zreb

They wouldn't, but you'd be able to assign an only moderately mundane value to corner carry that people could look at and be like "this number is higher for this combo" and then have an explanation for when it's contested and not just "some number™." Thinking on it more, it seems not that different than listing the actual meter value for a combo (e.g. where one magatama is 1250, but most players think in terms of 'stars') but it is a matter of preference. Approximating with that number might be easier/more precise than trying to figure out if something is 3.3 hops or like 3.6 hops is all I'm saying.

I've seen it posted (somewhere) in the past measured by the approx. number of hops it would take to move haku to that position from his starting point, since most players at least have a general idea of how far his hop goes. If you did take that path, there's a value in the system data for how far his hop distance actually is (listed as 327). I can get that link to work on jin off hop hotaru, but TK hotaru is very difficult. I'd assume it still works as long as you can get the execution down to get the j.C and gurren to link, but I feel like if the gurren hits too low because of TK taking longer to recover from, then it may not work.

I'm not sure if it's the same @ Carl vs. Arakune. I know for a fact that 5d -> 6a -> 5a does not work on Arakune--the 5a always seems to whiff. I can't test at this immediate moment, but I believe it's more possible that it does work on Carl.

If you watch him in the matches, you'll find he catches late techs with 2b several times and confirming it into an extra 2k damage. Using 2b in this way also stops rolling and forces them to tech neutral, but recovers fast enough to leave you time for some good oki options. As far as I understand it, 3c is just the best option for total damage.

Tenchi's tag did change once during the time I spent posting stuff. Someone else's may have too. Kakyuu's? Either way, it's apparently possible. I tried to have a friend read that name earlier, but he couldn't decipher it between lack of experience and low image quality.

For whatever reason, my automatic response was Lambda's Legacy Edge, which is the one that shoots lots of swords. Yukikaze does not work on that and Lambda recovers in more than enough time to leap away. Calamity Edge, however, would work but it's not really a "projectile" in nature, it just has its property. Since it's in range, a normal D would leave you in a better position to deal real damage momentum and meter wise. For Lambda in specific, it could theoretically work on the 2nd hit of her normals (5dd, 6dd etc) or air swords, but achieving that kind of read on a good player is basically what Indigo said: rucky. This depends on what exactly we're talking about with DD projectiles, and it really boils down to what the frame data looks like. It lists Yukikaze (attack)'s startup as 56 frames, with Lambda's Legacy Edge as 57 total frames recovery. In training mode, however, Lambda has time to move away. I presume it has to do with Haku being frozen during superflash when he catches, but because it's a projectile, Lambda is not. However, someone else may have to present a more absolute explanation as I don't understand it fully... (I actually believe this topic has come up before, but I'm awful and have forgotten the details.) It's fine if you can get that damage, but I feel you're overestimating what all it reliably works on and also underestimating just how situational it really is (e.g., it works on Noel's reversal, but throwing out Noel's reversal at neutral is a hilariously bad idea.)

double posting forever On Hakumen's frame data, under "Yukikaze (catch)", there is a note saying "1-27F after super flash catch all blockable moves." This seems to be leftover from CS1, as of course Yukikaze no longer does superflash without a successful catch.

It's only practical if you're that desperate for approach, and even then it's still not very good, since a Lambda (for instance) could easily just super jump and air dash away from you while you're whiffing the cut. Then you're just 4 stars out, and their meter isn't worth as much to them as your meter is to you.

You probably can't realistically cut Lambda's projectile super by simply reacting to seeing it. It's 16+10 frames startup, and you don't have any C's that move fast enough to compensate for human reaction time (which is somewhere around 16 frames, actually.) If 3c actually hit it then it's a big "maybe," but I'm skeptical that the hitboxes would actually work out. I also feel you'd really have to be expecting it to react that quickly. Non-super Ds (2d, 6d, or j.D if you were in the air; 5d is not frame 1) are realistic if you're at neutral, but you have to chain them together to avoid the entire super. What mac said @ astrals. Only ones like Valk's that are DPs are legitimately useful, but obviously it's not a help at all to Hakumen that he cannot combo into his. Regardless, they are not that useful in general and most people playing seriously will not go out of their way to pull them unless they just happen to get a combo starter when they have enough meter etc.

