BatousaiJ

I'll compile a list of BnB combos from charges ranging from 1-3 that put an balanced emphasis between damage, meter gain and positional advantage. Probably take the approach of one variation for mid-screen and one for corner. The only problem being which starters should I cover? Standard 2A/5B starter stuff? CH 5C? 236D, 22D, there are so many ways one could start a combo that if I wanted to cover all of them, it would take a long time- longer then we'd want for a beginner friendly tutorial video anyhow. What starters do you think I should cover?

The D charge moves are situational uses in that when you plan on charging for a moment, it's better to use 5D without question, if you plan on charging for more than a second than 2D gains value(after strong knockaway with rc or just plain against Tager). j.D slows down after the initial 1 charge or so in the air as well. It's true that you can combo off of 236C but not the other variations(minus D, ofcourse). You can follow up 22D with 236C only on wonky OTG hitbox characters like Rachel outside of corners. The biggest note and perhaps misconception, 22B doesn't have the same projectile invinc as it used to. I can't sit there charging 22B with lambchops shooting swords at me and armor it. Can't armor noel's drive moves either. What they mean by project piercing is that it can deflect and negate certain projectile coming at you with the attack's hit box it self. Tested against Rachel when she's throwing her cat at you, if you 22B and the cat and the attacking hit box connect, the cat is deflected and lands away from you. So more or less, your 22B attacking hit box is like Hakumen's sword. Pretty useless compared to super armor projectile invinc it once had. 214X invinc frames are all different as well in their duration. Two share the same time where it begins but not when it ends.

Ya, go for it Airk. I think you've got a good attention to detail and you know very well what she's like in CS 2 so make some changes and post up what you can. I'll chime in and make corrections if necessary afterwards. As for the video itself, we should probably have a voice narration to match what's being shown on the video. I vote for pk to do the voice because no one is more lesbians for Tsubaki than she is.

Good point, given we don't say newly added and etc on the guide we don't have to make any references to the original guide and make it a standalone. The reason why I pointed out as "new" stuff is because since a lot of the stuff in the guide is still valid, we can just add and remove stuff from there and save ourselves some work. I think the best way to go about it simple by going copy - paste on the original guide and just edit it to fit CS 2. The combos, oki and tips and tricks can come later.

Ya, making note of attacks that are newly + on block like 2A, 6B and 22C is important along with the change to 5D, j.D and 2D. We should also mention the ones that lost frame advantage but gained other properties like 214D(not + on block but sexy invinc frames) and etc. Just take the most important changes in the frame data and add/remove it to what's in the original guide and we should be set. Also need to make some changes to gatling with things like 2BB not gatling into 6A and the incredible usefulness of 5C© > 6B and etc in block strings. After that the most apparently thing to note is that 22D no longer wall bounces without being near the corner, 236236C has good start up invic now and that should basically covers all the simple character fundemental things. Tsubaki's basic strength and weaknesses remain about the same but her glaring original weakness of incredibly crap damage without charge is no longer valid. Will probably have to organize all of this info in a presentable manner but it shouldn't take too long. Let me know if you think I missed anything important that's very fundamental to her playstyle.

I'll do a quick write up of some basic stuff and things I think everyone should know while playing Tsubaki soon and post it here. We can discuss things about it and take things from it that can go on the official tutorial. I'll have to organize my combo word pad thing that I have as well and start adding some more combos to the combos thread and here as well. A bit on the late side to start that stuff now though so I'll get to it when I've got some time later, it'd be nice if someone took the time and did all the changes including frame data first of all though.

Some spiffy stuff in the video. Mostly impractical as you say but I think some of those RC application can be pretty useful for positional advantage. Also nice to see something done with 6CC fatal counter but I think at this point 5C -> 5D/2D charge cancel is still out best overall counter choice starter. As for j.236D as a starter for the stagger, probably a bad idea in a real fight. In fact using j.236X outside of combo is pretty bad now unless you have charge to cancel out by following up with j.214D. The reason why I opt not to do 5 charge combos(outside of mugen) generally is because most of the time the amount of damage you gain from 4 -> 5 is rather low considering the extra charge necessity. Light weight~

Thanks, Kiba. The next video I want to make is a community project where I have various Tsubaki players to chime in and do some combo works so I can combine them into one video and give everyone credit at the end of the video. You should participate if I get that rolling after CS II comes out.

The 5C CH > 5D charge cancel >5B/5C is very cool. Adds a few more layers to what you can do with 5C which is our best CH starter to start with already. I've worked around with the above for some spiffy mid screen combos as well as corner all resulting in over 5k damage without meter. Pretty cool stuff.

