p-kun

You are right. We don't know much about Litchi's background. I just personally don't define character as "deep" just because they are mysterious. Litchi is all about one single thing, that is saving Arakune. I personally don't find it deep. But then, I guess it's just the difference in opinion. I don't want Jin to be like Saya et al., hogging every spotlight like pests. I am disappointed as well, but I think you should not set your expectations too high, as long as Ragna is the main char, I doubt that Jin will do much in true end.

@ smooshman: There are already 2 of Jin (Jin and Haku). More spotlight is overkill. Ragna is a bigger question mark right now. We still don't know why he attacked NOL, how he came to conclude that NOL was responsible for what happened to him, what he suspected about Saya, or even the trivial thing such as how did he earn money for his journey anyway. BTW, how old is Ragna and Jin? I always assumed that Ragna was around 23 or 24 and Jin was around 21. But in Ragna's flashback, he looked like 15 and in Tsubaki's flashback, Jin looked like 10. This makes Ragna 23 and Jin 18 (Jin is waay to young)

@ FormerlyUnknown: is that a sarcasm? (honest question)

I always thought that he was holding it for safe keeping until the day he can give it to Tenjou's son. For some reason, I always assume that the one to use that Nox will be Tenjou's son (whether he turns out to be Bang or other char) We know that the Nox was owned by Tenjou. But we never know how Bang got to get the Nox. If it's said that it's a memento, then maybe Tenjou gave it to him, or maybe Bang swiped it after Tenjou died before it got pilfered by NOL or got buried in the ruin. I think you are all right, I just assume too far.

Bang are not supposed to be allowed to use Nox. That Nox is heirloom of Lord Tenjou, so only his son are allowed to use it, if we go by traditional Japanese/Ikaruga value. But then, there's possibility that Bang is Lord Tenjou's son (he just never knows it). And without Bolverk, Noel is just a useless crybaby, maybe around Linhua's level of threat. Without her connection with boundary, Litchi cannot remote control her staff. That Nox is not going to work gameplay wise.

No one is likely to snap Tsubaki out but Jin. Makoto might help a lot but I doubt that Tsubaki will be willing to hear Noel out. However, I always thought that it'll be interesting for Litchi and Tsubaki to chat. They are after all the exact opposite. Litchi is willing to forsake her values for love, Tsubaki forsakes her loves for her values. It'll give Tsubaki a food for thought. Terumi should have Tsubaki attack Ragna in front of Jin if he wants to assure Tsubaki's loyalty. But he doesn't need Tsubaki anyway, since the one he needs is the Izayoi. He could care less which side Tsubaki is, though her misery should be fun to see. Interesting theory. I really want to see it happens, just to see how Litchi will react. Bang will likely forgive her. Tao is too dumb to realize that she betrayed her. Tager will understand. Linhua is outside the information loop to even know where Litchi goes. Arakune, Kokonoe and Carl are not the type to forgive. I would love to see their reactions. But in the end, I think Litchi will be the one that cannot forgive herself the most.

I always though it's the point. As I said before, it's a lose-lose situation for Tsubaki. If she betrays NOL, she loses her loving family. If she lets Noel/Jin betray NOL, she loses them. The only happy ending for her would be for Noel/Jin to re-join NOL. From the very beginning, she expects to either convince them or beat them bad enough to drag them back (although I thought she doesn't even have the heart to fight them with full power). One thing to notice is that she never even asks them why Noel/Jin behaved the way they did. Because it doesn't matter anyway. She cannot afford them not to return to NOL. I'm guessing she doesn't want to hear anyway. If she knows that they have good reasons to leave, the more difficult it would be for her. Tsubaki was not even expecting to be able to convince them without fights so she got Izayoi. She was hoping that her sight would be enough sacrifice to get her happiness back. She was stressed out and cannot think straight, such that Hazama can easily misled her about Noel. Her canon ending is that she never managed to get Noel/Jin back, and she's getting blind. That's like multiple "lights" of her life gone one by one and that she lost her sight means that it's "time out" for her to even retry. I imagine the slight hope offered by Saya was like the 2nd coming of Jesus for her. In BB, people who want everything tend to lose everything unfortunately. Jin is a good example. Personal interpretation btw . I think the happiest ending for both would be for Carl to let Ada rest in peace. It was said that Carl's hatred is driving Nirvana and at the same time hurting her. There will be no happy ending for Ada as long as she's still in Nirvana.

