Ree301

Well if he hits you low, he's still going to get meter. High? Low? He's still going to hang you, but /I've/ never seen him get things off j.2D. I'd look for the jump cancelable normals and gamble on low, similar to how Hazama match ups go. Having said that, I don't know this match up all too well since he's so foreign and new to me. I've only really played a few online who have some awkward frame traps, and not much else. I still can't get over his stomp super being OH though.

I think it's Terumis 5B, his falling heel he does in blockstrings all the time? I daifunka through that crap all the time. It's too tight to jump out of, but DD's get out for discount. Can he combo off of his overhead??? Let's just block low and look for his command grab/ semi-circle chain.

So, I picked Bang back up in CP after a long break since Extend. I play against a Jin pretty regularly, so please sift through what I've learned and update the original post (I'll try and use the format mentioned above, with some liberties). This match up seems pretty even, if not even, then in Jins favor due to his pokes, heat gain, damage output and Bangs lack of a serious crouching punish. I'm going to call it a 4-6 Jin. Starting the match out, I like to IAD back poison nail and let the Jin player do his thing, get a feel for the match. Jumping in with barrier up at start in a decent option as well. You'll block his DP or air poke if he throws it, and if he doesn't, or goes for a 2D or something ballzy, you get a good punish and a seal. Just be ready for the IAD air throw from him. At neutral, Jins 5B/C are pretty ridiculous. Bang can't quite confirm a max range 5B that stuffs Jins 5B and his 5C will beat our poke outright. Stay mobile and fish for falling j.B and A nails to disrupt his pokes and land one of your own. If you land a combo and you're going for oki, pressure with a well spaced 2B. This tool is amazing vs. Jin as it's safe from the wake-up violent ice DP, picks up rolls, and is + on block for pressure. You could use bumpers and IAD's to cross up on Jins wake-up to ruin his inputs too. I like the 6D> B bumper setup myself. If Jin hits you first and you're on the defensive, well that sucks. His pressure is strong in this iteration and a lot of Bangs outs are (forgive the term) hit or miss. What makes his pressure strong is not that he has a high low game, but that he has strings into awkwardly timed, safe moves. If you're going to wake-up 6D, do it sparingly. Another decent option as long as you're not in the corner is to wake up> back dash. He can punish if he gets wise to it though, with dash 6C or IAD j.D etc. His only overhead is 6A and he can only combo from that with meter. He'll likely go from 5C> stuff, notable is the 5C>5D gatling. 5D FC's for Jin, but you can 6D guard point/ teleport it for some mind gamey stuff. The Jin I play knows my Bang playstyle and punishes that 6D attempt with a D ice car. Infuriating. Jins 5C is jump cancelable on block and gatlings into 6C and that goes into 6B (If either of these moves hit you first hit/ p1, burst or bite the pillow because they start great combos). 6B is safe, but you CAN contest it with some risk using 6D. The issue with this is that Jins normals are insane and sometimes hit on both sides of him. CH6D and a change of screen position is worth it if you're suffering in the corner. It's a good idea for Jin to cross you up often with jump cancelable moves like after 5C, IAD j.D or IAD j2C, so be ready to react to that. Jins TK j.623D hits overhead unlike all his other air enders. In corner, he can throw this after 6B for a mixup or midscreen for a last hit kill. Also, news to me, but D ice car hits friggin' low now. Apparently his B one hits low too, but that's unconfirmed right now. As for air game, Jins air normals are mindless and amazing. They hit on both sides of him and are way easy to abuse. The best way to avoid broken tactics is to take the MAHVEL route and not be caught in the situation in the first place. Easier said than done as Jin can confirm a stray j.C into a combo from just about any angle, air hit or naw. As for a solution, strangely enough, Bangs 3C can be an answer to Jin aerials. It'll beat sloppy IAD attacks all day and FC for pretty good damage. Outside of that, it'll move Bang far enough away from Jin to avoid a serious punish. Seals are great in this match up. If you have meter, he isn't allowed to jump, period. He can hit you out with j2C but he has to read it far in advance. One more note for air game, if Jin escapes an air throw, his j.C poke will beat anything Bang does. Ending points, most of Jins damage comes from corner combos. His corner push is great, so you'll likely find yourself there eventually. I'm not positive about this, but learn his corner combos and time a burst when he throws his C-dragon punch, violent ice. His recovery is more than yours and your burst won't blow him away. It can be frustrating to catch a mobile Jin since his j.C can space you well. Creative use of nails, poison, exploding, and D nails, will get you in. If something is wrong or you guys have objective questions, lmk.

