[Xrd] Venom Q&A Thread

[ban1son]

There's A LOT to practice in training mode. I was overwhelmed myself at first when I picked up this character a few years ago.

 

You can start with BNBs that you're comfortable with that earn you a knockdown. Also learn to memorize his formations, and have some basics in mind for zoning, approach, and oki (even something simple like 214P, 5P to start with still works well for all 3, but yes you want SOMETHING so you'll have a basic gameplan intact).

From there, you can start training in matches to feel comfortable and get a feel for things. Or you could be full training mode monster and try to learn everything as fast you can there.

 

But I don't recommend jumping into games vs people day 1 if you're completely new to the character.

Thanks for the advice DaiAndOh, I was thinking along the same lines but wasnt sure, I guess ill hit training mode hard first..

[SnowMonkeyFunky]

Does the normal used to hit a set ball change the attack level? IE will a P ball hit by 5H have more blockstun than if it were hit by 5P?

[DaiAndOh]

No it does not. Just the speed/damage/angle of the ball.

[Lynxfort]

The  most useful things that need execution " combos and setups..etc"  can all  be done be pad ?? or i need stick ??

[TittyFOFO]

I play on pad just fine.

[DaiAndOh]

The  most useful things that need execution " combos and setups..etc"  can all  be done be pad ?? or i need stick ??

Pad is perfectly fine. Just practice!

Also funny that both the Venom's of VA play on pad lol.

[Lynxfort]

thnx..i have another question .. start from 3:08

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yw1jC6q34ys&feature=player_detailpage#t=188

It's look like he did the charged Stinger without but charging animation how can i do it.??.of course if it possible in the ver which we play now

[Epic]

It's not currently possible. It's a change in 1.1 where if you stinger/carcass a ball that is already on the screen the ball from the stinger/carcass gets charged up. 

[Hollysmoke]

On some of the combo parts (I'm going to use the following chain as an example): SQV > 5P > BH > IAD j.SHSD |> 6HS

 

Is the SD part just a really tight link? I checked the air gatling table and some videos and haven't seen the HSD part. Usually just SHD.

 

EDIT: NEVER MIND I JUST DON'T KNOW HOW TO READ. NEED MORE INT.

[Pomparomp]

It's HS D not H S D

[Diveman]

How do you keep on pressure in the corner after you used, let's say the balls you set and carcass/stinger? I've been doing 2S S cr but that's kinda easy to get out. What would be some good used of yrc/rc coupled with summons to keep them there?

[Hollysmoke]

It's HS D not H S D

 

*Facepalm*

 

I'm retarded. Disregard my inability to read.

[Epic]

Actually I made the same mistake when I started. It is pretty confusing for new players especially if you're used to different annotations from other character topics.

[Justice7541]

I never understood why people insist on writing it as HS instead of just H.

[DaiAndOh]

This is something that's I've seen notation wise since I've started so I started writing it. It's been High Slash/Heavy Slash since forever. It doesn't hurt to do it only as H since there's no other H button, but just formed out of my old habits.

How do you keep on pressure in the corner after you used, let's say the balls you set and carcass/stinger? I've been doing 2S S cr but that's kinda easy to get out. What would be some good used of yrc/rc coupled with summons to keep them there?

This can get very situation and character dependent, but as a base, a YRC Stinger or Carcass will usually reset your pressure. You can go back in or set a ball during a YRC slowdown.

Since most people escape 2S>S Carcass by jumping, try throwing out a HS Carcass. If they block it in the air, great! Depending on the height, you have a few options to follow it up. If they're too high up your best bet might be another HS carcass. Closer to the ground, 6P, 6HS, or c.S can lead into options to force out air FD (fastest way to drain opponent's tension) or even better, catch people out of the sky.

QV at certain, spaced distances can help it is -4 of course so keep that in mind.

[Hollysmoke]

This is something that's I've seen notation wise since I've started so I started writing it. It's been High Slash/Heavy Slash since forever. It doesn't hurt to do it only as H since there's no other H button, but just formed out of my old habits.

 

 

It's not wrong, I just derped and forgot you can write it like that. Best I can suggest is to add a space after HS to avoid confusion in the future.