Maybe Terumi wants to die with a bang? Being a death seeker doesn't mean you have to be all gloom and doom and you cannot have fun doing it. Maybe he wants to have the whole world accompany him? You cannot take characters at face value. Action speaks louder than words. At least using this principle, I've been pleasantly surprised how spot on my interpretation of CT's Litchi (and Jin) in CS. To me, Litchi is someone who has good intention, tries hard to do good, but for everything Arakune related she always slips off her morality standard spectacularly. She is so obsessive, it is quite creepy. To elaborate, Litchi's quest was to catch and stop Arakune and possibly "relieve" him from misery. In CT, assuming all path happened at some point, she had more than enough opportunities to do so. Arakune was defeated at multiple points -> Litchi protected him -> Litchi promised to keep him in tight leash -> Arakune still free, someone obviously not living up her promise -> Arakune eats people. Rinse and repeat. I think it's pretty obvious that there's sth off with her. For Arakune, well, people say that the opposite of love is not hate, but indifference. The extent he went to get Kokonoe's acknowledgment - it's like sb who wants attention. It's pure speculation, of course .

I think people who hate Litchi now are the ones who liked her because they thought she was one of the rare morally white characters in the game. They just feel betrayed. Or the people that thought her decision in CS is out of their personal interpretation of her character from CT. I wonder why people thought Litchi was such a virtuous person anyway. On the other hand, since CT I sometimes feel that I'm the only one that thinks that Arakune likes is Kokonoe? She's the only one that he remembers. Another thing is Terumi's motive. He looks like a death seeker to me from the scene of his defeat by Ragna in true end. Besides, isn't a world of death bad for him, since he's already a ghost. In a world where the dead is dead, he will die for real, no?

^^ Agreed. Why should she listen to Arakune anyway? I'm always under impression that whatever Litchi does, she does it for herself and not for him. She WANTS to save Arakune, who cares if he doesn't want to be saved. The fact that Arakune still can manage to be sane for several minutes was enough to rekindle the hope in her. It's like you have terminally ill love who shows hope that he might be savable even with a minuscule chance, even if it means prolonging/adding his suffering. Not because he wants it (Arakune already asked to be killed), but because you cannot bear to part. Many people cannot turn off the life support of their beloved because there "might" be improvement in medics in the future to save their beloved. It's the way Litchi is.

Oh my god, it's like you are reading my mind . I have to add though, that Tsubaki has a loving family unlike Jin. For her, it's like betraying her love or betraying her family. The only happy ending for her would be that Jin returns to NOL. Which was the basis of most of her action in CS. And let's face it, Jin is a pushover. He always does what Tsubaki wants. She wanted him to be her "brother", he did and boy, he's a much better "brother" to Tsubaki than to Saya. She liked him to open up and be more sociable, he did in the academy and got stressed out. She liked justice and hamminess, he did (Hakumen is like how Jin will be if influenced heavily by Tsubaki). In short, Jin is easier to convince than her family. Add in the "loyalty to NOL" spirit that she was raised and educated in. Education is one way to brainwash sb, especially children. Besides, being jealous is very human. People say that the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. Why is it that everyone else are allowed but she are not allowed to be jealous? She did what good person does and bottled it up. Even if she snapped, it's still ok. People who are close do fight once in a while. In fact, just last month I had my little sister picked a fight at me because she thought our parents loved me more than her. The fight didn't even last 20 minutes. Just a short burst of rage and hormones, etc etc. I'm guessing the same with Tsubaki. (though the fighting game nature makes the fight more physical instead of verbal) In the end, normal Tsubaki always pulls her punches and loses. Even when she wins, she never has the heart to kill Noel, heck, she doesn't even have the heart to drag Noel back to NOL against Noel's wishes. I think as long as Tsubaki doesn't crosses the line, she's still redeemable. Not commendable, but understandable. Another interesting point is the "light" that Izayoi takes. We know that it's not just eyesight. In the arcade, she said that as long as the "light" in her heart will never fade, she's ok being blind. It seems that the black Tsubaki lost this so called "light", which is why she was so vulnerable to mind control. I wonder what is this, her love? Her conviction that she's doing the right thing? Nothing fits perfectly.