I know the game isn't out in the states yet, but is there any chance the first post is going to be updated for those of us who have the JP version of the game? I could re-write the combos in a PM, and you could just review, copy and paste to save time if you'd like. Also, my BnB looks like this; -- Midscreen: 5B>2B>6C>22A>j.C <land> 66>5B>j.C>IAD>j.C>j.2C>j.236A <land> 5A>6C>j.D>j.236C <land> 66>5C>6D>623B>2C -2 nails, + 27 heat?, 3.8k -- I had a lot of trouble with the 6C>IAD, then the j.C IAD back to back. My brain wants those similar hits to work the same as far as timing, and they don't so, 'til I'm better, this is where I make all da monies. Add a DD, switch the 5C for 5D in the corner as needed (seals/ oki/ wall bounce range). Optimal? Probably not, but it's easy to do. Also, I'm noticing the 2C ender doesn't work on everyone (i.e. Rachel) and the j.C's are little finicky on some characters (Noel).

Yo, I've been searching for an online match here in Sumter, SC for about an hour now... And all I'm getting is 0 bars maybe once every 15 minutes. I'm on fiber for the love of God, is there anyone out there who can play? Also, is there an IRL casuals scene here? If not, I'll start it up. Let me know, I'm dying to get a community going.

It looks like it all timing dependent. But from my tests, it beats GETB, both A and B busters, and it's fast enough that you can jump out after his back dash before you're punished. There IS a note after this section of the video that mentions 2C, A buster, and GETB. From Japans results, I think it's saying that it's unsafe to use this technique on those wake up options. If someone can translate this vid and others related, that'd be just too cool. Side note, the video also shows Bang reading a tic throw and countering with 6C. This is high risk high reward stuff. Got me thinking though, you can TK Double Palm his shit on wake up too and that's only -4 for god sake. If we hit him, we can build sick meter and huge damage with fatal combos. What do you folks think? Practical? Bang vid. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qb9tqjCh9zM

I don't think 360A beats it, no. It might, lemme go test it. When I find out, I'll post a Bang tutorial I think I got the idea from.

Thanks for the heads up, I had no idea. Community ftw.

So you've been hit by 6B. Now's the right time to burst. Seriously though, Jin is a tough cookie. He has some great normals, some of them even hit behind him, giving him the luxury of occasional luck if we ever guard point directly behind him (Check out his 5B or 623C hit box). After blocking 2D or 6B, even 6A if you can manage to block it, the smart thing to do would be block again, right? + normals are dangerous, Jins know it, and they'll try to keep pressure up after. But every once in a while, we can 6D to try and get out, gain the momentum. If a Jib likes to wake up and DP C, Bang can keep a safe Oki game going by timing a 2B. It reaches out, then retracts so if a reversal DP C is used, it's still safely out of range. After said scenario, you can punish how you see fit. A note about his corner DP loop, it would benefit ALL players to learn it. The ender, 5A>5C>2C>623C, is extremely unsafe to green burst since Jin doing DP C won't be blown away, but still has a huge recovery time. Time it correctly, just as 623C starts, and you can punish this popular combo upon landing. Don't get this ender confused with ...5A>5C>2C> sj.D... since bursting here wouldn't really be too great a use of your resources. Make sure you've already been frozen, since Jins who know their combos won't go for a second freeze. (Note: If Jin ends this combo with Dp D, will he be blown away...? Or will he be able to dodge the burst, hold the second swing, and rape us after we land from the above mentioned tactic?)