[Lynxfort]

 After 2:37
https://youtu.be/xTVyBHv0Pu8?t=157

Why  did he did go for P set oki instead of K set which have better mix-up options  ??

[LuimanXrd]

I believe he took several factors into account to go for the P Ball instead of the K Ball. First, May has bar to blitz. Second, she was knocked down to close to Venom. With a K ball, if you hit it with forward jumping K, you can be blitz-shielded, and since she's that close, its hard to get the meaty setup properly; if you hit it with an S Ball, you'll have a hole in your pressure between the j. S that hits the ball and whatever you do afterwards if they instant block the ball, AND it can also be blitz-shielded. So, although with P Ball he cannot go for an ambiguous setup, it does allow him to do some safe pressure, crank the guard bar a little, and end with a safe distance to set some balls. There are many different options there, and considering his low health and almost full tension bar, I would have gone for something more aggressive myself, but there you have a conservative way of playing Venom.

[Pomparomp]

Does f.s have a really bad hurtbox? It feels like it possible to smack the pool cue from midscreen before it even hits active frames

[DaiAndOh]

I will say from experience, that many Japanese players will blitz your setup every time if you're doing obvious K ball oki.

[AznSpyderman]

I have a Q about multiple charges.

Blacksnake often does cS, S-CR, S-CR - and I have a lot of trouble with this, because the way I can get two back-to-back S-CR is with a non-jump cancelable move - e.g. 2H or 2D, and that's because of the way I do it.

I would go - 2(charge), 2H/D, 8, 2S (charge again), 8S

If I do that with cS, I get a jump cancel.

He told me I have to hit 8S, and then immediately, like on the next frame hit 2.

How the hell do you do this? I thought I was getting it right until I spent about 30 minutes and couldn't get it once.

I'm having the exact same problem with the one Venom challenge (34?) that requires almost the same thing.

Any tips on double charging, even frame-by-frame, so I can understand the whole breakdown would be great.

Thanks!

[DaiAndOh]

Yes, you need to start your second charge immediately after pressing 8S. However, you might need to wait a few more frames (keep charging) before doing the second 8S

[HunterSFL]

I have a Q about multiple charges.

Blacksnake often does cS, S-CR, S-CR - and I have a lot of trouble with this, because the way I can get two back-to-back S-CR is with a non-jump cancelable move - e.g. 2H or 2D, and that's because of the way I do it.

I would go - 2(charge), 2H/D, 8, 2S (charge again), 8S

If I do that with cS, I get a jump cancel.

He told me I have to hit 8S, and then immediately, like on the next frame hit 2.

How the hell do you do this? I thought I was getting it right until I spent about 30 minutes and couldn't get it once.

I'm having the exact same problem with the one Venom challenge (34?) that requires almost the same thing.

Any tips on double charging, even frame-by-frame, so I can understand the whole breakdown would be great.

Thanks!

Yes, you need to start your second charge immediately after pressing 8S. However, you might need to wait a few more frames (keep charging) before doing the second 8S

 

There's actually much more to it, than that.  I've thought about making a video for Venom to show all of the various techniques/tricks you can use to do to get charges in really weird places.  It actually requires a deep understanding of FG engine mechanics to understand how to leverage everything to your advantage for charging purposes.

To answer your question, specifically, let's be clear on a few things.

1. When we talk about S CR, S CR, I'm assuming we're talking about the ability to do the second CR immediately after the first, with no delay.  Obviously, you could create a little more charge time by delaying the second CR after the first recovers (what Dai is talking about), but I'm going to assume this is not the goal you're looking for.  I assume you want to be able to do the second one immediately when the first one recovers.
2. Given #1, if you go back and look at examples, I think you will find that whenever you're seeing c.S xx S CR, (immediate) S CR, you are always seeing specifically [c.S(1) xx S CR, S CR], and not [c.S(2) xx S CR, S CR].  The most common example of this is late airdash j.SH, land, c.S(1) xx S CR.  Once you understand the technique used here, you will understand why this is a huge, huge difference.

