_Sey

Makoto is, so far, the hardest character to hit with either route... I bet Platinum/Carl could be even worse loll. Looks like d.5A 5C 4D xx 214D~66A is the most consistent route on her.

yeah I haven't grinded hountejin stuff yet but the changed the frames (startup iirc) on scoop so I was also dropping it way too much lol I was also dropping going into stance a lot likely because of the new input buffer... fml It's way easier than I thought, likely the easiest it has ever been to pick up from Hountejin actually ahah Just go straight into stance and when 2P is close to Hazama's head do ~66C. Anyone working on midscreen stuff? I've been testing 5A 5C 5D vs. 5A 5B 5C 4D and it feels like the first route is a bit more inconsistent compared to the second one (it was a bit iffy at first vs. Celica but I've got it down now, so idk). The reduced KD time on j214B setups a frame perfect meaty 236C if the opponent recovers asap, just sayin'

I had no idea we actually had a CP2 combo thread already up and going, I'm pleasantly surprised loll, this has to be a first for the Hazama forums. I can't wait for the game to drop, I think grounded ch 2C may have gone back to being a godlike normal for frame traps just like in CP1 (as in, we won't have to commit to IAD'ing to be able to convert a counter hit). I randomly saw a dude link ch 2C > 5D (which works already in CP1.1 but hard/unreliable to convert into meaningful damage), I think we should be able to convert it into xx 214D~66A stuff quite easily, at worst it could be character specific. I think 214D~66C midscreen and 214D~66A in corner could prove interesting as enders to setup safejumps or meaties/OS' to catch rolls. Actually I'm pretty sure I saw Noze end something into 214D~66A and then doing nj.B (or nj.2C), which looked awfully similar to CSX era 214D~B corner setplay! To end combos into 214D~66A we may have to lose some damage off conventional starters though, although I think <stuff> with back to the corner will lend nicely to 214D~66A oki. It's not combo related but I also saw Noze mashing j214B vs. Valk whenever he'd end up blocking wolf normals while airborne, I wonder if they changed j214B somehow or if it has always been an option that no one ever did lol. the 23rd can't come soon enough!

I really liked how you went over and explained Relius/Jin/Izayoi options, SKD. How do you feel about Hazama's pressure? I feel like he's... somewhat like Jin? I mean, Hazama's pressure works around the same idea that (back)throw is your biggest focus and most threatening option but, unlike Jin, Hazama doesn't truly have a "threatening" option (well, not anymore/not in this version, although he's has somewhat higher "average" damage off midscreen frametraps) to try and stop you from upbacking/mashing if you have a 6f 2A or know how to deal with a lot of his options (e.g IB 5B and mash 2A or upback, challenging their 2A pressure if the Hazama can't frametrap with 2A 5C or 2A 2C, 5B delay xC, blabla). (obviously Hazama's A/Bs are better than Jin's looking at frame advantage alone and serve a different purpose blabla, I don't feel like typing too much rn lol) His command grab is strong because it compliments how his pressure works but is not necessarily a strong (damaging) option by any means... it's still a command grab though. Stance (214D~A tbh) is OK at best, it truly is mostly a way to just try and keep the pressure going or something you can throw out as a "quick" mix-up (e.g dash up 2A/2B xx 214D~A), "long" blockstrings into stance are pretty worthless. His 6A is obviously fast but not as fast as Jin's, but they do share a similar use/effectiveness. A good example of how someone is supposed to pressure with Hazama is (obviously) Mitsurugi, he often goes for really "quick" mix-ups foregoing any long blockstring while favouring going back to neutral if he doesn't land a throw/6A/something. Meanwhile I still remember one of the early CP2 set with Udon vs. Tetsuwo where Udon was totally off with his pressure, literally never scoring a hit because Tetsuwo knew exactly how to use fuzzy jumps, where to IB/barrier, etc while Udon focused too much on just making Tetsuwo block /SOMETHING/.

Dora said Hazama is one of the strongest character in CP2. Both Umanohone (top valk) and Kaichou (top? Izayoi) put Hazama along Nu and Valk in S tier on their tier list. I was right. :^)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQhC_LdI3Ho&feature=youtu.be hazama can still loop (once) jC not that it matters much now that he can just combo into 5ACD 214D~66A comboable midscreen f.throw he's going to be good!

PSN: Sey789 Country: Milan, Italy Main(s): Mitsuru I'll play anyone as long as we have at least a 2 bars (3 would be better) connection.