Color calls seem to have a lot to do with personal experience or interaction with players who use said color. I associate red Haku with Tenchi just because I managed the video thread and saw lots of matches where he always used it. There's no hard and fast rule or anything. It feels like a matter of "fame" to me.

Hopefully they've got some other change planned for 6B if they're making it not take primers. It's already -frames, so it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to have a non-comboable overhead that is -frames and does not break primers. I've seen 6d Mugen Zantetsu Shippu, but not 6C.

Mugen is pretty susceptible to getting burst out of and the combos for it are significantly less burst-safe than the rest of Haku's combos. If they burst out of your combo, more than likely you aren't going to be be getting any damage off it between its rapid meter drain and it being fairly easy to play run-away while Haku has it up. It can be nifty when the stars align (hyuk hyuk) and you can combo into it or get oki in the corner and they have no bursts, but it's not worth going out of your way over in higher level play.

Counters are pretty high risk meh reward right now in terms of damage. His damage is also low ish in CS2 even though it soars in the corner. He also lacks reliable, generally safe-ish AAs. 2C has a good hitbox, but in many situations you have to really know they're going to do approach in a way that it will catch before committing to it due to its lackluster speed. If you haven't tried 5A for AAing yet, it'd be good to start because it's one of his better ones. Beyond those, 5D and 6D (and theoretically j.D, but it's bad so) will stop jump ins, but you have to be fairly certain that they're going to hit a button and not bait it. Hotaru is your safest bet for AA, though it's obviously expensive if they block it. If you haven't been having much luck with parries, 5D is significantly easier to use than the others. It's active 16 frames instead of the others' 7-9. Be cautious since it doesn't doesn't activate until frame 5 and deosn't catch lows though (and being predictable is always a bad idea.) You have to be careful when using 4C. If you're using it at a range that you're being hit out of, then more than likely you are not using it at its maximum range. Anything closer than that gets disproportionately more dangerous, generally speaking. Most characters cannot get as high damage as Hakumen in the corner for how cheap it is. Haku also gets pretty good damage in the corner off of starters that simply aren't his best. Outside of the corner, yes, you generally want to be sparing on meter spending. You're thinking more about corner push there than damage. He's low tier this time for a reason! If you genuinely like him, I'd encourage you to stick with him. It's looking like he's going to get significant buffs in the next version. Also, if you're ever lost about what to do or about a matchup in particular, the video thread is your friend.

The note said followups did less damage in regards to Shippu. I assumed that meant anything that came after it (but when does that ever happen...?) Could be wrong though? :I I already am not a fan of how 4C feels, so it being potentially even slower is very blah. Other than that I like the changes so far! I like the idea of throws having more presence midscreen with comboability.

Curious about this note from the new loktest thread: It's worded (probably translated) strangely, but I'm wondering if it means you can link j.B into j.2a without jump cancelling now? Or actually, I guess it could easily mean late gatling too... Being noted right after a comment on untech time threw me off, though.

http://www.dustloop.com/guides/bbcs2/systemGuide/systemData.html Hakumen's HP in the first table is listed as 1200 here! Additionally, the note about combo rating no longer has a link "[here]"... I can only assume there was one before.