Now, for the actual technique: Yes, it's important to go back to 2 (or as a better habit, 1) after hitting 8S (or as a better habit, 7S), but what's actually making this trick possible is when that's being done.  You always want to take advantage of buffering when it comes to charging.  Think about this or try it in training mode: If you're chaining two normals together, the typical rhythm used is that you press the button for the second move right as the first normal hits the opponent.  You can't cancel something (for the most part) until you reach its active frames, so people get used to timing their cancels to match the timing of the active frames, or in other words, when the move makes contact.  However, you can actually input the second attack much sooner than that.  With a fast move like a 2P or 2S, you can input your cancel almost as fast as you want, and the game buffers the input and cancels as soon as you're able.

This is the principle you want to abuse for the c.S xx S CR (and why it's possible with c.S(1) and not c.S(2)).  You want to input the cancel into the S CR as early as the game will allow so that it is buffered, letting you go back to charging for the second CR.  Note that this means that you must have your charge for the CR by the time you do the move you want to cancel from.

You can practice the concept of the technique very simply using a move that's easier to cancel from.  Try getting a charge, and then doing 2D(1) xx S CR, immediate S CR.  When you do it, input 2D, and then almost as fast as you can, input 7S, and then go back to 1.  You'll see how the S CR buffers in, and you're back charging way before the S CR even comes out, making the second one easy.

This can be applied to c.S(1) in exactly the same way.  Stand point blank, and get a down charge.  Then input 5S, and immediately 7S, then go back to 1.  You should have no problem doing a second CR after that, due to the extra charge time you're getting by buffering in the first s CR.

[DaiAndOh]

Well yes, this is explained with slightly different language in the execution thread.

A video would be much appreciated though, and I'd love to help you if you wish. I can't record these days unfortunately with my broken capture card.

[AznSpyderman]

 

There's actually much more to it, than that.  I've thought about making a video for Venom to show all of the various techniques/tricks you can use to do to get charges in really weird places.  It actually requires a deep understanding of FG engine mechanics to understand how to leverage everything to your advantage for charging purposes.

To answer your question, specifically, let's be clear on a few things.

1. When we talk about S CR, S CR, I'm assuming we're talking about the ability to do the second CR immediately after the first, with no delay.  Obviously, you could create a little more charge time by delaying the second CR after the first recovers (what Dai is talking about), but I'm going to assume this is not the goal you're looking for.  I assume you want to be able to do the second one immediately when the first one recovers.
2. Given #1, if you go back and look at examples, I think you will find that whenever you're seeing c.S xx S CR, (immediate) S CR, you are always seeing specifically [c.S(1) xx S CR, S CR], and not [c.S(2) xx S CR, S CR].  The most common example of this is late airdash j.SH, land, c.S(1) xx S CR.  Once you understand the technique used here, you will understand why this is a huge, huge difference.

Now, for the actual technique: Yes, it's important to go back to 2 (or as a better habit, 1) after hitting 8S (or as a better habit, 7S), but what's actually making this trick possible is when that's being done.  You always want to take advantage of buffering when it comes to charging.  Think about this or try it in training mode: If you're chaining two normals together, the typical rhythm used is that you press the button for the second move right as the first normal hits the opponent.  You can't cancel something (for the most part) until you reach its active frames, so people get used to timing their cancels to match the timing of the active frames, or in other words, when the move makes contact.  However, you can actually input the second attack much sooner than that.  With a fast move like a 2P or 2S, you can input your cancel almost as fast as you want, and the game buffers the input and cancels as soon as you're able.

This is the principle you want to abuse for the c.S xx S CR (and why it's possible with c.S(1) and not c.S(2)).  You want to input the cancel into the S CR as early as the game will allow so that it is buffered, letting you go back to charging for the second CR.  Note that this means that you must have your charge for the CR by the time you do the move you want to cancel from.

You can practice the concept of the technique very simply using a move that's easier to cancel from.  Try getting a charge, and then doing 2D(1) xx S CR, immediate S CR.  When you do it, input 2D, and then almost as fast as you can, input 7S, and then go back to 1.  You'll see how the S CR buffers in, and you're back charging way before the S CR even comes out, making the second one easy.

This can be applied to c.S(1) in exactly the same way.  Stand point blank, and get a down charge.  Then input 5S, and immediately 7S, then go back to 1.  You should have no problem doing a second CR after that, due to the extra charge time you're getting by buffering in the first s CR.

Fantastic. Specifically pointing out those two normals helps

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