From Mitsurugi, we still have decent damage off midscreen b.throw: ４投げ>5C6C>5DD>J2スカ>2C>4DA>J8DD>JC6>ヒレン　3500位 CP2 Hazama is going to amazing, trading a bit of mobility (although Hazama does have more chain options with full stock now), possibly slightly lower damage midscreen off common starters(?) for better pressure/new corner routes is going to be worth it. GCOD hountejin also has a lot of potential. I wonder how the GCOD metagame is going to workout for us though, I'm not too sure how the mechanic works but I don't think it's going to impact us too much given how Hazama's pressure is more about doing a couple of really fast normals xx cmd grab/214d~/resetting back to neutral than setting up "long" blockstrings, moving back ending blockstrings with 6C could prove useful when dealing with people looking to GCOD. It could also be why they decided to buff 6C so much this time around after what, 5 games? where it was at best a glorified combo fodder.

AoA~D can work as a different way to set up "safe" oki rather than going for B droit > njB (which I think is a safe jump... haven't bothered testing it yet tbh). (corner) AoA~D (fatal) iad back 2C 5A is often used by YMST to keep up a bit of pressure while still being relatively safe

I was looking for combos lists on Yukari's japanese wiki/jbbs and I finally found something, I haven't bothered translating it yet (google translate works fine) but it pretty much explains her combo theory/routes outside of 5AAA confirms which we all know by now. Confirms (first half) 5Bor2Bch>2C>jc>JC>jc>溜めJ2B～ 5A>5C>2C～(しゃがみorfc) JA>JC>jc>溜めJ2B～ JA>JC>JD>下りJB>着地ジャンプJB>jc>溜めJ2B～ Midscreen enders 着地(微ダ)5B>低ダJB>微ダ5B>足払い(スカ)>微ダ5AAA>ボム>5B>2C>jc>JB爆破>jc>フリップ 着地5B>溜め2B>ボム>2B爆破>9hjc>dフリップ(端付近不可) Midscreen-to-corner enders (着地5B>低ダJB>)2B>溜め5B>ボム>5B>2C>JB爆破>jc>Cフリップ Corner enders ボム>5B>2C>JC>jc>J2B爆破>着地溜め5B>Cフリップ(前半でJC使ってない時) AアローscDマハガルーラ>ダッシュ5Aスカ>振り向きJD>7j溜めJ2B>着地AアローscDマハガルーラ>5D>超Bアロー(覚醒飛ばし) 割り込み超Aアロー>JC～(覚醒ry

Haven't got the chance to grind combo on Aigis yet, but I swear that Rise has some really weird hurtbox when getting juggled, you have to delay 5B > 2C waaaay more than normal just to stand a chance at connecting jC, I've even got jC to hit only once and yet still bounce her on the ground.

You never need to charge j2B when doing stuff off 5AAA, as long as you hit the floor bounce with jC you can just jc j2B and go from there (dash 5 if close to the corner). delaying 2C as much as possible after 5B should fix any trouble you may have with jC connecting (the hitbox is somewhat weird... but it's pretty much in front and below Yukari, so you don't want 2C to juggle people really high)

5AAA confirms 5AAA > 214A > 5C > 5B > 2C > j.C > jc > j.2B > land > 236C~ (Yukari stays in front) 5AAA > 214A > 5C > 5B > 2C > j.C > jc > j.2B > j.236D~ (Side switch) 5AAA damage/hits can vary depending on the opponent, 5AAA hits Kuma 12 times, Mitsuru 15, Narukami 17, Minazuki 14, etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDvs-jFkPos&list=UUMFfjggcRWQUk5pj4XZsrQQ Stahp it Noze

meaty assimilation (or meaty throws) do not exist in UNiEL. the only situation where """meaty""" throws could work are: - opponent is mashing throw on wake up and you 214A - opponent is mashing anything not airborne on wake up and you do 214C and meaty 6B is also a pretty poor and telegraphed option that will either get you punished or end up with the other guy backdashing out of it most of the times.

it's j.[C]

Wow, this just made my day, I finally got to play against a good Merkava just to realize how stupid/difficult to punish that super was unless I had meter stocked. How about dealing with his flight? 623C is the go-to option if we have meter, but without any it seems like Gordeau can't really do much about it unless it's something stupid like a corner-to-corner flight, in that case 623B works just fine. So far I think the only feasible option is a reactionary 3C to slide under his flight resetting to neutral, which isn't really that good of an option but it's still x100 times better than letting him get in for free. I guess dash up 2C could work too but it also feels like the best way to end up getting hit by an early flight or a fireball. EDIT: welp, I should have tested low flight too. 3C loses to low flight but 623B reaches him which makes for an easier situation to deal with, 214B seems unreliable vs. both versions of his flight

I swear I could punish a point blank 66C with 2B (and not 5B) although it was pretty strict. Hmm, I don't really want to bug him about re-checking data and stuff so I guess I'll go test stuff a bit more myself, thank you. The in-game debug feature is pretty accurate so far though... it lists stuff that japan has been saying for a while too like 4fr throws and -8fr adv after a teched throw, no disrespect but your data could be wrong, or, well, it's very slightly off while some stuff is the same... dunno. Some data I forgot to post about 5A (startup/active/recovery) Whiff: 5 2 12 (19) On hit\block: 5 1 21 (27) +4 3C seems pretty nuts though, is there more than max distance to get that kind of frame advantage? like some character with a huge horizontal hurtbox? How's everyone been using meter? I have no idea what's the most efficient way to end combos.

