Zeero

i heard spamming 2 token shots are the best way to victory

the 1st time he did the volante crossover, he couldnt follow it up. Volante's hitstun isnt enough to make it a worthwhile setup because if you vivace early so you can recover and combo from it, they can block the volante since its easy to spot coming. the 2nd time he did the volante crossover, bang just jumped it and was playing dumb and landed into a 5A sorry but I can't consider things that arent rewarding and hits more like a gimmick a legit setup. Learning when to stop attacking with Nirvana is obviously one of the most important things to do with Carl. The point that I'm trying to make is not that "you can't spam nirvana anymore", its more along the lines of "Carl's gameplay is restricted because you have to constantly stop nirvana even when you've worked hard to earn a situation". In the 2nd round alone, Nirvana almost died twice before he actually got the sandwich (situation u're working for the whole round). So what happens when he finally gets the sandwich (at 9:45)? He had to stop Nirvana like you said. What would have happened if he didn't use Nirvana like he did before he got the sandwich? The game might have looked very different because he wouldn't do nearly as much damage as he did with bang running into random 4Ds and Brio (4Ds were this carl's major points of damage, tell me how many 4Ds you normally see work in higher level play). Carl no longer has the freedom of playing a zoning game with nirvana while at the same time playing a mixup/pressure game due to Nirvana's life. This Carl is a perfect example where he sacrifices sandwich pressure to do random volantes/brios/4Ds that the bang didn't know how to deal with. There were maybe only once or twice where he did a weak sandwich pressure which was easily blockable (bang didn't block it though) due to nirvana's limitations. and am I seriously the only one who sees that the bang doesn't know how to play against carl (or wasn't impressive in general)? I've never seen someone eat so many 4Ds in 2 rounds. Obviously Carl will always have the upper hand against people who don't know how to deal with him. All my points that I talk about goes towards a high level play where opponents are actually at equal levels. If you want to put it in a sense that Carl can rape people who don't know the matchup, i completely agree. I think hes probably the best character in the game if you want to put it that way. What I'm talking about is once people know how to deal with carl and his moves/properties, hes not a solid character at all.

clearly k2 is trying to make his tokens sound like a better deal so you can buy his tokens and feed him. because obviously 20 dollars gets your 100 tokens instead of 80.

im not saying its not better oki, i'm just saying better oki doesn't mean much when they restrict the other factors needed for a proper followup of the oki (read as, nirvana bar) and for each of your options tick throws -> volante option is gone now, ending a combo with 3D, then doing a block string into volante, then doing the throw will kill nirvana too much i would imagine. Asides from that, throw combos do crappy damage (?) and is injustice for nirvana bar (or whats left of it) 6C RC 2A -> desperate <2k damage for 50% meter j2C allecan throw bait -> If you're training them to tech throws from a 3D, its probably a purple throw. if you're doing a tick throw to train them, then the game has no improvements from CS1, except now coupled with low nirvana bar and damage. crossup vivace into 4D -> one mixup which i forgot, which never works anymore once people get used to it, on block, 6B really only goes into this mixup unless you want to die... and remember you're doing this from 3D, nirvana is already half dead by the time you do this. unblockables -> if you can pull it off, sure i guess. doesn't mean nirvana is still gonna live jumping -> we're still talking about forcing people to block the 3D right? so how is this a mixup anymore? they tech and block the 3D regardless if you're jumping or not. i would think you don't float long enough to actually get a mixup off a 3D -> jump straight up Incase you misunderstood me, I'm just saying, the 3D game isn't going to cover what carl has lost. 3D doesn't do anything as an oki tool, 3D into pickup into j2C jB jC is where the game needs to evolve to for carl to do anything, but even when it does get to that stage, his inherit weaknesses aren't gone. And i'm saying, you're going to spend half your nirvana bar catching your opponent, at that point you only have 2 mixups. I'm also saying Carl has the worst damage output off random hits, he also has the worst options off random hits. Obviously if you're hitting them while they happen to be in NOC then you do decent damage (~3k with the new j2c jb loop) but how often does that arise if they're trying to stay away from you? Most vids nowadays starts off with carl chasing like crazy, getting some sort of random hit -> 623C blah jb jc fucoco vivace, but then that situation does not allow you to get into a decent mixup opportunity imo. Theres the volante relaunch combos but they don't lead you to oki. All the mixups you listed were available in CS1 and aren't set up differently just because we gained this new oki game. All i'm trying to say is, this new oki game isn't as good as you think. imaginative mixups are nice, but fundamentally the mixups are all weak and lead to weak things due to various reasons.