Been screwing around with some CH combos and working out some fancy 6C FC combos in the corner. There's one using j.214D > j.D falling > dash j.C > 5B > 2CC > etc. You can infact still do j.D falling shenanigans but its use has become quite limited due to j.214X without RC pushing back a significant amount. Not really necessary or beneficial in any real significant way but it's a bit of eye candy. Tsubaki's FC is still less useful than 5C CH in basically all scenarios though and given how slow the start up on 6C is to begin with, so bleh. General option of CH hits- 5B > 6CC (faster, longer ranged) 5C > 6CC (slower, shorter but a good deal more powerful) Also looked at the merits of going 5B > 3CC > RC > IAD combo instead of 5B > 6C but it turns out like this Midscreen 1 Charge 5B CH > 6C > 214D > 22C > IAD j.CC > 5B > 2CC > 236 B > 214B > 22B [3522 damage] 5C CH > 6C > 214D > 22C > IAD j.CC > 5B > 2CC > 236 B > 214B > 22B [4110 damage] Midscreen 50 heat 5B CH > 3CC > RC > 22C > IAD j.CC > 5B > 2CC > 236 B > 214B > 22B [3205 damage] Another good thing about 5B/5C > 6C > 214D option is that it allows you the option to cross the opponent over by dashing after 214D before you go for 2CC. Other wise if you're in the corner it's generally better to go for j.214D to setup your combo for maximum efficiency. Also, I've been messing around with corner pressure and forward roll tech trap pick up meaning after you knock down someone in the corner and they try to get out. Most attacks will be able to pick up your opponent during forward rolls so you have to make them respect the fact that they're in the corner and whenever they try to roll out, they're getting hit with a pick up combo. For example, if you pick them up with 5C as they're rolling you can simply do Corner, no charge, no meter 5C > 2CC > IAD j.CC > 2CC > 22C> 5C > 2C > 236B > 214B > 22B [3491 damage] Same combo works with our best overall poke 5B as well as 2A so make your opponent respect your corner options. Also, I've figured out what seems to be a true unblockable setup for Tsubaki... but I'll save that for the next video some time in the future since I'll be needing fancy stuff for it.

I like that Jin's strategy against Carl. Seems like the patient, smart way to approach the match-up.

Non counter 236D hit follow up has always been a little shaky. On certain characters that have "thin" crumple hit boxes like noel, it was easiest to follow up with 5BB > 22D for continued combo in CS 1 which will more or less always work. Dash in 5a/2a works as well but that takes a bit more timing than just spamming on that 5BB after 236D. Remember that 5BB should hit if you go directly into 5BB after the 236D hit. If you delay it, you might not hit with both hits. In CS 2 I've found 236D > 5BB > 623C > j.214A to work basically on everyone and you can do some good damage off of that. If you get greedy and go for 5BB > 5CC often times 623C just won't connect and you'll lose the rest of your combo. Just program yourself to recognize CH 236D as CH 236D > 6CC combo variation can do a great deal of damage and you can even get a moment of charge before you begin your onslaught.

It's like traffic. It's always there but you don't always get caught up in it. But when you do get caught up in traffic, it's pretty natural to complain nonchalantly about it. Happens. No big whoop.

Oh hey, I didn't know about feet vulnerability on Carl's 236B. That's very helpful... more reason to mash that 2A when you've got that Carl on the corner. As for the saltiness, don't get me wrong- while I dislike Carl greatly, I can very much appreciate good play and skill that's shown by exceptional players.

Hate... carl... so... muchhhhhhhhhhhhhh. So much that it hurts. That burst into anima grab thing is brilliant though. You don't take any burst blow back proration and given you burst during a move with a lot of recovery time, it's basically a guaranteed counter grab.

Ya, I'm not switching characters already just because it's hard. Definitely not how I do things. I've been looking around that homing cancel website pretty good info there. I've bookmarked a basic combo video and screwed around a bit. I'm still not sure if I'm willing to spend the time to get good at this game with all these games I want to play out and coming out very soon but we'll see.

Man, this game is weird as hell to me. I like Zenia out of all the characters and would like to main her but given I've never played a AH game in the past I feel like I'm making a poor choice as her learning curve seems to be so far away I don't even know where to start. Not entirely sure if I'll be able to get into this game very much but I'm not too opposed to give it the old college try....

A damage edge for 3-5 charges mostly but then again, we're spending 100 heat at that point instead of 50 so it'd better do more damage. Like I've shown in the video, 4-5 charge mugen 100 heat combos are still the way to get the most damage out of Tsubaki. The problem is while we'll most likely have access to much more charge stock then before, having 100 heat saved up against a decent opponent is going to a tough sell.