^^ According to BBCM, Bang fell in love at the first sight when he saw her on the streets.

I mentioned in my summary that I didn't fully understand the story. I'm still waiting for sb with better Japanese to clarify/oppose my understanding. But if Rachel didn't bite him, there's no reason for his red eye to be the side effect from being turned a vampire. That leaves only one possible explanation, that the eye color is the side effect from the azure.

I'm on vacation so I don't have the book with me but about Jin and Ragna: Most of the time in the material collection, Jin is called Ragna's "Jitsu no otouto", or "real little brother" as if to emphasize that they are blood siblings. If I remember correctly, Saya does not get introduced as "real little sister" but only "little sister". Whether it is a foreshadowing, or if it is just the writing style, we don't know yet. As for Ragna's hair and eye color. His eye color is natural jade (it's mentioned in Rachel's story). The red part is most likely from the azure, since Rachel didn't bit him in the story, but his eye turned red anyway. As for Litchi, here are the snippets from Litchi's story from what I remember: - She was hired by Kokonoe for her eastern medical knowledge. On her first day, she went to Kokonoe's lab/office but couldn't find her. Instead she met with the human Arakune. He introduced himself as Kokonoe's disciple. He was hired for his alchemy knowledge. He worked mostly in the lab next to Kokonoe's lab. Both hit it off really well. Litchi was really fond of him. She thought he was smart and kind. I am not sure how far their relationship went around this time. - Kokonoe and Arakune fought quite a lot due Kokonoe not liking Arakune's obsession with studying boundary (I don't quite remember). Usually Tager stopped the fight, but one day Tager was on mission. Litchi tried to stop the fight, but Arakune yelled at her instead. He seemed to be really upset that she didn't help his side and said that she didn't understand him. I think their relationship became cold afterwards, I think they stopped talking. It was at least a month or possibly months after, Litchi realized that she had not seen him for days and thought it was weird a workaholic like him didn't come to the lab for days. She went to his home and found the blob. That's from Litchi's story. I assume Litchi used to like him romantically but not anymore. I thought that if one quarrel was enough for them to stop speaking, it must not have been a deep relationship. I am not sure if Arakune is even romantically interested in her. I don't understand Arakune's story. His story is like a diary, and I'm not even sure if he's writing about Litchi, Kokonoe, or both.

The discussion you are addressing is from 1 month ago before CS was released. I think the topic is stale already. Sorry to bump this topic, but can we talk about the Litchi-Arakune relationship I pointed out a few pages before? The question is were they in relationship or not before? And I'm asking in the context of the information provided in their short stories in the material collection (just making sure that spoilers from CS don't spill here).

A question to anyone with good Japanese. How was Litchi's relationship with Arakune when he was human? When I looked at her short story in the material book, it seems that there was no romance between the two. Litchi's story seems to say that they were getting close, but after that one incident where Arakune just screamed at her, they stopped talking for months, until he turned into a blob. My impression is that romance never managed to blossom between the two. Does Arakune's short story say anything about their relationship? I totally don't understand his story, too confusing. Is his story all about Kokonoe?

True ending in youtube, but not complete. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chV3ezFRr8U Just follow the same user for part 2 to 4

By Rachel story, I was actually refer to Rachel's short story in the book, not Rachel's story in the game. The point that I'm not sure about is around here: When Ragna's situation was at its worst, Rachel said sth like "I don't mind biting you" and then she blushed. And there was silence. The question is what happened during that silence. Did she bite him or not? But at any rate, I now believe that Rachel didn't bite Ragna once every loop, but only once in one of the earlier loop. As for the loop. In the CS storyline, there's no loop, but I suspect that Terumi keeps Ragna alive just in case he needs the reset button. Nu can be remade. The satellite can be re-charged. I think every element required to reset the time is still there so another loop in the future is possible.

Well, there are 2 possible theories for the discrepancy. One, he might tutor Kokonoe about alchemy while he interned under her. Looking at Litchi's story, it seems that Kokonoe generally hired people whose expertise was different than her. Arakune for alchemy, Litchi for eastern medicine. Two, it's a typo/error. Anyway. How old is Kokonoe approximately? I always thought that she's way older than she looks.