being forced to block 3D on tech has no significance if Carl's mixup game is weak after you've learned the matchup. The major problem with carl is that he cannot compete in damage off random hits and his low life/inability to be either cat or mouse. In a nutshell, his mixup game (on block) breaks down to like A/5B -> iad j2c crossover 6B -> 6C 6C his mixup game becomes stronger if he does it off hits because the j2c crossover becomes inescapable (off 5B blocked, you can just jump it), but in the end, its still just a crossover off all his hits (6B -> crossover, 5B crossover, everything crossover) I don't know, stronger oki means nothing to me if the mixup game remains the same. His game isn't like Makoto/Noel (or even bang/ragna for weaker characters) where things leaves them in advantage of frames/range and you're afraid of pressing buttons/reacting due to frame traps and whatnot, so they can consistently dish out even small damage or keep pressure. Carl's game is a burst of mixups, which is now just 1 or 2 because of nirvana's health, and it doesn't even do enough damage due to damage/life ratio. I don't know, Japan always ranks Carl as A (even now i think) i never really understand why. I sometimes think its because they never end up playing against the same person for too long so Carl has an advantage that way, his mixups are hard to react to but once you know them, its really easy to guess whats coming and block imo.

i bought back lots of love. and some rapage. >_> <_< (no)

yo it feels good to play BB/GG again it feels even better to be awake at 5am even when im sleepy, why am i doing this? fuck it, bai

ninjas im back gety tonight

Happy new year!!! tnx everybody!! uhh im fucking drunk lol... zzz...

Thanks everyone! At the airport right now. Thanks to my moms expired gold airmiles membership, we both get free upgrade to business class. Stay gdlk mom lol

tnx for coming out tonight guys, i'll see u all in 2/3 weeks! don't get too beast at CS2 without me (if it comes lololol)

I think cantabile 6B is better for positioning for sjc jB j2C? maybe coz 5C puts them too far? personally i'd like to try something like 5b 6b summon+cantabile hold 6D 6B hjc hold 9 jB jA jB dj jB jC and see if Nirvana makes it to the other side to do 3D and combo

I guess we're gonna have to wait until we play it oh wait...

well like, 2D j2c allecan 5C superjump AC or something, I'm sure they can do something to get the jC ender for 3D. I mean like, i'm seeing this Carl loop the 8D twice in the combo. I know 8D reverse prorates now so it makes sense to do it, but i thought i still same move prorates like crazy? Unless the same move prorate is still more damage that 2D i guess. Which would be pretty sad for 2D. now that i think about it this is just sad forget why i asked actually no way, how can 8D under same move proration do more damage >_< i'm confused as hell

awww i feel loved. Good job roldy, next time come drink with us.

Just because the proration is bad doesn't mean you can't end a combo with 2D superjump jC 3D or something like that I also thought they went GG style with the air unblockables, that everything but 5A ground based is pretty much air unblockable. Air unblockable being you need to FD of course...

coming back on the 10th, taking 11th off work, going back to work on 12th. why?

well i suppose it depends on what industry you're involved in...

ahh week before christmas when nobody gives a shit about work and just slacks off and calls it a day

lol that carl shows exactly what i'm talking about. all these gimmicky setups which aren't exactly effective. They might get hit but it gets him nothing, setups thats hurt people know how to block. Those setups were so gimmicky its like "6b fucoco superjump airdash back" lol Does anyone know why people stopped doing 2D in combos btw? i don't even see people try to cantabile 5B 2D anymore. does 2D knock down on air hit or something Volante i can understand since it takes like 20% of her bar I'm not so much in support for the concept of "solo carl". I mean if we have to end up relying on solo carl, then that symbolizes a character design flaw right? We're playing a character that has a drive button just to control nirvana yet we're can't use it? Its like saying we might as well restrict Arakune from getting curse twice in a round or something. In my community where people have fought me so much, they won't fall for j2c crossovers on block (actually they punish it). Its easier to land j2c crossovers off hits, but i only win because of jB fatal/damage off setups. While j2c crossovers off hits are still possible in CS2, all i'm saying is that we're not getting anything added to Carl's game and only stuff taken away if we're going to end up relying on the same setups as CS1 except do half as much damage. I hate to be realistic but to me the whole CS2 carl concept is kind of flawed in so many ways. Oki character without good(new) oki mixups, zoning character? without exactly the tools to zone, can't rushdown, can't defend. lol To be honest though, i'm looking towards playing CS2 Carl just because hes so gimmicky/trolly. In that vid, he did like cantabile 5C superjump jAC fucoco and airdash back jB, something like that? Although I don't see it as a useful setup, it looks troll and I love trolling lol. As a side note, Arakune pit super off jC as well? that hurts my feelings =( ground string -> 6B -> pit super, air string -> jC -> pit super. Bye carl.