Hakumen's mixup is not very good compared to a more traditional character like Ragna or Makoto. You may or may not get more mileage off strike/throw than high/low type mixup since Hakumen's overheads are so costly (though they are very much worth it if you can land a hit with them!) View this post for some basic ideas. Note that anything involving Kishuu (Hakumen's command dash) tends to be even more effective now because it is significantly faster than the time of the writing of that post. What you can do midscreen with Hotaru depends on your height and if it's a counterhit or not. Hotaru -> IAD j.2A -> j.C (-> 5C -> 3C if in corner) is one that will work for all TK or hop hotarus. If you nailed a Fatal with it, use: Hotaru -> IAD j.2C -> 2C -> j.2A -> AD j.2A -> j.C This one requires stricter timing. If you did a hotaru high enough off the ground, you can just do an air dash instead of IAD into j.2C, 2c, etc. This theoretically works without counterhit, but the spacing is very sensitive and difficult to work with without it being combo'd into. Anti-airing with 2C will net you about 2000 damage meterless. Pretty much all of Hakumen's parries lead to meterless damage (except j.D). 3c counterhit (or if they failed to emergency tech for non counterhit) -> 2b -> Gurren -> etc. is a 1 star combo that works midscreen. Throws can be combo'd meterless in the corner. Check out this thread for a plethora of (mostly) optimal CS2 combos. Yukikaze will counter all attacks (high, low, mid, and projectiles) from frames 1 to 27. It does not stop unblockables (such as Tsubaki's 22D) and it does not stop throws. If it counters a projectile, the opponent will be able to avoid it. oh no slow typan games

That has little bearing on the console release, I'd presume, which is what most of our userbase plays on. They've announced no plans.

I feel like it's good to be able to get commanding damage if you need/want it, but the ever-looming issue of the meter being better spent elsewhere is always present. Regardless, I was interested by the video plan to play with these a little!

5c gurren xN in the corner is kind of inefficient as hell, but it is powerful for certain things like wasting Kune's curse meter if you happen to catch him in the corner. I'm honestly not too surprised they'd be trying to get rid of it. I'll freak more about Gurren repeats if it stays and his game isn't significantly improved otherwise by the time release rolls around, cause it's not like double gurrens were common in CS1 if you see what I'm getting at there.

i'd assume that's about gurren 5c looping in the corner, but the implications for midscreen combos is pretty upsetting. I wonder if the new renka will offset it at all--but then it has repeat proration too, so the options are pretty limited.

It's obviously not huge, but in serious play the little things add up. Making just a little bit of extra meter in a few spots can turn into a full magatama that could really save you later. Similar story with corner push.

The 5a 6a 5a nerf isn't just about damage. 5a 5b has less corner push and (probably) less meter gain as well for combos where it doesn't fall on the cooldown period, both of which are less minuscule than it dealing than 7 less damage. 6a AA may or may not actually be good depending on when it gets that head invuln and for how long. Tager's 2C has head invuln but that doesn't make it reliable because it starts up so late and only has 3 frames. Many people are probably hearing "6a AA" and naturally going "CT CT CT." As far as comboability, I am frankly not surprised at it not being comboable. My assumption is that using 6A will naturally be far lower risk than using 6D/j.D or 5a, so the reward is lower. Supposedly it has corner bound in the loktest right now, but that seems rather situational to me outside of combos. Charged 4c seems fully questionable outside combos, as ryoko pointed out. They gave a few characters charges like that (and Tager's is the only one that seemed to make sense at all), so it definitely seems like an experimental thing for now.

It's fully understandable for dashing to be a barrier on xbox dpad. For ↓D and →D, you can do basically standard combos for it while skipping the air dash between the two ↓As and go straight to C. It's not optimal and has way less carry, but there's nothing stopping you really. For Renka, you are supposed to cancel it with something before the 2nd hit because the 2nd hit has bad combo proration. Gurren in most cases midscreen, Kishuu in the corner for the BNB there. For →D: →D ⇒ walk a little ⇒ forward jump ⇒ falling ↓C ⇒ Either ↓C or C ⇒ whatever. Gurren into more stuff for C, standard air finisher for ↓C. There isn't a whole lot of room for variation in combos without dustloop. It is very much a staple for Hakumen's combos. If you want to cut those things from gameplay so that you can actually play the game it's fine, but you aren't going to get anything that really compares in most cases. If dashing and timing feels too difficult, I'd recommend you grind those things in training mode until it feels more intuitive. If the 360 pad just feels too bad, you might want to try the stick instead. I knew people who played on the analog stick--though I never personally was any good at it. Practice practice practice! You'll get better with time.

I'm not going to be able to attend any meetups for a while between work and some personal stuff I have going on right now. I still want to try to attend any events like UCC and what not, but everything's just kind of uncertain at the moment. I'll try to make it out to stuff if it's within my power, but no promises. :\