I think you are mistaken. Arakune is Kokonoe's student if you look at Litchi's short story (he introduced himself as Kokonoe's disciple)

No, I'm talking about Yayoi marrying Yayoi. Well, maybe the Yayoi family has more members than I thought.

Oh wow, as if we don't have enough incest in the game . Is anyone planning to translate Rachel's short story? I may be able to do Tao's. It's the easiest of the stories.

I was under impression that she bit him once per loop which was why I doubted myself. Oh well, I guess that's my mistake. Doesn't this mean than the current loop Ragna is not half-vampire? The fact that Black Beast has to die first for Ragna to be reborn is odd, no? I mean Hakumen doesn't need to die for Jin to be reborn. This is the one factor that made me think that Ragna is artificial human from Black Beast DNA. But anyway, it's just speculation. As for Hakumen, why is it only Jin can become Hakumen?

I don't know that far. The book doesn't explain that far. Maybe we'll know in CS. Since seithr is toxic, maybe that's the reason why Saya is sickly. It's a question though why small kids in orphanage were tested for armagus compatibility. Jin mentioned before to Ragna that "if I remember, you have no talent with armagus" or sth like that, which implies that the siblings were tested or maybe even trained with armagus. The orphanage is really fishy to me right now. I honestly wouldn't take what Rachel says as the truth. She loves withholding info. And Ragna was like possessed during the time, so he might not remember. Rachel drew magic circle at the beginning. The magic circle glowed in blue and then consumed Ragna or sth. But Ragna's condition actually worsened after that. And then a few hours later, Ragna woke up by himself (only the red eye open, I think), dragged himself using his left hand to some black boulder, touched it, and some kind of seal crumbled. And then Ragna was consumed by darkness. Rachel left without watching more. I have no idea when Ragna got his arm back with my poor understanding. But he doesn't seem to have it back by the time he dragged himself to the boulder. In Hakumen story, considering that it's from POV of Ragna right when Hakumen killed him, he's pretty sane before his death, but it's as if he was on sedative. Other confusing things I found in the notes: - Rachel: it's said that she bit Ragna only once, during one of the earliest loop (?). Is this right? If I'm not mistaken, throughout Rachel's story, she didn't bit Ragna, did she? - Rachel: it's said that the reason she turned Jin into Hakumen is that if otherwise, Ragna could not be re-born . I don't fully understand the logic: is Jin crucial or does she just need sb to use Susano and the sword? I really need some clarification here. - Litchi: it's said that her meeting her panda is a mystery. Where is it said again that Laochu is from the boundary? - Black Beast DNA: it's said that there are artificial humans made from the DNA. Is this ever mentioned in the game? I am starting to suspect that the siblings are the artificial humans mentioned here, or maybe Saya clone series. Other snippets that I found: - Tao needs 15 hours of sleep a day. Kaka kitties are all around the same level of intelligence of Tao - aka. forgetting things after 3 steps. - Kokonoe rarely sleeps, so she constantly eats special candies to get energy. - Among the Saya clones that Ragna destroyed, only Nu and 2 others managed to be human. The rest didn't even look human. (No wonder Ragna was repulsed with NOL) - Ragna automatically absorbs life force of humans around him, which is why he avoids contact with people (he has no hope in getting "normal" relationship, poor guy) - Tager has a self-destruct function courtesy of Kokonoe. Of course Tager doesn't know this himself. Tager is structured like Nirvana so whenever they meet, they resonate. Is this "resonance" ever described in the game? Sorry for all the questions. I'm hoping that sb with good grasp Japanese can shed a light since knowing sth wrong is worse than not knowing.

Oh, suddenly everything becomes clear . Thanks! Nihonomaru forum has it. Relius disappeared before Nirvana was done. As for Ada, the only thing that Carl saw was when she was "absorbed" into Nirvana. It's not clear how gruesome it was. On the one side, Relius is obsessed with making the perfect doll. On other note, the book says that Tager's mechanic is similar to Nirvana. So it's not clear too if Relius "killed" Ada or if he merely tried to revive her. Hakumen and Jin: yep, you're right. They met and talked in CS. Now I'm even more confused. Retcon? Or maybe I'm just totally mis-translating the paragraph. The book does say "Because Hakumen and Jin are the same, they cannot exist in the same space." Maybe they can meet because Hakumen is technically 80% still in boundary?