says the guy who played potemkin in the tournament

i like how theres a farewell for anybody leaving, it doesnt even matter for how long lol john leaves for 2 years, theres a farewell wu leaves for a month, theres a farewell i leave for a week, theres a farewell hermes leaves for 4 days to evo, theres a farewell

just a feeling of when to or when not to press buttons how to punish what with what how you react to certain situations getting a good read on your opponent improvisation of what to do when things didnt turn out right so you get the best of what you want basically stuff that should be transferable from all games because its fundamentals to all games

extended combos means nirvana will die and you will unlikely get anything off the following oki game. Not to mention with Carl's proration being 70% now, extended combos won't even do that much more damage. nirvana dying and taking 16 seconds to recover now means within that 16 seconds, you're already dead. Its also hard to see extended combos come out because: 1. You don't have good starters anymore, anything going into cantabile means you can probably only get 1 volante or 1 4d + 1 2d in your combo ending with 8D, and i guess you can still jC knockdown, Nirvana is already half dead by then. The only good starter you have is like, CH 3C which you may be able to do old combos again. 2. You probably won't top 3ishk due to all the prorations and cantabile. hitstun proration/same move proration/proration decrease in general raped his damage. You're sacrificing oki and half of nirvana's bar for 3k. I'm sure at this point in the vids its not that the combos don't work, its that the combo's arent worth it. The game feels like back to CT when it favours people on the offense, people using gold bursts in combos will kill you now, especially the top tiers. To get out, you use a burst, which now you're at 2 primers. Not that it was different from CS1, but now that your vivace lost its invincibility and wakeup super for trades isn't very viable anymore, you're going ot be guard broken into command grabs which will kill you off. Damage was the only saving grace for carl in both CT and CS1, they take it away, carl is done. Every Carl i see in vids so far wins because the opponent doesn't know how to block mixups from blocking (imo) which isn't very convincing. Its not like his setups off jC/3D were impressive, people just didn't know how to block iad j2c crossover. In fact I even see less possibilities with jC/3D than trying to reset off the ground without going into and air combo because the 3D pushes them towards carl making j2c crossover impossible. Yes im practically saying j2C crossover is the only legit mixup carl has. I think his game will eventually evolve into ending ground sandwiches with rhapsody in hopes that the opponent doesn't know how to block. Because that actually does 3k+ without nirvana using much bar since DD's don't use bar and there are probably more setups from that than jC/3D

The concept is all wrong, you now have an oki based character, who's oki game (a good one) depends on Nirvana, except Nirvana doesn't have enough life to support the oki game. If you want any damage from your oki, you need to use Nirvana as well, so its like using half her bar for 2k, then you're left with the other half for your oki -> combo -> reset? ok... Asides from that, this is what I've been seeing so far with the 3D, hopefully its because people just aren't used to using it well. 1. jC -> 3D doesn't combo - people time their tech over the 3d so it avoids blockstun from 3D, then its back to standard solo carl mixups with nirvana recovering 2. jC -> 3D combos -> it feels to me that jC knocks them down too fast, while 3D is hitting, you're still in the air, when you land, you probably can't follow up 3d with another combo, so it'll be blockstring -> mixup, we all know how good carl's mixups are from block right? (sarcasm) 3. jC -> no 3D - jC knocks them down too fast, by the time htey finish teching you've just landed, i don't like this lol. I think if his jC didn't knockdown so fast/close, there'd be a lot more setups based on that. I think the current jC puts them too close to you to even like jC -> land -> iad j2C crossover and they recover too fast so its easy to react to. Its a very thin line between broken and bottom for character concepts like Carl, I think in CS2 he definitely won't be higher than mid, in fact I see him as low. The only reason why he was top in CT was because of the throw loop (read, damage) and high tier in CS1 was because of his 5-6k average damage. It feels to me that the decrease in Nirvana's health is already a major part, but now they even took away his damage. So sad =( still playing him though lol