The spinny... wheel thing on our Oki, it should be obvious but 6D out is a great option since without it, spinny wheel can be a tough tool to deal with. Her reversal super is also very good, very similar to Hazama's "Serpents Infernal Rapture" (Kick/ Jayoku) except I've never seen Lambdas trade. Respect it for sure. Do NOT however, respect her Gravity Seed. It has I. frames on start up but I never get hit by this. I'm wondering if Lambda mains even know about it :P

From Zeth, so you don't have to hunt down the punish. Can we update the first post as good info. arises? Just to note, taking what was shown in the combo video and basically Dora's twitter combo, you can actually build 50+ Heat off CH 6C from P2 Starting Position to combo into Ashura for more damage than the combo they did in the video. Not sure why they didn't come up with it in the video since they obviously came up with the same versions off FC j.623B and FC 3C. P2 Starting Position: (CH) 6C>B Nail Cancel>d.6C>(IAD) j.4C>j.623B>(d.5C)>6D>623B>2B>5B>j.B>j.4C>dj.B>dj. 4C>dj.C>B Nail>5A>Explosion>5C>2C>Ashura = [6,461] / 52 Heat / 1 Seal It can also work in the corner as well if you 7 jump the j.4C. And the IAD is optional or not needed at all for this combo. And since CH 6C in the corner hasn't been covered, Corner: (CH) 6C>B Nail Cancel>d.5C>2C>623B>5B>6C>7j.4C>j.623B>6C>j.B>j.4C >j.C>5A>5B>j.A>j.B>j.4C>dj.4C>dj.C = [6,045] / 56 Heat / (Note: Air enders into j.623B will allow them to tech before an Ashura can hit.) Since the first combo works in the corner you could always do that for more damage, but since it is only 400 or so more it might only be good if it is going to kill. So I'm looking for anyone to come up with a more damaging CH 6C corner combo that builds it's own meter for Ashura OR that just outright does more damage anyway. Needs to be over 6.4k. Hopefully 7k is possible, cause that would be one hell of a punish even though 6k is amazing anyway. Also here would be a seals version: (CH) 6C>B Nail Cancel>d.5C>2C>623B>2B>5B>j.B>j.4C>dj.B>dj.4C>dj.C >B Nail>5A>Explosion>6D>C Nail>6D>C Nail>5D = [5,043] / 49 Heat / 3 Seals There's probably a 4 seal version that someone can come up with that is still damaging and not some basic 4 Seal off CH 6C.

I'm not saying there aren't other answers to her wake up DP, I'm saying the answer I posted is new and interesting. And manly. Wake up 2D actually gets me thrown a lot. Also, YukiBlue, I'm not sure what you're referencing.

Our steel rain acts a lot like her 13 orphans. Do it on her wake up and see what happens lol It's doing a lot of damage nowadays and no one's been blocking the 5A 2A 5C 6B. Sometimes, the nails fall in just the right pattern with such little blockstun for Otoshi to grab as a trap and not as a purple throw. How dirty is that? Her pressure isn't that scary if you can dash 5A when she places her staff. A lot of people fall into patterns, and when she does, punish it and leave her shit out of luck without a DP to rely on. Hey, if you j.4B her a bunch, you might even avoid a desperate CA and have a good lawl about it.

I pressured a Mu on her wake up, she DP'd and I 2A'd at an awkward distance. And I hit her out of the move...? The sound effect for her DP went off, she said some Japanese stuff, and I just hit her out of it with 2A. How the hell did this happen? Also, in the same match I Ashura'd on her wake up and she used DP again (it was a high stakes moment). We clashed and I 6A'd into another Ashura ftw. Thinking about this though, if we predict this DP and clash with our Ashura (since it's hit box is so meaty) we can cancel the clash into a CMD grab for some good, unburstable damage. The only thing she can do is DP again, but who's going to react that fast, honestly. What else could we do there? 6C her standing hit box maybe?

GUARD POINTS! For the love of GOD use guard points and teleport. His pressure is so different and difficult to deal with, but I found my drives shut. him. down. The only time they're a bad idea is when he Auto-combo supers with Ignis while you're waking up. He can run up grab as an answer. Also, I've noticed this guy has a strange hit box coming off of a j.D hit. This is still such a new match up for me, there are so few good Relius players out there.

