[CT] Hakumen vs Tager

[Leonil_Requiem]

i dont see to much you can do off of 2C if the jump 2C 236A 66 5B hjc J2C airdash JC >,> but yea it doesn't reach the on start up of the match, so these not really a chance of it hitting outside of them jump at you. and now that tagers know they can 360 us on startup. it's bad to stay on the ground unless you do 3C. (3C has frames where your under the hand o death)

[qwerty]

i think 5C is the better round starter. 2C is pretty godlike against tager though. it's easily your best aa against him if nothing else (free midscreen dustloop!).

[MisoSowee]

2c hits if tager if he does nothing. 2c combos into j.2c - j.2c if they jump 5c doesn't do anything unless you 623a in for the heck of it 2c will not get hit by 360a on round start :|

[Savageshell]

Well after getting completely destroyed by Heroic Legacy I dont feel Ive learned anything about the match-up except that I want to use my alt Ragna...IAD j.C IBed and 360ed...couldnt tech before getting hitting with two sledges and on wakeup was treated to a nice 720...and block the spark bolt just to get mag anyway and end up flying across the screen...oh and Magna tech rapid cancelled into throw...need to work on throw breaks...school and work are owning my playtime for free

[MisoSowee]

If you see the Tager with 100% meter and they make you block magna tech wheel, just block the first hit and then mash. You'll IB and get a ton of meter, and you'll backdash if tager is to RC into a throw, and if he tries to sledge or anything you'll recover before he hits (I'm pretty sure)

[Savageshell]

Ok that covers one part...how am I supposed to start an offense against someone I cant IAD towards...I admit I am rusty because I havent being playing all that much but I couldnt really get anything started to use the stars I gained trying to zone him...

[MisoSowee]

Don't need to. over 1/2 of his moves are good enough to parry on reaction, so I've adopted a defensive stance against this, and just jumping in - making it safe- and then pulling out so the other still stays on his or her toes. 2c as anti-air ( or 6a if they're really close) and throw out occasional 6c's at max range. Personally I just wait for the other to do something and punish. Few pointers 1. stay out of 360a range 2. watch out for tick throws and tager's various tech traps 3. be very careful against magna tech wheel... of course. and remember to IB the last hit if you are in the air and without barrier 4. watch out for A sledge getting in. backdash is more useful in this matchup than others 4. learn to hit confirm 6c into shippu playing this match a lot and staying on the defensive will also help you time your counters better, as well. Remember to 5d/6d his 6c (big overhead smash) and be especially careful because it will beat out your 6c if you're a bit late. DISCLAIMER : don't flame me if this is wrong... just how I play through it....

[A.X.I.S.]

most haku's i fight just IAD J.a to bait backdash, even if tager IB's it he can't punish, and if you IAD J.C just right then you can 2A as soon as you land spam that then jump, most haku's do that to me and it annoys me to no end. miso thats the simplest way to do the match-up.

[MisoSowee]

Keep

It

Simple

Stupid

I've always liked that rule... not to mention I'm more able to work on my faults in a more simplistic match, by mastering the ranges and speeds of 2c and 6c. But the way I put it is pretty exaggerated. I'll play footsies with 'em for a lil while, and push 'em into the corner as they backdash and hit confirm into renka - j.2c combo. Though if you're going to do that be careful with conditioning, they might atomic collider if you don't do jump - j.B right away.

[A.X.I.S.]

i found that IBing 2C puts you in a bad spot, hell IBing 6A as well is a oh crap moment, strangely i played this match up and the tager i fought couldn't IB 2C...am i the only one that finds IBing easy?

[MisoSowee]

Even if tager IB's 2c I'm still pretty well off. IB'ing 6a isn't reall much either, that thing is waaay fast o_o. (and i can frame trap you with special cancels as well, so be careful with that) I used to be really mystified when it came to tager's tech traps and such but now I don't get so scared when he's near (I shouldn't really) It's really easy to see one of his moves that isn't 5a/2b/5b and drive it, or to j.B when I find myself in 360A/collider situation.

[Savageshell]

Well youve mentioned Tagers tech traps and looking through Haku's forums I have seen them mentioned but what are these exactly?...While trying to put pressure on Tager I would throw out 2A after landing to try and hit confirm only to get thrown...I dont know exactly what move Tager does when he kind of propels forward after jumping...kinda like a headbutt or something whats the best way to punish that?

[mAc Chaos]

I try hit-and-run tactics against Tager.

[MisoSowee]

The headbutt is j.C. He's really hard to beat out air-to-air when he's doing the headbutt, but j.2c will beat it cleanly. tech traps include things like him spamming 5a and then doing 360a. 360a is command, so it can't be teched. Also, if you jump that, the tager can instead do atomic collider if he predicts your jump. They're basically set-ups that are designed to catch you off guard. (that's my definition at least)

[Savageshell]

ok I understand what you mean with the 5A into 360...whats the best options on wake-up for Haku then because Id either try to block and get thrown or try and tech throw or throw then get hit with 5A...is wake-up Tk Hotaru something that could work?

[A.X.I.S.]

roll tech could work, if tager is in throw range he probably won't 2D unless he knows your gonna do it. you could try holding up on your neutral tech or quick rise, i think its down+c or something.

[MisoSowee]

On wake-up like solbadass said, if they are not reading 2d, roll tech away. If they are, neutral tech than jump and then falling B - jump cancel out (careful if you're magnetized) wake up hotaru wouldn't work too well just because tager's throws are active really quickly, and tk motions (my experience anyways) are a bit delayed.

[BladeOfJustice7]

I got caught in this scenerio for the first time fooling around online in ranked match: What do you do when tager starts GETB while you're on the floor and magnetized, I mean as soon as you get up your caught and if you role (since you're magnetized) you'll be pulled back in.

[mAc Chaos]

Roll behind him.

[A.X.I.S.]

I got caught in this scenerio for the first time fooling around online in ranked match:

What do you do when tager starts GETB while you're on the floor and magnetized, I mean as soon as you get up your caught and if you role (since you're magnetized) you'll be pulled back in.

get and block...or if your ballsy 6D then 6D again, cactus guy did it to me awhile back.

[mAc Chaos]

? Why would you get up into a GETB and block? Or 6D? That'll just get you caught into it.

[A.X.I.S.]

if he's doing MTW on your wakeup then he's trapping you, if you get your 6D off it will make both moves wiff, do 6D again and he's caught. now if your hit with MTW then your better off barrier blocking and waiting for that rapid, you should have enough time to TK hotaru...which beats everything.

[mAc Chaos]

He said GETB, unless I'm reading it wrong. Like, you get knocked down and he tries to 720 you as you get up.

[A.X.I.S.]

oh then never roll a GETB you'll roll into it...here's what you do. hold up on neutral or normal get up...either way it wiff's. thats why i rarely do it on wake-up...its meaner things that can be done.

[Heroic_Legacy]

What do you do when tager starts GETB while you're on the floor and magnetized, I mean as soon as you get up your caught and if you role (since you're magnetized) you'll be pulled back in.

Jump?