I'd rather sit in training mode or play vs CPU than force myself to play 10F.

For 6HS CH you should be going for CWH for meterless damage instead. If you have 50% you can even add EW after 5HS/c.S and still juggle (in corner that is).

If you hit midscreen and do P Dandy CWH be wary that the spaceing get's weird so I'd suggest PB in those cases unless you have training moded that special awkward spaceing.

You can't escape throws. Jump or backdash. Mash 2P vs tick throw but beating a tick normal throw online with 2P mash won't happen. But it's farily easy vs command grabs if you are familiar with common setups. There is no set rule for when to throw. It's just a part of your mixup. To stop people from mashing or just letting them know they can't block forever. It's good in the corners if you ever have pressure there.

Either use raw PB or CWH vs mashing for dandys. Let's say you do c.S, f.S, 2K, 214P and you get beaten when trying to slide in with UP. You need to check people with PB in these situations. To educate them why they shouldn't press buttons.

Probably more towards the matchup specific forums but you can just BDJC everything. Othat than that I'd suggest you study frame data or even gatling tables to know what they can do and when. But BDJC in the gaps will take you far.

[fogelstrom]

People still don't like posting their vids?
Second set of eyes is worth gold!

1.1 is here so.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kH5nrS-RkpE

Don't have as much time to play as I used to unfortunately.

[fogelstrom]

Had some offline casuals and brought my stream gear with me so got to record some matches finally.

Anyone feeling really confident in the Pot matchup? I'd love some pointers beside being a total scrub. Practical implementations of certain pokes or tactics... anything to make my life easier.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z9gMUjKbTg<- 1hr vs Pot.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2sYcxTuwT0<- 1hr vs Axl, Slayer and some less serious Ky matches at the end.

[Flick]

Had some offline casuals and brought my stream gear with me so got to record some matches finally.

Anyone feeling really confident in the Pot matchup? I'd love some pointers beside being a total scrub. Practical implementations of certain pokes or tactics... anything to make my life easier.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z9gMUjKbTg<- 1hr vs Pot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2sYcxTuwT0<- 1hr vs Axl, Slayer and some less serious Ky matches at the end.

Shoulda work with your anti air and fuzzy defense. That Potemkin guy plays really simple(but also really effective) but you keep falling for some really basic stuff (empty jump low okizeme, slide head and HFB YRC reset after blockstring, etc). And i think you should try focusing more on wiff punish.

And don't afraid to approach. From a Potemkin player, i have to admit that if a slayer's approaching unpredictably, it's not easy to counter with potemkin. Try doing things as fast as you can so the potemkin will have no time to think about what you're doing. If you're afraid of being IBed>Buster, just scouting him and bait for that. A wiff Buster can be all you need to end a round.

To sum up, don't play a normal slayer in this matchup, don't be scared, you scared = you die(but also don't play recklessly)

[fogelstrom]

Shoulda work with your anti air and fuzzy defense. That Potemkin guy plays really simple(but also really effective) but you keep falling for some really basic stuff (empty jump low okizeme, slide head and HFB YRC reset after blockstring, etc). And i think you should try focusing more on wiff punish.

And don't afraid to approach. From a Potemkin player, i have to admit that if a slayer's approaching unpredictably, it's not easy to counter with potemkin. Try doing things as fast as you can so the potemkin will have no time to think about what you're doing. If you're afraid of being IBed>Buster, just scouting him and bait for that. A wiff Buster can be all you need to end a round.

To sum up, don't play a normal slayer in this matchup, don't be scared, you scared = you die(but also don't play recklessly)

I really don't feel confident in playing a normal Slayer. Pot can just Buster you anytime. I mean IB c.S = Buster. c.S, f.S IB = Buster. UP IB = Buster. K Mappa IB = Buster. And Pot has good active frames and reach on 5H and 2D. If you telegraph too much on your air approach backdash Buster or 6P CH Heat.

The matchup is in Pot's favour and it feels kinda daunting. If I get something going I try to stick on him but in neutral far away I don't feel going in is a good option at most times.

But this is more kinda matchup thread material rather than critique. Just wanted to share my point of view. I noted A LOT of bad things I did and I'll easily play more calm and especially focused next time.

[RoBoBOBR]

fS on IB is +3, that's not a buster situation.

[fogelstrom]

I know it's +3 but that doesn't matter if you press any button at all.
All you can do is jump or BDC special since Slayer can't gatle f.S into anything all else is links and will be busted. Same after IL on block. Even if he doesn't IB the new IL and I'm +3 whatever move I do after will be busted.

 

*EDIT*
Might as well throw in that even if you do f.S, 214P/K you will be busted since Dandy doesn't have any throw invul and Buster reaches so far.

c.S, f.S, 21447P however.

[fogelstrom]

Set vs Ky.

I felt kinda terrible after and spotted major issues I need to adress but still some sweet bits!

Poor defense.
Overusage of j.D
Obvious/flowchart after c.S, f.S on block
Greedy, so god damn greedy all the time
Poor usage of FD 

Edited September 7, 2015 by fogelstrom

[fogelstrom]

Online hero saga continues. Trying to conquer Finland but doesn't go all too well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-M1eqjK33MY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QoG_16-wOyI

(Second video still processing)

[fogelstrom]

FT10 challenge by russian Sol player Overkill

[RoBoBOBR]

You don't like to spend tension, do you =)

[fogelstrom]

I was hunting for IK pretty hard
But ye my meter management overall is pretty bad.

[koufdell]

meter management tanabata style...it's legit .... hase style is ridiculous but hard to integrate in your game style

[Dandy Chippu]

I think koufdell means 75% tension=forward dash (YRC) forward dash (YRC) jump (YRC) double jump...air throw.

[koufdell]

I think koufdell means 75% tension=forward dash (YRC) forward dash (YRC) jump (YRC) double jump...air throw.

yeah ... that's legit too hhh

[fogelstrom]

Friend came back from japan mountain training. Needless to say it was quite effective. But I was more happy with my defense than my offense and execution.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxspXv7fr7E