Reversal 6D is great until you get grabbed on wake up. A pretty safe option with bubble Oki since a jump out will get you trapped. But yeah, Bang mains need to learn to block once in a while. I'm guilty of it as well, I'm constantly looking for a place to do something cheeky like a reversal. If we could just block mixups...

Huey, Zeth, can we get a link to those combos in a vid or something? If not, can we see some notation for quick reference here? Just as an example.

Chazmobile is onto something there lol I've got some experience in this match up, lemme see if I can shed some light on it. Opening, he can't really catch you with anything but IAD. Having said that, a good Hakumen player will turtle a bit more in the beginning of the match. I'd count on him doing IAD back j.C. Naturally, as Bangus, we're like, OMG D NAILS. This mugs counter range is retarded, if he does Drive our d nails, he can snatch us up from way far so... No TKD nails to get in here, it doesn't seem smart. So at neutral he's got Air Dash j.B. 2D it if it looks like it'll going to make contact with him and worst case scenario, he blocks. That's cool, we can JC and reset pressure with nails or IAD j.4B. We can even jump away and go back to neutral. In pressure, grab a lot. purple throw even. what's a throw reject to us? Nothing. Whats a throw reject miss to Haku mashing Drive? Damage. Seals. Heat. It's a good option, thanks Chaz. On defense, almost all of Hakumen's normals are safe. 3C is -4 for goodness sake. Don't try to punish unless you're more playing the person than the character (good reads I mean). Jump out during awkward moments and maybe 3C is the worst that'll hit you. Save your bursts for crazy stuff, like if you see a 3 Mag move coming, or a Mugen death combo (Shippu, which is a 10 frame super now, while in Mugen does 4k minimum?! Also worth noting that he has an unburstable 6D>Mugen>Shippu combo). On offense, I like A nail combo enders. Folks get poisoned and lose their mind. It'll make a Haku rush you down instead of turtling for heat. I spoke of 2D AA earlier. CH leads to an easy 4 Seal combo and FRKZ is highly suggested here. Haku has j.A to deal with it, maybe Hotaru. But if we touch him, he dies. Speaking of, that's a decent option for him on wake up, like a pseudo DP. With tight pressure you can catch jump startup... but run the risk of getting countered. Rock, paper, scissors y'know.

6B puts you in the air. Using it on Tagers wake up for Oki can be very effective, especially if you have 50 heat to go into some godlike mix up. Tager does wake up 360 A/B/720, he's going to get CH. 2D does indeed beat out Tager j.2D, but it needs to be timed differently compared to other AA attempts since the move alters his momentum so much. General advice in this match up, I'd say stay in the air a lot. On wake up, neutral tech is a good option if you're expecting a tech trap since you can just jump and get out for free. Also, surprisingly enough, quick get up > jump works against traps too. Of course you run the risk of a meaty poke catching you on jump start up, but that's the game isn't it. Something I like to do a lot (as well as a lot of other Bang mains) is CMD grab after every air combo. Consider this, Tager's wake up is strong IF he's on the ground. If you grab instead of j.C to end a BnB, he has 2 options; Tech the throw (most likely choice) or eat 2.4k and still end up airborne for missing it. Either way Tager is in the air without a decent option while we have a few. Poison nail is always a solid choice. A bit riskier, throw break > air dash > A nail (minimal hit stun on block but interrupts rhythm enough to make them miss an input) to CMD grab. For lulz and a good kill combo that's flashy, that air Otoshi > RC last hit > Steel Rain.