About the same kind of results. We all know that 22D prorates fairly well on naked hit but given if you want to spend 2 charges while getting benefit of naked 22D hit, you have to activate mugen when you've only got 1 charge left. For example... Corner 22D > 6C > Mugen > 623D > j.214D > 214D > 2CC > IAD > j.CC > 5B > 2CC > 22C > 5C > 2C > 236B > 214B > 22B [5059 damage 43 ish meter gain] 22D > 6CC > j.214D > 5CC > 2CC > IAD > j.CC > 5B > 2CC > 22C > 5C > 2C > 236B > 214B > 22B > 236236C [5559 damage 47 meter gain] 500 Flat less damage is a lot and while the DD does push you back, you can get in their face before they tech just by dashing forward at that point so that's not really much of a factor. Without the super it's at around 4800 damage as well and that's with the best ender with positional advantage to boot which gives you time to get 1 charge or so while you wait for them to tech. Now that I've more or less got the timing for IAD(around 80-90% now) shenanigans that 2nd combo I've listed there is my favorite option in that scenario. Tsubaki's damage outside of D move continuation has improved so much the strict damage beneficial of using mugen has decreased. Most likely I'll personally be using mugen for style points and if I'm feeling frisky and going on a mix up rampage. Now that you can cancel into D moves on block, hit or whiff, you can go off like a mad man on a mission when you've got mugen activated. A fun fact that a lot of people don't seem to know is that did you know that j.236D > j.214D on multi-hit takes away a primer all while locking them up in the same place for a second or so leaving you to continue to break their primers or go for sneaky unblockable or ambigious IAD cross-up sets? Setting the cpu to block everything and seeing what kind of mix up you can do with 5 charge mugen is actually pretty fun.

Alright, I've been tinkering with some mugen combos of various levels and comparing the damage/positional advantage you get from just doing standard combos with the corresponding charge levels and ending it with a 236236C is often times better given the damage is very similar but at least you get more heat gain activating the DD at the end of the combo instead of the middle gimping meter gain for a time significantly. I feel like the way Tsubaki's damage has changed along with how all high damage combos gravitate towards what you can do in the corner, a situation where you can use mugen efficiently over the alternatives are few and far between. Here's a good example. A corner two charge combo 5BB > 5CC > Mugen > 623D > j.214D > 236D > 214D > 22[D] > 5C > 2CC > 22C > 5C > 2C > 236B > 214B > 22B [4378 damage] 5BB > 5CC > 22D > 6CC > j.214D > 5CC > 2CC > 22C > 5CC > 2C > 236B > 214B > 22B > 236236C [4812 damage] Same charge use and meter use but more damage and meter gain off the 2nd much shorter combo. There are a ton of these situations where it's just better not to use mugen at all and the only times I've seen this to be the contrary is during some mid-screen situations(not that big of a difference either) and 5 charge stock moments where you'll get enough meter to use 236236D at the end which is generally unrealistic. Not to say that mugen is useless but I think it's use will be limited mostly to burst baiting and style points.

I don't think it's really a matter of risk vs award when you're fighting a Valk in wolf form. No human being can guard a full valk wolf mix-up on reaction so you have really no choice but to either play that guessing game and hope you're right or just hit spam hit him out of whatever he's doing and the latter works a little too well IMO. While I completely agree with the balance of decreasing his overall damage output I feel like they nerfed his human form a little too much making you rely on your wolf form way too much. I'll still sub him in CS II as I did before but I'm not gonna like being forced to hang around in wolf form majority of the time because I'm a big fan of that whole "block" concept.

Valk's pressure game when he's in human form got rocked pretty hard. 236C not an overhead, 236A not + on block, 2C head invinc lose, hit stun change to j.214B and many more really make his human form feel gimp. His mix-up in wolf form is still pretty godly but because of the transition from human -> wolf is slow as hell now it's mostly just better to stay in one of the other during block strings. The whole "can't block" while in wolf form really puts a damper on things though... it'd be nice if they let you barrier guard like bang can in FRKZ but I doubt that'll ever happen.

I do some cool stuff here and there and beat most people I face online(lolnetplay) and think to myself, "Man! I'm pretty good!" Then I save some replays then watch them later and learn that I'm still in fact quite terrible. Funny how that works.

It's fun to theorycraft and speculate but given I haven't played CS II against single a live opponent yet, it'd be foolish for me to even try to weigh in where she might be on the tier list. The only thing that's universally clear is that she's improved a good deal from her non-viable CS 1 counterpart and that's plenty enough for me. Also commenting on some videos I've seen of late, Noel and Hazama look scary as hell but I'm not getting the same "what the hell can I do to win" off the Jin players I watch even though I know he's very strong. Not sure if it's because I've found most Jins pretty easy to handle or whatever previously but he doesn't seem all that hard to fight against but that one guy that snipes that arrow super of his like a damn assassin, jesus. A quick mental note of characters as personal impression: Litchi - Still very strong and daisharin corner shenanigans is still godlike but seems more manageable midscreen. Hakumen- Overall damage reduction and j.D nerf has me breathing easier. Tager - Tager vs Tsubaki was a damn nightmare but with the change to IB and a DP that's no longer projectile makes me think this match up should be more even if not in Tsubaki's favor now. Bang - Still annoying as hell but less... retarded.

Meh, people will look at Tsubaki's improved damage and say that she's a better character now because of it but it's mostly due to 5D and how we can actually charge while still be in position to continue the pressure that really makes the difference, before we had to choose between the two at any given time. The whole motto of "stay close and don't let em get away" for every other closed ranged pressure character now applies to Tsubaki and it's a beautiful thing.