A friend has access to the frame data feature hidden in training mode so I asked him about a couple of stuff: - 5A st: 6 adv: -1 - 5B st: 8 adv: 0 - 2B st: 7 adv: -4 - 22A st: 20 adv: +7 - 236C adv: +5

j.[C] jA jB does slightly more damage than the jB2 jC route, j[C] jA jB does 3117 starting from 5B 2B, jB2 does 3097 (well, it does more off this particular confirm, haven't tested it thoroughly yet) Something I was toying around earlier in training mode was (starter) > 2C(2) j.[C] 66C > hold up and j.[C], I saw GO1 doing this a couple of times and I think it may be a safejump, but I didn't really get the chance to test it much yet (mostly spent my time practing combos, I'll likely get around to test it later). as for the 3C 2B 5C jB2 jC route, I noticed that delaying 3C > 2B and doing 2B > 5C as a late gatling floats the opponent quite a bit lower than normal, but I haven't practiced that route much yet either. I'm pretty sure the jB2 route will NOT work on Eltnum however, as you just can't delay jB2 on her because she'll just drop out in between jB(1) and jB(2).

I don't think 5B＞2B＞5C＞3C＞236A＞236A＞3C＞2C＞Charged j.C＞j.A＞j.B＞3C＞236A＞236A＞236A works on Gordeau. I've found the timing to make it work on the whole cast BUT Gordeau, tested by registering the dummy doing the combo. Either there's something I'm missing about it or it does not work on him. Just delay the jump cancel from 2C(2) as much as possible and you'll get it.

Has anyone had any luck landing combos (consistently) like: 5B > 2B > 5C > 3C > 236A > 236A > 3C > 2C > j.[C] > j.A > j.B > 3C > 236A > 236A > 236A on Eltnum or characters that aren't Merkava/Hyde/Linne/Wald? I even asked Destrade and he said all his stuff is universal (but might be hard on Vatista/Chaos) but I'm having an hard time not having Eltnum air recover between jB and 3C, I can't seem to delay j.A > j.B enough to not drop the combo entirely same thing with the jB(2) > jC route... setting up counter or high counter pretty much fixes everything though, so I guess I may have to input everything just a bit faster or something EDIT: welp, just delay the jump cancel after 2C(2), that'll give you enough time to still combo j[C] while letting eltnum fall to the ground enough to not drop jB(1) 3C and yeah 22A has indeed quite a bit of frame advantage, I'm not sure how much it is but 22A 2A is definitely not a true blockstring though

Some corrections/findings: 66C can be safe on block even if non-meaty, spacing dependent, if done point blank it's -7 2B is as fast as 2A (7f), 5B is slower than 2B (don't know by how much, it's very likely just a frame or two though) As for why someone should use meaty 66C for oki instead of 2A: 66C has homing properties, which means you don't really care whether they neutral tech or roll back as you will hit meaty on both (and still be +0 frame wise), but meaty 2A will lose to back roll (but obviously gives you more pressure options).

d.ash 6C but I guess 66C works as well so I'll just switch to that notation next time! anyway, here's a vid where GO1 runs meaty 66C quite often, he mixs it up with assault j.C and meaty 2A, pretty basic stuff but I'm not sure (yet) if 66C may have some kind of advantage over meaty 2A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSE_zm6LE6w Destrade also uploaded a video showcasing those combos, but it may not be up to date with the new list on evernote http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm23578332

I was looking around for frame data for Gordeau and found this (not complete): http://www43.tok2.com/home/photonman/gordeau_wiki/waza1.html It's written by PhotonMan or something like that, dunno if he's a good player or not but I'm pretty sure I was a combo vid/tutorial on youtube by him. By testing in training mode I'm pretty sure that 5B is 0 on block, d.6B is waaay punishable on block unless spaced correctly, 3C is pretty much safe unless shielded, d.6C seems to be punishable on block, but if you do it meaty (e.g: 214A dash, small delay 6C) it's 0 on block, all the other data for the other normals seems to be pretty much what I had tested too, so I'm going to guess it's somewhat accurate.