Oh Ragna... I dont know how to play this match up well enough, he's so good at what he does. At start, I find his jumping straight up to be a safe option and all I can do is land a small air combo off j.B as best case scenario. I want to say rush him, dash 5b. He doesnt have heat yet, wont corner push, and has maybe a hells fang ender for you. Low risk as oppose to IAD back nail(s) for no risk. Neutral game, our 5B is good again so footsies is a decent option vs. his 5B. He wants jC or 5B but you can stop both with good spacing... j.C is stupid though. I got nothing else. IAD a nail to get in or b nail bumpers. Ragna offense is tricky when he pressures to a whiff 2C since it has little recovery. They'll throw this and then dash back in with a 2/5B. Stuff it if you read it with 5A. I am 90% sure if you hit him during dead spike, the hitbox disappears. Save your primers, look for 5D (1) to it. If you IB any 5C from him, throw a DD if you have it. Theres nothing he can do but try to ID out of it. If you feel courageous you can try to 6D but his massive hit boxes and GH overhead stop our hit from coming out. If you end up getting hit by Dead Spike, burst the next hit since the start up burst off dead spike is super readable and the hit itself prorates so well. His damage other than that comes from 6B. It gatlings off 5/2A, 2B, and 2C. Pretty slow, easy to block. If you have doubts, just block high and make him spend the heat for his damage. Breaking through his guard while he has ID. Make him use it. Then after youre sure he knows how, bait and punish. If he has 50 heat, expect the RC and back dash or keep blocking. If the golden opportunity presents itself, punish ID with a 6C combo. If you have seals by this time, FRKZ to force his burst or outright kill him. Really just... FRKZ anytime, Ragna has nothing on this. Anywho, Ragnas a big character, all your seal combos work and all your other combos work better. He only has a little bit of health so poison him after j.C to send him into a panic. If he BKs and is poison, he straight bleeds. Pick this apart for what its worth. He antiairs my jump ins a lot with 5A but i think thats just my being sloppy. Also he can DS full screen nails to neutralize your approach. Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk

This is my first time posting from a phone so please feel free to delete if its all... crazy disorganized. I personally love this matchup. In Bangs favor easily, 7 - 3? I feel like he has an answer for most things Rachel can do. The only trouble i find here is a way to land a good bnb to jD. Needless to say then, the relaunch bnb is worth practicing (I prefer the IAD version for the screen push but its pretty difficult for me. Tips?) Start of a match, i see winded 3C, sj back pumpkin/frog. Not super tough to deal with, but try to interrupt her zoning setup with nails or otherwise. Look out for pumpkin to seed. If you try to punish the seed, she can wind the pumpkin your way for CH to damage and oki. At neutral, the best option she has imo is winded air dash to pressure. It fast, surprising, and pushes pretty far on block or hit. If she seeds a lot, Bang can still 3C under for FC. And now he has sweet 2B relaunches so fish for this opportunity. George to seed happens, in my experience i find it better to ignite him on your terms or off him. 3C and 6D do it nice and clean. If you find him creeping while you pressure, just purple grab. Throw escape is better than the headache he starts. Rachel on offense is scary. Theres a point where 4B is an opening instead of a mixup lol. Her instant jA overheads are what to look out for. Sometimes she empty jump winds down for low or grab. If you read this, its hilarious to do 2A for that slap noise then ashura, for trolling only of course. Anyway, 6D can get you out of a lot. She can stagger A's effectively, and its tempting to guard point out. Dont do it, mash 2A on reaction will CH Bang easily. You CAN 6D a lot of her other tools though. Frog oki, seeds and pumpkins from range, sword iris, and tempest dhalia (also 3C under this at mid-close range). Fails against grabs, super annoying. Rachel on D. She can 2C after an IB 2A and 2C as kind of a reversal. Other than that, she has no DP really. If you suspect chair, use otoshi for easy 2k or more if you have the heat. I land a lot of cmd grabs after tight D nail resets myself, thats a popular chair opportunity. On hit, I guess just move her to the corner, right? Take seals where you can get them, FRKZ is good in this matchup. In the corner, you can get a nice meterless loop going doing 5C 6C j4C x n that does tons of damage. As a final note, consider steel rain as a defensive option while cornered. Hit me up with more info, i know she can neutral tech wind back as a gtfo option but i dont know a lot about that... i chase and 3C because im impatient... Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk

Shout outs to WoZscreamer, good stuff. I think im more excited about raccoons taunt xfc counter finish though haha Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk